[Mothership] OYK shoot Jamus Lim for the Environmental Tax on Airlines!

[RedEyesFan]

5 days a week, to and fro work. I work nearby so my fare i dont count, i use $2 to simplify 5/7 x365, x$4 = $1k . Very Grossly miscalculated?

Misleading to be more precise.

What you are doing is simply punching numbers on the calculator.
You're not even touching the supply&demand factors of it.

 

[charleslee1989]

They rich that time also pay more tax than you.

Eh...that is the common assumption. Do you ever wonder why some companies give huge donations to charities??? It is not just for profile..

 

[charleslee1989]

That is really a false comparison.
You only work a few times a year?

You can choose not to take a plane if you deemed it too expensive.

So can we expect Durain to GPGT his SIA tickets everytime he travel via plane since he feels that SIA is like the only airline around??

 

[Cobra!]

Eh...that is the common assumption. Do you ever wonder why some companies give huge donations to charities??? It is not just for profile..

arguably they donate means we also no need support those charities. chicken and egg bah.

 

[Prime 13]

The way i see the argument is just ridiculous~ then why dont companies pay all revenue to the government for efficiency? lol suddenly PAP become a benchmark of efficiency for Jamus supporter?

seriously....come on la~ this is just absurd and even more adsurd is the constant defending...that is actually the scarier part.

Dafuq, nao chiu are arguing for all revenue to be giben as tax?
Nope, chiu are nao resorting to strawman argument to attack jamus.

Pap ish not the benchmark of efficiency.

If ask some, letting free market rule then ish most efficient, i.e. let cabin crew get fired and get no pay as determined by market forces.

But since govt and sia decide to be no efficient by go against free market and keep cabin crew and insist on paying them for doing no work, then this instance of working out a way to use tax to redistribute money to them and letting them do work ish more better.

But there ish still inefficiencies as the work done by sia cabin crew may be artificial and not demanded by free market. It ish just better than pay them to do no work. And better if that money ish as much as possible come from sia.

 

[Eggandkaya]

see you guys keep harping on bad timing but cannot explain why it is bad timing other then parroting what oyk said lol.

This environmental tax is perfect timing to force SIA to revamp their operations and force them to generate revenue in more creative ways.

The EV tax received by government can then be used to help those airline workers either still working in SIA or redeployed to other places such as health care and transport ambassadors etc.

PAP INCREASED ELECTRICITY BILLS DURING SUCH A BAD TIMING AND ECONOMIC CRISIS..........

 

[omgwtflol]

Opinion:

I like both OYK and JL. However, I feel that the suggestion made by JL is uncalled for during Covid. Such environment taxes can be considered after this crisis but should not be considered during Covid.

About taxing the wealthy. The wealthy are not wealthy from being stupid. You charge them high fees, they will also not take the flight to nowhere. Basic law of demand.

About elasticity, if the government wants to explore increasing their revenue, can consider increasing tax on addictive products (ciggerette, Alcohol, gambling entrance fee, etc)

End

 

[xdivider]

Opinion:

I like both OYK and JL. However, I feel that the suggestion made by JL is uncalled for during Covid. Such environment taxes can be considered after this crisis but should not be considered during Covid.

About taxing the wealthy. The wealthy are not wealthy from being stupid. You charge them high fees, they will also not take the flight to nowhere. Basic law of demand.

End

its inelastic demand. they wanna show off and eat michellin 5 star. pay 2 times also they will pay. once u rich to this stage, its doing something u can get 10000 likes that interest u, not discount 10%......

 

[pureice]

Dafuq, nao chiu are arguing for all revenue to be giben as tax?
Nope, chiu are nao resorting to strawman argument to attack jamus.

Pap ish not the benchmark of efficiency.

If ask some, letting free market rule then ish most efficient, i.e. let cabin crew get fired and get no pay as determined by market forces.

But since govt and sia decide to be no efficient by go against free market and keep cabin crew and insist on paying them for doing no work, then this instance of working out a way to use tax to redistribute money to them and letting them do work ish more better.

