*Official* Shiny Things club - Part 2

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spadestick

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Question for any expert : MBH is supposed to be a Bond thing, but it seems my little investment (~5k as of now)is losing money in the P/L statement, just a little over $20SGD - I thought bonds are supposed to hold steady? If this is the case, why dont I just do the Singapore Savings Bonds or SGS thing instead?
 

flowerpalms

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We are doing long term investment until retirement

Question for any expert : MBH is supposed to be a Bond thing, but it seems my little investment (~5k as of now)is losing money in the P/L statement, just a little over $20SGD - I thought bonds are supposed to hold steady? If this is the case, why dont I just do the Singapore Savings Bonds or SGS thing instead?
 

havetheveryfun

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Question for any expert : MBH is supposed to be a Bond thing, but it seems my little investment (~5k as of now)is losing money in the P/L statement, just a little over $20SGD - I thought bonds are supposed to hold steady? If this is the case, why dont I just do the Singapore Savings Bonds or SGS thing instead?

yes, u should go do the SSB or SGS thing instead if you cant even take this little bit of fluctuation :s13:

all not bonds are the same and supposed to be 'steady' , just think of hyflux
 

Calpha K

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Anyone knows of any app that can give price alert of IWDA (or other tickers for that matter) when it hits a certain price?

I would think for such service, it must require some form of subscription. Would anyone know if there are apps that might do this for free? (Even if delayed in timing?)
 

Tiger9119

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Anyone knows of any app that can give price alert of IWDA (or other tickers for that matter) when it hits a certain price?

I would think for such service, it must require some form of subscription. Would anyone know if there are apps that might do this for free? (Even if delayed in timing?)

You can download "Webull" app on playstore (android) or app store (iOS).
 

sks888

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Hi all,
I like to know if my investment horizon is 20years.
What you guys will recommend for bonds etf, Idtl or ibtm and why?
I have portfolio for iwda and split 50% mbh/sgbonds 50% Idtl/ibtm.
 

devilution

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Hi ST and BBC.
I have read your ebook and you recommended using limit buy for IWDA.
but the price keep going up and does'nt meet my limit price. Can you share what is the optimal margin to keep to increase my chance of striking my limit price? :s22:
 
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BBCWatcher

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Superficially this looks pretty interesting, but there are a couple concerns:

1. Doesn't FSMOne charge a custody fee for non-Singapore holdings?

2. What's the currency conversion cost?

3. The funds they're offering are not the right ones from a tax point of view. For example, they offer VT, listed on the New York Stock Exchange, which is an excellent, low cost, global stock index fund...for U.S. persons. VWRA, listed in London, is the direct equivalent (and with the same fund manager, Vanguard) that FSMOne should be providing. VT is subject to the U.S. estate tax and to the 30% U.S. dividend withholding tax (for non-U.S. persons resident in Singapore, for the U.S. listed stocks within VT's portfolio that pay dividends). In contrast, VWRA is not subject to the U.S. estate tax, and the dividend tax rate applied is 15% to the same U.S. stocks within its same portfolio.
 

Shiny Things

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Hi all,
I like to know if my investment horizon is 20years.
What you guys will recommend for bonds etf, Idtl or ibtm and why?
I have portfolio for iwda and split 50% mbh/sgbonds 50% Idtl/ibtm.

My first question would be, why are you allocating to USD bonds in the first place?
 

Shiny Things

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Thanks ST and BBC.

Both VAS and VAF seem to distribute dividends. Is there a way to automatically reinvest the dividends (DRPs?) via IBKR?

Nope.

Also, what do you think of MVW vs VAS?

Just use VAS. Equal-weighting amounts to secretly overweighting small-caps and hoping they outperform.

Does this hypothetical portfolio look alright or more hassle than its worth to manage/too overweighted in a particular country or sector?

Yeahhh, that looks fine.

Question for any expert : MBH is supposed to be a Bond thing, but it seems my little investment (~5k as of now)is losing money in the P/L statement, just a little over $20SGD - I thought bonds are supposed to hold steady? If this is the case, why dont I just do the Singapore Savings Bonds or SGS thing instead?

