*Official* Shiny Things club - Part 2

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FrostWurm

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i would be more concerned about whether i still have a job after the holiday :s13: Some might also be concerned that this means that their peers will get promoted while don't, but these are the small concerns of cubicle dwellers...

People may stop work for various reasons, including the birth of a newborn, health issues, further studies, or to pursue other interests. Life is not all about money you know :D
 

Hellos!

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Hi everyone

I would like some advise on the allocation of portfolio and have a couple of questions as well.


Points to note
1) please do not offer topping up of cpf as an option
2) no planned big money purchase in the near future (25yo this yr)
3) investment horizon of 7yr to end of life
4) i am willing to take risk

The below are the allocation of my portfolio.

I am intending to achieve 80-20 rule. However, due to the fact that i have purchase ssb first, the allocation is far from attaining the rule.

I am trying to add more stocks as investment instead of ssb

Stocks (56%)

73% sgd

27% usd

Should i have stocks of other currency or should i hold more of any of the 2 above?

Ssb (33%)

I have purchased ssb for the nov 2015 issue with no intention to withdraw unless required.

It will mature in 2025 which is why i have set the investment horizon of minimum 7yrs.

Portfolio will be changed depending on the situation and options available at the time of maturity

Cash (11%)

They are in dbs multiplier earning 1.55% 2 criteria or 1.85% when there are dividends / interest from ssb.

Kindly advise if i should hold on to the cash or convert them to stocks or ssb?

If it is the latter, i will be holding them as an emergency fund instead of an investment.

Please let me know if any other details is required.

Sorry for the wall of text and thanks in advance.
 

kingboonz

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Hi guys. Would like to ask about my allocation of SGD $500,000 to IWDA.

In view that a recession is likely to be soon (the bears are sounding their drums), and also understanding that I am unable to time the market, how should I split up my money to invest into IWDA?

1. Should I do it in 1 shot? (500,000 worth of IWDA instantly?)
2. Should I split it up into X no of tranches of equal size over Y no of years?
3. Should I split my tranches based on the market price right now? (If high buy less, if low buy more?)

4. If I were to split up into tranches (dollar cost averaging), what should I do with the idle cash meanwhile to keep the cash working for me?
5. Should I hold my cash in USD or SGD?

My $500,000 investment horizon is for life. Should be able to ride out most volatility. But I expect a good buy-in price too, as a hedge against shock. (I hope IWDA doesn't end up like Japan markets which never recovered from ATH).
 
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doody_

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Some calculations for discussion.

SCB charges a minimum brokerage of USD10.70 (with GST).
SCB priority charges a brokerage of 0.2% (+ 7% GST), or an equivalent of 0.214% on your total trade size.

IB has a min charge of USD10/month, unless you have more than USD100k with them.
IB charges 0.08%, or a minimum of USD1.70 per trade.

Currently XE.com's quoted exchange rate is 1.36672, vs SCB's 1.375521. As I can't find IB's exchange rate, I assume it's same as XE.com which is taken as the best possible rate.

For a USD1000 trade with SCB, it costs USD1010.70 = SGD1390.24
For a USD1000 trade with SCB priority, it costs USD1002.14 = SGD1378.46
For a USD1000 trade with IB and <100k, it costs USD1010 = SGD1380.39
For a USD1000 trade with IB and >100k, it costs USD1001.70 = SGD1369.04

If you don't have SCB priority, it's likely you don't have 100k in IB as well. That makes SCB more expensive by SGD10.

If you have SCB priority, you might not have 100k in IB. Don't forget the 100k in IB is purely made up of overseas stocks, as you can't buy SGX on IB. In this case, SCB priority is cheaper by SGD2.

From what I see, most people would be better off with SCB. IB is more expensive by less than 1%.
 

BBCWatcher

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From what I see, most people would be better off with SCB. IB is more expensive by less than 1%.
How do you figure that? Your own math suggests that Standard Chartered is only ever less expensive (and only very slightly, with the specific scenario you outlined of US$1,000) when you’re a Standard Chartered Priority Banking customer, which requires S$200,000 minimum with Standard Chartered. That’s a lot more than IB’s US$100,000 to avoid monthly minimum commissions.
 

havetheveryfun

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Some calculations for discussion.