But there ish still inefficiencies as the work done by sia cabin crew may be artificial and not demanded by free market. It ish just better than pay them to do no work. And better if that money ish as much as possible come from sia.

lol ok, i am replying to your previous statement on a better model if gov tax and redistribute, rather than COY directly increase the fees themselves?!

But is ok, if you die die have to defend your WP MP or believe it works so be it~ lol no matter how you wan to warp it around redistribution or efficiency or somesay environment....its just a simple cost addition, leading to a reduce demand and also enhanced uncompetitiveness in the same sector for SIA when the market recovers. But still, i guess you can go to JL facebook and continue to help others decipher the value behind his policies.

 

[batniss]

Opinion:

I like both OYK and JL. However, I feel that the suggestion made by JL is uncalled for during Covid. Such environment taxes can be considered after this crisis but should not be considered during Covid.

About taxing the wealthy. The wealthy are not wealthy from being stupid. You charge them high fees, they will also not take the flight to nowhere. Basic law of demand.

About elasticity, if the government wants to explore increasing their revenue, can consider increasing tax on addictive products (ciggerette, Alcohol, gambling entrance fee, etc)

End

no problem taxing or raising prices for citizens

but have problems with airline? com'on.

i also agree on the taxing on cigarette, alcohol, gambling. All of these are not essentials. Taxing it is fine.

 

[kitsura]

I fully support this initiative. Afterall in the grand scheme of things most of the flights and also most of SQ revenue are from business travelers not vacation goers. If a tax can change their behavior and promote less flying or more direct routes to save the environment it is a good thing.

Even with the current COVID shutdown MNCs are still able to function without flying overseas and i'm sure they save more than this green tax but the entire plane tix and hotel expenses.

For vacation flyers, either you suck up the tax or take bus or cruise if you can't afford to fly.

 

[Prime 13]

lol ok, i am replying to your previous statement on a better model if gov tax and redistribute, rather than COY directly increase the fees themselves?!

But is ok, if you die die have to defend your WP MP or believe it works so be it~ lol no matter how you wan to warp it around redistribution or efficiency or somesay environment....its just a simple cost addition, leading to a reduce demand and also enhanced uncompetitiveness in the same sector for SIA when the market recovers. But still, i guess you can go to JL facebook and continue to help others decipher the value behind his policies.

I ish not a jamus supporter and ish quite neutral in thish regard.

But i can see chiu are quite bitter and refuse to understand what jamus ish saying sho chiu can blind chuirself to the merits of his statements.

Whatever jamus said and what i said, anyone can take and go ask any student or professor of economics and they will verify the logic behind.

There may be other points not yet considered which may supercede and invalidate Jamus's suggestion for tax (e.g. if elasticities and incidences of tax are known and based on those Jamus's tax scheme ish found to be unworkable).

Thish ish huai if chiu listen to jamus's speech he ish actually not outright arguing for his tax. He ish only asking oyk if such a tax ish possible. And he mentioned mechanisms (e.g. the elasticities) to be considered to find out of thish tax ish possible.

But based on the limited points Jamus said so far, it all ish logical arguments. and i can see where he's coming from.

 

[pureice]

I ish not a jamus supporter and ish quite neutral in thish regard.

But i can see chiu are quite bitter and refuse to understand what jamus ish saying sho chiu can blind chuirself to the merits of his statements.

Whatever jamus said and what i said, anyone can take and go ask any student or professor of economics and they will verify the logic behind.

There may be other points not yet considered which may supercede and invalidate Jamus's suggestion for tax (e.g. if elasticities and incidences of tax are known and based on those Jamus's tax scheme ish found to be unworkable).

Thish ish huai if chiu listen to jamus's speech he ish actually not outright arguing for his tax. He ish only asking oyk if such a tax ish possible. And he mentioned mechanisms (e.g. the elasticities) to be considered to find out of thish tax ish possible.