So to be clear, bonds can go up and down in price during their life, just like stocks, as you're finding. They don't lose money as often, or as much, as stocks do; and over the long term they're almost always going to be profitable; but there's no such thing as a guarantee. Even SGS aren't guaranteed - they can go down in price during their life, even if they pay off in full at maturity.

Like anything, the idea of investing long-term is that you can hold on through the ups and downs. You'll have some drawdowns, but they'll come back eventually.

The upside is that a corporate bond fund like MBH gives you a significantly higher yield (so, higher returns) than SSBs. You're trading off the "no losses" feature of SSBs for a higher yield in the long run.

but the price keep going up and does'nt meet my limit price. Can you share what is the optimal margin to keep to increase my chance of striking my limit price? :s22:

Yes. Put your limit price above the current price and you'll generally get filled immediately.

The point is not to squeeze every last penny out of your entry; there's a saying on the desk, "don't be a d*ck for a tick". Just buy it. Put your limit above the current price and get it done.

Noted that SCB is the preferred platform here but would just like to ask why DBSV Cash Upfront loses out to SCB? Its website advertises a 0.12% rate with min $10.

Frankly, it's because SCB was there first. DBSV doesn't really have anything to recommend it over Stanchart; they're going to be the same price unless you're buying huge amounts every month (over six grand).

That aside, I have been using IBKR for VWRA too, is it worth it to shift VWRA to SCB (assuming SCB is platform of choice for E3S) once the total investment amount (E3S+VWRA) is >$200,000 to enjoy preferential banking rates?

No. The reason you use IBKR is that the FX spreads are considerably tighter.
 

sks888

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My first question would be, why are you allocating to USD bonds in the first place?
Hi Shiny thanks for replying. If I'm correct, I think it makes a good negative correlation in portfolio construction, can better withstand portfolio volatility and allows rebalancing easier due to it being heavily traded?
 

dan0099

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Frankly, it's because SCB was there first. DBSV doesn't really have anything to recommend it over Stanchart; they're going to be the same price unless you're buying huge amounts every month (over six grand).

Hi Shiny, appreciate your reply.

Just to clarify, for someone looking to start investments in either DBSV or SCB of <$6,000, both would be equally good? I'm concerned with any differences in terms of hidden charges or fees (e.g. higher fees for selling, dividend charges etc.)

Cheers and have a good weekend ahead
 

Shiny Things

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Hi Shiny thanks for replying. If I'm correct, I think it makes a good negative correlation in portfolio construction, can better withstand portfolio volatility and allows rebalancing easier due to it being heavily traded?

Sure, but you get all of those things with SGD bond funds as well, without having to take on a huge slug of currency risk.

Owning a USD bond fund is only "low volatility" if you think in USD terms. For a Singaporean investor who thinks about the SGD value of their portfolio, a USD bond fund will bounce around all over the place with every blip in the USDSGD FX rate.

Use MBH instead.

Hi Shiny, appreciate your reply.

Just to clarify, for someone looking to start investments in either DBSV or SCB of <$6,000, both would be equally good? I'm concerned with any differences in terms of hidden charges or fees (e.g. higher fees for selling, dividend charges etc.)

Cheers and have a good weekend ahead

Mmm - I'd still use Stanchart. DBSV Cash Upfront has higher fees for selling, which might be annoying further down the road when you start rebalancing.
 

dan0099

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Mmm - I'd still use Stanchart. DBSV Cash Upfront has higher fees for selling, which might be annoying further down the road when you start rebalancing.

Got it, thanks. That's exactly what I was worried about. Will transfer my existing E3S over to SCB then. (Or rather, sell E3S over at POEMS and then buy them back using SCB; the transfer charge over at POEMS is really high.)
 

BBCWatcher

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Owning a USD bond fund is only "low volatility" if you think in USD terms.
Many people do, to some degree anyway. If you enjoy online shopping from U.S. merchants, take vacations or visit family members living in the U.S. or in other U.S. dollarized countries (such as particular Middle Eastern countries with U.S. dollar pegged currencies), or otherwise expect to have some non-trivial U.S. dollar spending, then you might hold a U.S. dollar denominated bond fund, to some degree. "It depends."