SCB charges a minimum brokerage of USD10.70 (with GST).
SCB priority charges a brokerage of 0.2% (+ 7% GST), or an equivalent of 0.214% on your total trade size.

IB has a min charge of USD10/month, unless you have more than USD100k with them.
IB charges 0.08%, or a minimum of USD1.70 per trade.

Currently XE.com's quoted exchange rate is 1.36672, vs SCB's 1.375521. As I can't find IB's exchange rate, I assume it's same as XE.com which is taken as the best possible rate.

For a USD1000 trade with SCB, it costs USD1010.70 = SGD1390.24
For a USD1000 trade with SCB priority, it costs USD1002.14 = SGD1378.46
For a USD1000 trade with IB and <100k, it costs USD1010 = SGD1380.39
For a USD1000 trade with IB and >100k, it costs USD1001.70 = SGD1369.04

If you don't have SCB priority, it's likely you don't have 100k in IB as well. That makes SCB more expensive by SGD10.

If you have SCB priority, you might not have 100k in IB. Don't forget the 100k in IB is purely made up of overseas stocks, as you can't buy SGX on IB. In this case, SCB priority is cheaper by SGD2.

From what I see, most people would be better off with SCB. IB is more expensive by less than 1%.

if u ask me, theres not really a big difference between SCB priority or IB if you are able to meet their criteria.

Just that it may be easier for some to hit 100k in IB compared to SCB priority which needs double of that amount.
 

limster

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if u ask me, theres not really a big difference between SCB priority or IB if you are able to meet their criteria.

Just that it may be easier for some to hit 100k in IB compared to SCB priority which needs double of that amount.

US$100k vs S$200k. For some, SCB PB might be easier to reach, especially if they have some STI ETF.

SCB $200k includes money in savings account/ local shares.

I'm also finding their USD Debit Mastercard very useful for online purchases.
 

FrostWurm

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How do you figure that? Your own math suggests that Standard Chartered is only ever less expensive (and only very slightly, with the specific scenario you outlined of US$1,000) when you’re a Standard Chartered Priority Banking customer, which requires S$200,000 minimum with Standard Chartered. That’s a lot more than IB’s US$100,000 to avoid monthly minimum commissions.

Hi,

If I were to stop work for a year to pursue further studies, would it still make sense to start trading with IB in the first place?
 

BBCWatcher

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US$100k vs S$200k. For some, SCB PB might be easier to reach, especially if they have some STI ETF. SCB $200k includes money in savings account/ local shares.
But to do that you’d have to allocate >>50% to Singapore-based stocks, which would be imprudent.

I'm also finding their USD Debit Mastercard very useful for online purchases.
OK, but that’s a possible reason to have a minor relationship with Standard Chartered (along with relationships with any other financial institutions and brokers you wish), not a S$200K+ one.
 

makav31i

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But to do that you’d have to allocate >>50% to Singapore-based stocks, which would be imprudent.

I would love to see how you calculate that you need to have more than 50% in Singapore based stocks...

You can have zero Singapore-based stocks to have S$200k with the bank...
 

doody_

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How do you figure that? Your own math suggests that Standard Chartered is only ever less expensive (and only very slightly, with the specific scenario you outlined of US$1,000) when you’re a Standard Chartered Priority Banking customer, which requires S$200,000 minimum with Standard Chartered. That’s a lot more than IB’s US$100,000 to avoid monthly minimum commissions.

If someone were to follow the suggestion here on portfolio allocation, a typical allocation would be 70% stocks 30% bonds for a 40 year old. 35% = 100k USD which makes the SG portion 186k USD or 250k SGD. This person would have qualified for SCB priority long ago before being eligible for reduced IB commissions.
 

BBCWatcher

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If someone were to follow the suggestion here on portfolio allocation, a typical allocation would be 70% stocks 30% bonds for a 40 year old.
80:20 is the more popular conventional wisdom.

