*Official* Shiny Things club - Part 2

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swordsly

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There are often questions about using SCB vs IBKR, and what if buying monthly/bimonthly/quarterly... I tried to model the costs of the commonly discussed options in a spreadsheet -- no idea if it will make sense or be useful to anyone else, but here it is:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BqIhbYNJF7VJbtj6PS08Csbyx1s4vs_03Kvh0pPRUCI/edit?usp=sharing

I'm sure someone will point out if there are any glaring errors :s22:

I did find it a bit surprising that while it makes sense to use IBKR over SC if you're intending to buy $700/mth of IWDA on monthly basis, SC is still cheaper up to $1800/mth on quarterly basis. I'm not sure how to weigh the value of clocking in more time-in-market, to decide between investing monthly over bimonthly or quarterly.

(You'll have to make a copy for yourself to plug in your favourite scenario. Click on File -> Make a copy.)

I believe it's 10.70USD and not SGD for SCB comms when dealing with USD-denominated counters?
 

jaykill_92

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Hi Shiny/BBCWatcher,

If I want to build up my IB portfolio as fast as possible to hit the 100k mark, is there a bond ETF that you'll recommend to buy on IB, alongside IWDA / VWRA?

Thanks!
 

BBCWatcher

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I'm not sure how to weigh the value of clocking in more time-in-market, to decide between investing monthly over bimonthly or quarterly.
Pretty straightforwardly. I’d assume a long-term average differential yield of 4%/year, or about 33 basis points of loss per month of delay. So quarterly (S$ Q) versus monthly means:

Q divided by 3 (the monthly equivalent) multiplied by 3 (delay-months: one third is delayed by 2 months, another third by 1 month) multiplied by the average lost yield per month (~33 basis points, adjustable parameter).

I think it’d be nice to add three times per year and two times per year (semiannual) scenarios. Also, I wouldn’t presuppose a 40:40:20 split. I’m not a fan of the 40:40 part, as it happens (the even split between IWDA/VWRA and ES3/G3B — I think that’s too heavy in the latter).

I believe it's 10.70USD and not SGD for SCB comms when dealing with USD-denominated counters?
Correct. Thus if you’re doing virtually anything monthly or more often, in any amount, IB will be lower cost in this comparison.

If I want to build up my IB portfolio as fast as possible to hit the 100k mark, is there a bond ETF that you'll recommend to buy on IB, alongside IWDA / VWRA?
CORP if you want a global, investment grade, corporate bond portfolio.
 

Rknight

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Anybody here listen to finance podcasts ?
Is there any to recommend that would fit
1) Beginner
2) Would want to know what is happening in the financial world
 

MichealScott

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Dear ST/BBCWatcher,

Thank you for all your advices until now. I am just starting my work and starting my first investment. I have a few qns.

1. POSB IS is really the best alternative ? The fee is 0.82% which is really high right?? The recommended fee was only around 0.3%.

2. I am rather young and can afford more risk. What other ETFs should I look into after buying IWDA and MBH???

Thanks!

Sent from Stamford Bridge using GAGT
 

highsulphur

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Say i have a view that there is likely have a recession in the next 12 months (ie into 2020) and want to deploy a lump sum over a period of time. My plan is to spread over 12 months (ie till Sep 2020). Is this period too long but i don't want to buy in too aggressively with the economic outlook not looking too great.

However say if market does plunge, does it make sense to accelerate the buying? Eg i set a target price and buy if it hits or buy every month, whichever comes first.
 

swan02

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U mean dca not lump sum as lump sum suggest u have little to no cash remaining.

Since u have similar thoughts as I.
This is my short term plan.

Start at a low risk asset allocation and lump sum which for me is 20/80. The aim is to beat cash and hope for about 3-4 percent return. As for me, I keep a ratio of 70/30 ratio of A35 to MBH. And a tilt to gold and ssb.

You then increase your equity every year which for me is 5 percent from the sale of SSB followed by the bonds.

I also plan to accelerate equity purchase using shillers cape. I plan to be 80 to 100 percent equity when cape is less than 20.
U can use cape instead of price to guide.