DBSV Cash Upfront has higher fees for selling, which might be annoying further down the road when you start rebalancing.
Maybe, but DBS Vickers also supports CDP custodization, and that also means any broker connected with CDP can sell the securities. There are also some potential DBS Multiplier interest benefits associated with DBS Vickers.

You can investigate these factors and see what makes sense in your situation.

Will transfer my existing E3S over to SCB then. (Or rather, sell E3S over at POEMS and then buy them back using SCB; the transfer charge over at POEMS is really high.)
Why would you do that? ES3 at POEMS has zero custody cost, doesn't it? So why incur any cost to move those funds? If you want to start buying more ES3 via Standard Chartered, OK, fair enough, but I missed the good reason for liquidating and moving your current holdings at POEMS....

....Ah, OK, you have some shares of ES3 at DBS Vickers. But there's zero custody charge there, right? It doesn't make sense to me why you'd *sell* those holdings that are already there. I don't think anybody suggested that. For additional shares of ES3, OK, different story maybe. You're not going to sell any of your ES3 holdings until retirement, right? So why incur a double sale charge -- selling them at DBS Vickers now, then selling them again at another broker in retirement? There's also the fact that DBS Vickers, Standard Chartered, or both could change their sales charges some XX years from now when you're retired. All you know now is what their current sales charges are, and that's the only information you have in order to make decisions about where to buy your next shares. Anyway, all of that means you don't worry about the shares you already have bought unless there's an ongoing custody charge that's avoidable. You wouldn't want to incur a double sales charge, right? That doesn't make sense, surely.

You could also look at what the cost would be (if any) to shift your ES3 shares to CDP custodization if they're not already there. There's no need to do that now, though.
 
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sks888

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Owning a USD bond fund is only "low volatility" if you think in USD terms. For a Singaporean investor who thinks about the SGD value of their portfolio, a USD bond fund will bounce around all over the place with every blip in the USDSGD FX rate.

Use MBH instead.

Hi Shiny, when you said 'Owning a USD bond fund is only "low volatility"', does it mean the etf bought with USD or the treasury bond traded in USD, if is the latter, will bndw makes a good candidate to lower FX risk n improve portfolio performance n resilience rather than relying on lower yield of mbh?
 

iceblendedchoc

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Sure, but you get all of those things with SGD bond funds as well, without having to take on a huge slug of currency risk.

Owning a USD bond fund is only "low volatility" if you think in USD terms. For a Singaporean investor who thinks about the SGD value of their portfolio, a USD bond fund will bounce around all over the place with every blip in the USDSGD FX rate.

Use MBH instead.



Mmm - I'd still use Stanchart. DBSV Cash Upfront has higher fees for selling, which might be annoying further down the road when you start rebalancing.

Hi ST, swda expense is lower than iwda and they are invested in the same MSCI world. If tracking error is acceptable for swda, will you advocate to buy swda for the lower expenses?
 

Shiny Things

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Hi Shiny, when you said 'Owning a USD bond fund is only "low volatility"', does it mean the etf bought with USD or the treasury bond traded in USD, if is the latter, will bndw makes a good candidate to lower FX risk n improve portfolio performance n resilience rather than relying on lower yield of mbh?

I think you're missing the point. You are a Singaporean investor; you want to own Singapore dollar bonds.

If you buy an ETF that owns SGD bonds, you have no FX risk.

If you buy an ETF that owns USD bonds, you have risk to the USD/SGD FX rate.

If you buy BNDW, which owns USD and JPY and EUR and and and and... bonds, you have risk to a bunch of FX rates: USD/SGD, SGD/JPY, EUR/SGD, GBP/SGD... and those don't net out! If the SGD strengthens against the rest of the world, which it might do if the MAS decides to fiddle around with FX policy, you're going to lose money.

Just buy MBH.

(And BNDW has a lower yield than MBH.)
 

Shiny Things

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Hi ST, swda expense is lower than iwda and they are invested in the same MSCI world. If tracking error is acceptable for swda, will you advocate to buy swda for the lower expenses?

SWDA is the GBP-denominated share class of IWDA. I don't think they have different expense ratios; where are you getting that from?
 
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