35% = 100k USD which makes the SG portion 186k USD or 250k SGD.
No, you’ve got several problems there:

1. The stock allocation is a bit too low for a 40 year old, as mentioned;
2. The stock allocation ought not be split 50-50 local/global. It ought to be more global (views differ on this, but if you split only stocks exactly 50-50 you’re actually well over the 50-50 total portfolio split that some people favor);
3. It’s reasonable to forecast that local stocks will have a lower long-term average total yield than global stocks;
4. Standard Chartered isn’t going to be the home for your SSB or CPF assets, which do count toward your bond allocation — and would prudently represent ALL of your bond allocation at the beginning of an accumulation phase, since SSBs double as emergency reserve.

You’ve also forgotten the sale side costs, I would note. Exactly how you handle those costs is “interesting,” but there are such costs.

And you’ve also picked a rather arbitrary US$1,000/month investment pace. Increase that amount — as would be likely as somebody advances in a career and accumulates wealth — and that alleged S$2 cost advantage disappears and reverses. Decrease that amount and you don’t get to SCB Priority Banking status any time soon, and IB wins the cost contest again. And even if it’s exactly US$1,000/month, you’ve ignored the fact that IB has a cost advantage all along the way until you accumulate enough to get to SCB Priority Banking status. So, in the US$1,000/month scenario, you save a lot on your global stock purchases at IB until you get to SCB Priority Banking, then maybe you save S$2/month until you get to IB’s US$100K clip level, then IB wins again. What does that total journey look like — not just the part in the middle? The total journey is what matters from a cost point of view.

AND you’re also assuming one global stock trade per month (IWDA presumably), but at some point a lot of investors will want to add EIMI to their portfolio mix. That’s highly likely before they get to 6 figures. As soon as they do, IB wins.

There’s also some reasonable concern that you should divide your loyalties across brokers in order to protect against the small but non-zero probability that a specific broker could have impactful financial problems. If you’ve got all stocks at SCB (and eventually some bonds), there’d be that concern. You cannot have all stocks at IB if you’re buying any ES3 (and eventually MBH) and if you’re a resident of Singapore.

And I think you’ve missed IB’s greater opportunities for security lending, if you’re interested in doing that.

SCB *is* clearly relatively attractive for global stocks if you’re below US$100K and your global stock purchases are less frequent than once per month — if you’re “batching up” IWDA purchases, which would be at lower dollar investing levels. Delaying entry has a cost, so you wouldn’t do it at US$1,000/month sort of levels, but you would “batch up” well below that. Also, if SCB Priority Banking is straightforwardly attainable and has other benefits you value besides the occasionally competitive brokerage commission, that might be a stronger argument in favor of SCB.
 
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revhappy

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If someone were to follow the suggestion here on portfolio allocation, a typical allocation would be 70% stocks 30% bonds for a 40 year old. 35% = 100k USD which makes the SG portion 186k USD or 250k SGD. This person would have qualified for SCB priority long ago before being eligible for reduced IB commissions.
CPF is a big part of the bond component, so I would imagine most of the 30% bond allocation will be CPF and you don't need that much bond allocation in SCB.

Sent from Dont Take Any Of My Statment As Investment Advice. Do Your Own Due Diligence. using GAGT
 

doody_

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No worries, I'm not prescribing a correct or definitive way to choose brokers. Just thought it's an interesting exercise to exercise some personal thinking and reasoning, instead of taking what others say for granted.

There's also minimal absolute returns from optimizing when there's not much to optimize. You could only be saving a couple of dollars per month. Convenience of 1 single broker could be more worth it, especially when we already have to remember to purchase the stocks monthly. I used to think it's no big hassle, but recently noticed I'm starting to fall behind from middle of the month to end of the month, and even almost forgot to purchase last month.
 

makav31i

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80:20 is the more popular conventional wisdom.


No, you’ve got several problems there:

1. The stock allocation is a bit too low for a 40 year old, as mentioned;
2. The stock allocation ought not be split 50-50 local/global. It ought to be more global (views differ on this, but if you split only stocks exactly 50-50 you’re actually well over the 50-50 total portfolio split that some people favor);
3. It’s reasonable to forecast that local stocks will have a lower long-term average total yield than global stocks;
4. Standard Chartered isn’t going to be the home for your SSB or CPF assets, which do count toward your bond allocation — and would prudently represent ALL of your bond allocation at the beginning of an accumulation phase, since SSBs double as emergency reserve.