Say i have a view that there is likely have a recession in the next 12 months (ie into 2020) and want to deploy a lump sum over a period of time. My plan is to spread over 12 months (ie till Sep 2020). Is this period too long but i don't want to buy in too aggressively with the economic outlook not looking too great.

However say if market does plunge, does it make sense to accelerate the buying? Eg i set a target price and buy if it hits or buy every month, whichever comes first.
 

cfleee

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I believe it's 10.70USD and not SGD for SCB comms when dealing with USD-denominated counters?

Correct. Thus if you’re doing virtually anything monthly or more often, in any amount, IB will be lower cost in this comparison.

Thanks for spotting that! I took the "$" on the webpage to mean SGD, but the Fees Schedule PDF does make it clear that it's USD 10.70 instead. I think that's fixed now.

Pretty straightforwardly. I’d assume a long-term average differential yield of 4%/year, or about 33 basis points of loss per month of delay. So quarterly (S$ Q) versus monthly means:

Q divided by 3 (the monthly equivalent) multiplied by 3 (delay-months: one third is delayed by 2 months, another third by 1 month) multiplied by the average lost yield per month (~33 basis points, adjustable parameter).

That seems reasonable. I'll see about incorporating that.

I think it’d be nice to add three times per year and two times per year (semiannual) scenarios. Also, I wouldn’t presuppose a 40:40:20 split. I’m not a fan of the 40:40 part, as it happens (the even split between IWDA/VWRA and ES3/G3B — I think that’s too heavy in the latter).

Setting 4 for three times a year, and 6 for twice-yearly should work fine. But it doesn't quite work yet for other not-factor-of-12 schemes like the 5-month Intl/Local/Intl/Local/Bond rotation; I wasn't sure if it's worth complicating the annual total for that.

The split is configurable so it's just a placeholder for people to make a copy and edit it for their preferred scenario.
 

swordsly

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There are often questions about using SCB vs IBKR, and what if buying monthly/bimonthly/quarterly... I tried to model the costs of the commonly discussed options in a spreadsheet -- no idea if it will make sense or be useful to anyone else, but here it is:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BqIhbYNJF7VJbtj6PS08Csbyx1s4vs_03Kvh0pPRUCI/edit?usp=sharing

I'm sure someone will point out if there are any glaring errors :s22:

I did find it a bit surprising that while it makes sense to use IBKR over SC if you're intending to buy $700/mth of IWDA on monthly basis, SC is still cheaper up to $1800/mth on quarterly basis. I'm not sure how to weigh the value of clocking in more time-in-market, to decide between investing monthly over bimonthly or quarterly.

(You'll have to make a copy for yourself to plug in your favourite scenario. Click on File -> Make a copy.)

Also, SCB's forex is way higher than 0.5%
Last I checked, it's around 1%. Someone has been getting around 0.9% consistently.
 

Shiny Things

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My reason behind doing a 66%/33% split between the 2 funds is because I am able to take a higher risk in return for the potential higher returns.

The assumption there is that global shares will continue to outperform Singaporean shares over the next 30 years, which... I don’t think is necessarily true. If we see a relaxation of capital rules on banks, then the Singaporean market (which is heavy on financials) should outperform.

Specifically for IBKR, I just created an account and am looking to start buying into IWDA soon. So all I have to do is transfer SGD into the account, use the IBKR's rate to convert into USD & buy into IWDA? Am I able to set a SI with my bank to deposit a fixed amount of cash every month into IBKR?

1) yes.
2) yes, but you’ll also need to create a recurring instruction on the IBKR side so they know to expect the standing-instruction payment from your bank.

Also, will the balance in the account (after purchase) earn any interest? I also noted a scheme by IBRK where the platform can "lend" other investors my shares. Is this something advisable to push for a higher earnings?
1) Yes, as per IBKR’s “interest and commissions” web page.
2) So yes, this is a thing (it’s called the “stock yield enhancement program”), but it only applies to shares that are listed in the US and Canada, so it won’t matter to you.

Let's say banks are dishing out cheap loans right now to me, what would you recommend to do? What type of bank products would be best to capture the benefit of cheap loan with a decent timeline?