But based on the limited points Jamus said so far, it all ish logical arguments. and i can see where he's coming from.

what should i understand from the merits of his statements??? lol bitter for wad??

i am sorry, i listen to his speech and see his fb posting, i really dont see any merits for SIA or even needing to do a study for such feasibility. Why? because the whole global airline industry is hit, and no gov now in a sane mind will undermine their national carriers competitiveness thru the means of a tax. Esp those with a bigger carbon footprint and bigger domestic market than sg. What elasticities he talking about? unless SIA is the only premium service airline in sg airspace forever. I am sure economics professor knows what is basic law of demand and supply, and of course dead weight causes by tax.

And if he just wan to ask if its possible, tts even stupidier and at the worst possible timing. Does he really speak on the perspective of SIA surviving or the environment surviving? The scary part is not him talking about environment tax, is the timing and the need for him to defend this. Is there really nothing else to ask about?

 

[hyzhenry]

This is a tax. Means only if the plane flies then they need to pay. I don't see how this is 落井下石. If they don't fly then no need to pay.

Sent from HUAWEI LYA-L29 using GAGT

 

[durain]

So can we expect Durain to GPGT his SIA tickets everytime he travel via plane since he feels that SIA is like the only airline around??

I’ve actually been travelling scoot alot. Safety standard of sq, Without the bells and whistles. My family does enjoy travelling thou, that i willingly admit. But as for gpgt, i bo travel biz and first, so nthing to show. I know my place among the titans of edmw. An ant got no quarrel with a boot.

 

[SecretAgent]

Jamus the famous should just shut his mouth up and go warm his cock!

 

[Prime 13]

what should i understand from the merits of his statements??? lol bitter for wad??

i am sorry, i listen to his speech and see his fb posting, i really dont see any merits for SIA or even needing to do a study for such feasibility. Why? because the whole global airline industry is hit, and no gov now in a sane mind will undermine their national carriers competitiveness thru the means of a tax. Esp those with a bigger carbon footprint and bigger domestic market than sg. What elasticities he talking about? unless SIA is the only premium service airline in sg airspace forever. I am sure economics professor knows what is basic law of demand and supply, and of course dead weight causes by tax.

And if he just wan to ask if its possible, tts even stupidier and at the worst possible timing. Does he really speak on the perspective of SIA surviving or the environment surviving? The scary part is not him talking about environment tax, is the timing and the need for him to defend this. Is there really nothing else to ask about?

Economic professor will also tell chiu deadweight loss ish only one side of the story.

The other side ish any goot tax will make the value resulting from the tax (monetary or otherwise) greater than the deadweight loss, therefore resulting in a net gain to ebryone.

On the surface companies donch rike tax because their deadweight loss ish taken from them.

But here ish special situation where large chunk of the tax ish channeled back to somehow SIA to keep them afloat. Which may be possible to cover most if not all or even exceeding their deadweight loss.

And benefits may be also spill over to society at large.

E.g. If SIA keep the revenue and ownself pay the benched cabin crew, it ish useless.

But if govt take the revenue as tax to gib horsepeter, then horsepeter can pay to train and hire cabin crew to be caregivers.

Thish ish value to cabin crew and by extension SIA since their personnel receive additional medical training.
Cabin crew ish paid income subsidized by govt (although ish actually indirectly by SIA).
Horsepeter and by extention society benefit from their services.
Not to mention environmental benefits, which may be for the moment ignored due to economic concerns.

And if true then jamus taking the tiem nao to call thish, ish not throwing rock down the well at SIA, but ish in fact helping SIA and broader society.

 

[pureice]

Economic professor will also tell chiu deadweight loss ish only one side of the story.

The other side ish any goot tax will make the value resulting from the tax (monetary or otherwise) greater than the deadweight loss, therefore resulting in a net gain to ebryone.

On the surface companies donch rike tax because their deadweight loss ish taken from them.