You’ve also forgotten the sale side costs, I would note. Exactly how you handle those costs is “interesting,” but there are such costs.

And you’ve also picked a rather arbitrary US$1,000/month investment pace. Increase that amount — as would be likely as somebody advances in a career and accumulates wealth — and that alleged S$2 cost advantage disappears and reverses. Decrease that amount and you don’t get to SCB Priority Banking status any time soon, and IB wins the cost contest again. And even if it’s exactly US$1,000/month, you’ve ignored the fact that IB has a cost advantage all along the way until you accumulate enough to get to SCB Priority Banking status. So, in the US$1,000/month scenario, you save a lot on your global stock purchases at IB until you get to SCB Priority Banking, then maybe you save S$2/month until you get to IB’s US$100K clip level, then IB wins again. What does that total journey look like — not just the part in the middle? The total journey is what matters from a cost point of view.

AND you’re also assuming one global stock trade per month (IWDA presumably), but at some point a lot of investors will want to add EIMI to their portfolio mix. That’s highly likely before they get to 6 figures. As soon as they do, IB wins.

There’s also some reasonable concern that you should divide your loyalties across brokers in order to protect against the small but non-zero probability that a specific broker could have impactful financial problems. If you’ve got all stocks at SCB (and eventually some bonds), there’d be that concern. You cannot have all stocks at IB if you’re buying any ES3 (and eventually MBH) and if you’re a resident of Singapore.

And I think you’ve missed IB’s greater opportunities for security lending, if you’re interested in doing that.

SCB *is* clearly relatively attractive for global stocks if you’re below US$100K and your global stock purchases are less frequent than once per month — if you’re “batching up” IWDA purchases, which would be at lower dollar investing levels. Delaying entry has a cost, so you wouldn’t do it at US$1,000/month sort of levels, but you would “batch up” well below that. Also, if SCB Priority Banking is straightforwardly attainable and has other benefits you value besides the occasionally competitive brokerage commission, that might be a stronger argument in favor of SCB.

So if a person is going to be purchasing equal amount of shares in ES3/G3B and VWRD/IWDA, it is smart to purchase it using SCB or any other local stock broker and IB?

I thought it is quite straightforward that SCB Priority Banking just requires you to have S$200k with the bank which can be Cash and your investment...

So if you split equally the $200k, you need S$100k or around US$73k... which means that someone will achieve SCB Priority Banking earlier than hitting US$100k....
 

limster

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So if a person is going to be purchasing equal amount of shares in ES3/G3B and VWRD/IWDA, it is smart to purchase it using SCB or any other local stock broker and IB?

I thought it is quite straightforward that SCB Priority Banking just requires you to have S$200k with the bank which can be Cash and your investment...

So if you split equally the $200k, you need S$100k or around US$73k... which means that someone will achieve SCB Priority Banking earlier than hitting US$100k....


BBC is advocating an investment portfolio which very few Singapore investors are following. If you adopt his portfolio, then IB is the best, since it focuses on foreign stocks.

If you adopt Shiny Things' recommended portfolio, then SCB can certainly be a valid option under certain circumstances. For example, you might not have the cash to buy IWDA every month and have to alternate between ES3 and IWDA.

So just be aware that BBC's recommendation is based on his foreign-focused portfolio, and the answer might be different if you are following Shiny Things' portfolio which includes more ES3 and A35/MBH (once the new edition is out, he should include MBH).
 

revhappy

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Should I sell my A35 and buy in more SSB instead

since SSB is more stable and safe
Don't sell what you already bought. There is no guarantee you will be allocated SSB. Any new allocation can be diverted to SSB/MBH, upto you.

Sent from Dont Take Any Of My Statment As Investment Advice. Do Your Own Due Diligence. using GAGT
 

kingboonz

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Are there any bond ETFs with US exposure domiciled in Ireland for the 15% DWT?

Looking for exposure to US treasuries and US corp bonds.

Or am I asking the wrong question? (Are bond ETFs subjected to DWT?)
 
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