None of the above, dude. Investing using borrowed money is not a good idea. (Especially now: the yield curve is so flat that the traditional “borrow short-term invest long-term” trade has atrocious risk-reward.)

1. What recommended ETFs for investment purely into China shares that is low cost ?

2. What about cheapest ETF for HK stock market ?

Thanks

1) So I’m going to ask you the same thing I ask everyone else who comes in saying “which ETF should I buy if I want ‘China’?”:
Q1: Which “China”? Greater China or mainland China?
Q2: If your answer to Q1 was “mainland China”: A-shares or H-shares? (And if the A-shares, why do you want the thing that costs 10-15% more for exactly the same thing?)

2) I think the default is 2800.HK. There might be some things that are a bip or two cheaper, but 2800 is where the liquidity is.

If I want to build up my IB portfolio as fast as possible to hit the 100k mark, is there a bond ETF that you'll recommend to buy on IB, alongside IWDA / VWRA?

Not really, no. Your portfolio’s not going to grow any faster if you buy two ETFs instead of one, and for most investors I don’t think it’s worth it to take the extra currency risk that comes with overseas bond exposure.

1. POSB IS is really the best alternative ? The fee is 0.82% which is really high right?? The recommended fee was only around 0.3%.

For small investors, yeah, POSB IS is best because it doesn’t have a minimum brokerage fee. For example: OCBC BCIP has a five-buck minimum—which, if you’re investing $200 a month, for example, is 2.5%. That’s a lot.

2. I am rather young and can afford more risk. What other ETFs should I look into after buying IWDA and MBH???

Don’t forget ES3. But anyway, no: a heavy equities tilt (a nice mix of IWDA and ES3) is plenty of risk exposure for a younger person.

Say i have a view that there is likely have a recession in the next 12 months (ie into 2020) and want to deploy a lump sum over a period of time. My plan is to spread over 12 months (ie till Sep 2020). Is this period too long but i don't want to buy in too aggressively with the economic outlook not looking too great.

It’s longer than I’d recommend (I’d usually spread it over 4-6 months) but it’s pretty sensible. As for whether you should accelerate your buying if the market dips... ehh, I dunno. I think it’s better to stick to a schedule, but buying more on a dip is OK.

Can I ask a quick question?

Is this something one can buy independently or you have to go through the bank?

I’m going to reject the premise of your question: why do you want to buy that thing in the first place?

For accumulating ETFs like IWDA and VWRA, the common advice is it's better than the distributing counterparts as it auto reinvests the dividends. Are we assured the full amount will be reinvested? As in it is equal to if we reinvest the dividends from vwrd ourselves? Is there any checks and balances for the process?

...are you asking whether the fund manager is stealing from you? Really?

Anyway, yes, it’s equal to if you reinvested the dividends yourself (if anything it’s cheaper, because having the fund manager reinvest the dividends gives you economies of scale on the transaction costs).

Hello everyone, have been investing based on ST's advice since sep 2015! 4th year soon!

_thumbs-up emoji!_

1) Is it fine if I stick to SCB and not switch to IBKR. I do not have $100k worth of IWDA. Should we only use IBKR if we have $100k worth of shares in IBKR?

Mmm - sure, it’s always fine, but you’ll find your executions and your FX costs are cheaper if you move to IBKR. If you’re doing over $1k a month or so, then it’s definitely cheaper to use Interactive even if you don’t hit the $100k mark.

2) I see that A35 is not actively mentioned but instead changed to ... MBH? Is it fine for me to stick to A35?

Yeah, I changed my preferred ETF for the “local bonds” component to MBH last year. A35 is fine if you already own some, but MBH (which owns corporate bonds instead of government and GLC bonds) gives you a higher yield that more than adequately compensates for the extra volatility.

Is it still a working method to dca given Trump siao lang tweets?

Dollar-cost-averaging works even better when Donny Two Scoops is making the markets more volatile. The point is that by buying a constant dollar amount, you “automatically” buy more shares when they’re cheap (after he tweets) and less shares when they’re expensive (when someone takes away his iPhone).