But here ish special situation where large chunk of the tax ish channeled back to somehow SIA to keep them afloat. Which may be possible to cover most if not all or even exceeding their deadweight loss.

And benefits may be also spill over to society at large.

E.g. If SIA keep the revenue and ownself pay the benched cabin crew, it ish useless.

But if govt take the revenue as tax to gib horsepeter, then horsepeter can pay to train and hire cabin crew to be caregivers.

Thish ish value to cabin crew and by extension SIA since their personnel receive additional medical training.
Cabin crew ish paid income subsidized by govt (although ish actually indirectly by SIA).
Horsepeter and by extention society benefit from their services.
Not to mention environmental benefits, which may be for the moment ignored due to economic concerns.

And if true then jamus taking the tiem nao to call thish, ish not throwing rock down the well at SIA, but ish in fact helping SIA and broader society.

Nice la! Means this is the magic bullet all the gov and airlines in the world need to take right now. He must be an economic genius seen only once in decade, since he can overture the laws of demand and supply and also transform dead weight loss with such precision. On a side note, there is no good tax, tax is just tax. A tax on corporation is actually a tax on people inside it. Hope he gets his way, it all be an eye opener for all nations and the industry.

 

[Ec7171]

Economic professor will also tell chiu deadweight loss ish only one side of the story.

The other side ish any goot tax will make the value resulting from the tax (monetary or otherwise) greater than the deadweight loss, therefore resulting in a net gain to ebryone.

On the surface companies donch rike tax because their deadweight loss ish taken from them.

But here ish special situation where large chunk of the tax ish channeled back to somehow SIA to keep them afloat. Which may be possible to cover most if not all or even exceeding their deadweight loss.

And benefits may be also spill over to society at large.

E.g. If SIA keep the revenue and ownself pay the benched cabin crew, it ish useless.

But if govt take the revenue as tax to gib horsepeter, then horsepeter can pay to train and hire cabin crew to be caregivers.

Thish ish value to cabin crew and by extension SIA since their personnel receive additional medical training.
Cabin crew ish paid income subsidized by govt (although ish actually indirectly by SIA).
Horsepeter and by extention society benefit from their services.
Not to mention environmental benefits, which may be for the moment ignored due to economic concerns.

And if true then jamus taking the tiem nao to call thish, ish not throwing rock down the well at SIA, but ish in fact helping SIA and broader society.

Actually what JL wants from the environment tax?

1) reduce the number of ppl taking the nowhere flight? Which is already scrap. No need to talk anymore.
2) at times when we need to improve the demands of our passengers traffic. U wan to bring the price of tickets higher? (it is already higher now due to low demand)
3) how much tax he propose and how much govt can generate from it seriously at 1.5% of our passengers traffic?

Sorry. Priority now is to increase our passenger traffic safety not to decrease it.

 

[Prime 13]

Nice la! Means this is the magic bullet all the gov and airlines in the world need to take right now. He must be an economic genius seen only once in decade, since he can overture the laws of demand and supply and also transform dead weight loss with such precision. On a side note, there is no good tax, tax is just tax. A tax on corporation is actually a tax on people inside it. Hope he gets his way, it all be an eye opener for all nations and the industry.

Pls no strawman ohkays.

Jamus ish not miracle overture the laws of demand and supply and also transform dead weight loss with such precision.

Donch falsely make it seem jamus ish portrayed as such.

In fact Jamus ish himself donch know.

That's huai he ish only suggesting the tax as possibility coz the mechanisms seem sound and feasible at this pt to him.

And reason for taxes ish because they are goot to have.
Taxes are supposed to correct for market failures and market distortion.

E.g. when govt decide die die must retain cabin crew on payroll when under free market conditions they should be fired, then it ish distortion.

And if the cost to retain ish footed by the entity benefiting from the distortion and yet also resulting in certain benefits to society and the entity by virtue of tax system, then that tax ish correcting the distortion somewhat and ish a good tax.

As opposed to if the cost to retain ish footed by country's reserves or other taxpayers.