If one is not able to DCA into IWDA (for whatever reason), what do you think of DCA into Infinity Global Stock Index Fund SGD Class unit trust instead? The ETF and unit trust (via its parent Vanguard® Global Stock Index Fund) track MSCI World Index.
No. God no. Those Infinity Global funds are horrifically expensive - they charge nearly a full percentage point for the privilege of wrapping the Vanguard funds, last I checked. That’s a goddamn ripoff.
 

MichealScott

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Thank you ST for your kind and patient replies...You truly a godsend for starting out investors
 

flowerpalms

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Shiny: whats the direction now for new invester $1000 per month?

I am starting my portfolio at 40 40 20 in Sept so it means
400 g3b (posb rsp)
200 a35 (posb rsp)
400 iwda (scb)

Given the above, is posb rsp monthly
And iwda lump sum every 4 months doable?
Rebalance 1-2 times a year

What should i look out for if i am following the above?

In ur previous post, you mentioned mbh better yield than a35. So i should change my a35 to mbh with scb instead? Pls advise
 

morsematten

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Thank you ST for your kind and patient replies...You truly a godsend for starting out investors

I will have to agree with this. Thanks for providing us with free advice.

Hey ST & senior bros,

If I'm doing buying $1.5k a month into G3B & IWDA, does it make sense for me to buy through POSB IS for G3B & IBKR for IWDA? From what I'm reading, it seems like SCB is cheaper if you're only buying into IWDA bi-montly. I'm a DBS/Vickers customer.
 

Maeda_Toshiie

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I will have to agree with this. Thanks for providing us with free advice.

Hey ST & senior bros,

If I'm doing buying $1.5k a month into G3B & IWDA, does it make sense for me to buy through POSB IS for G3B & IBKR for IWDA? From what I'm reading, it seems like SCB is cheaper if you're only buying into IWDA bi-montly. I'm a DBS/Vickers customer.

You can consider using the DBSV cash upfront for buying local ETFs*.

* I use it myself.
 

morsematten

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You can consider using the DBSV cash upfront for buying local ETFs*.

* I use it myself.

Thanks! If I scale down my investments to $1k, POSB IS will be cheaper at $8.2 vs $10 for Vickers cash upfront.

Any suggestions for $1k bi-monthly purchase into IWDA?
 

creatrixnator

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Above $700, OCBC bcip is cheaper ( assuming you don’t sell ). Not sure if I’m missing anything

Thanks! If I scale down my investments to $1k, POSB IS will be cheaper at $8.2 vs $10 for Vickers cash upfront.

Any suggestions for $1k bi-monthly purchase into IWDA?
 

Maeda_Toshiie

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Thanks! If I scale down my investments to $1k, POSB IS will be cheaper at $8.2 vs $10 for Vickers cash upfront.

Any suggestions for $1k bi-monthly purchase into IWDA?

In this scenario, I think SCB is somewhat cheaper than IBKR even with SCB's fx rates vs IBKR's.



Look, there is no need to overthink the choice a broker. Pick a decently priced one, buy, and then live your life. Remember, most of you are young and your earning power is going up (you are growing your career, right?), so which means that your contributions towards your investments should grow over time. What may be slightly cheaper now may not be as your contributions grow. Furthermore, these transaction fees can be raised (or tbf, reduced too) by the brokerages in the future. Counting the cents of brokerage costs isn't going to make a big difference in the long run. What matter more are recurring costs such as fund expenses (hence the preference for low cost index ETFs).


SCB is custodian, so if your AUM with them hits 200k, you can get priority banking status and not pay any minimum commission, which is a plus. Examine your own current banking relationships and possible future ones to decide which is more appropriate.

The reason I use DBSV for local shares because I keep all my local investments together in CDP. This is my personal preference.


Note that you can transfer securities between a bank/brokerage custodian account to CDP and vice versa (POSB's IS securities cannot be transferred out), subject to a fee.
 
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BBCWatcher

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Can I confirm that this is the one that will distribute dividends, and that if I want an ETF that will reinvest dividends instead like IWDA, I should go for CRPA?
Yes, CRPA is the variant that accumulates dividends, and it's the better choice in your accumulation years/decades. Good catch.
 
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