Roboadvisor: Stashaway vs Syfe

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paradigm paralysis

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Stashawy to 36%? pls wait till they reduced to even much lesser gold , too much le
Unless u r forseeing gold keep rising!?
Currently u r at

Actually, no matter which risk% also is same portion for gold. Gold price now so high. Doubt it will keep rising.
Im currently at 14%. Find it too safe. That's all. Not sure what to do abt it.

Posted from PCWX using 阻碍梦想的不是现实 而是不去实现
 

dappermen

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Precisely u alrdy knw the gold price shall have a limit somehow.... and
Maybe u shd consider up your lumpsum for Syfe’s pure equity?? (While 14% risk of stashaway is really too safe, i felt there is a limit to how much to your liking when up it to 30odd%)
By the way stock prices in Usa generally dropped by alot this week


I am never a believer of Dca or rsp....

But if stashway’s highest risk willing to drop its gold composition to maybe 7% or lesser (just for a safe buffer during a bad time) then i dont mind up my investment

Btw, they are seriously considering Bitcoin (read their weekly commentary- alwys a hot topic asked), but seriously a virtual coin??!
 

paradigm paralysis

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Precisely u alrdy knw the gold price shall have a limit somehow.... and
Maybe u shd consider up your lumpsum for Syfe*********s pure equity?? (While 14% risk of stashaway is really too safe, i felt there is a limit to how much to your liking when up it to 30odd%)
By the way stock prices in Usa generally dropped by alot this week


I am never a believer of Dca or rsp....

But if stashway*********s highest risk willing to drop its gold composition to maybe 7% or lesser (just for a safe buffer during a bad time) then i dont mind up my investment

Btw, they are seriously considering Bitcoin (read their weekly commentary- alwys a hot topic asked), but seriously a virtual coin??!

Really? Crypto. If they add in crypto then maybe I'll stop. Hahahahah.


Can share why u ain't a believer of DCA? Correct me if I'm wrong cos im really a noob here. I thought it's to spread out the risk?

Posted from PCWX using 阻碍梦想的不是现实 而是不去实现
 

rottingapple

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Really? Crypto. If they add in crypto then maybe I'll stop. Hahahahah.


Can share why u ain't a believer of DCA? Correct me if I'm wrong cos im really a noob here. I thought it's to spread out the risk?

Posted from PCWX using 阻碍梦想的不是现实 而是不去实现

wa if they invest crypto i will stop too. crypto i no confidence.
 

dappermen

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Really? Crypto. If they add in crypto then maybe I'll stop. Hahahahah.


Can share why u ain't a believer of DCA? Correct me if I'm wrong cos im really a noob here. I thought it's to spread out the risk?

Posted from PCWX using 阻ç¢*梦想的ä¸*是现实 而是ä¸*去实现

wa if they invest crypto i will stop too. crypto i no confidence.
they are planning & considering only, not confirmed! but u shd read their weekly commentary, i followed their fb and youtubes too, your email should rec'd their weekly updates etc too

Crypto? i might or might NOt: NO- if it is me alone buying on my own, if yes, i would have already get it purchased since dont know when
but i m looking fwd to the collaboration of Facebook and temasek holding (not really a crypto but something like a virtual $ - sure approved by MAS)
Btw all cryptos are not monitored by MAS for now
Crypto if it is like a small % eg 5% in a total pOrtfolio - then i will dare to venture (cos no pain no gain) i dont mind getting Chi's digital currencies in future!
Plan it as a whole big pic mah

just like i mentioned earlier my sg income of Stashawy sucks big time after 1yr+ (dont blame it on the covid, cos 危机就是商机/机会) , i did proposed how long are they gonna depend just on "sg-income" etfs ?? (they again promised to look into it)
previously when they launched it they wanna do MORE on Reits (but not at all, Reits wasnt even a large proportion of Sg income, how then do we get "Income" contrast to growth stocks)
learn from SYFE lah, their Reits+ are purchasing into Real stocks of Reits, not ETFs of reits-related if not branch out the income out of Singapore then , these are my suggestions to them before...
i shall recap : my returns for my sg income (stashaway) til now coming to 1yr 1quarter soon : the returns is not even 2%
(partially due to a limit in the Reit components too, too much safe items eg Bond etfs)


I did explain b4 why i am never an RSP or DCA Lover, cos diff pp has diff priorities and commitments and not all has the luxury of stable income at all times too (i understood why some dont dare to even cough out a bit just to test on Robos) so may not have $ at a regular timing (although could do it quarterly)
theoretically it of cos "spread risks" , conceptually there is no fault with it:
(esp as a firm believer that we can never time the market)
Can never time doesnt mean = we r blind till we cannot "See" the mkt movement
We can clearly see that Equities or Reits (on the whole) are moving up (be it slowly or just marginal progressing only) now....so u know for sure prices are getting bit by bit more expensive (although u wonnt know when it will drop by Alot, of cos it will drop by abit is fine)
So be it u keep buying u r buying bit by bit into a much higher price (some platform charges u too eg FSM to RSP into some funds /etfs, if u r not purely talking about robos) , yes there is no better option to earn even more Interest rates elsewhere, so u have to ask yourself , is it worth keeping it in a bank/FD for that low interests or u can do something about it?
cos DCA/RSP Amt by a "big" investor can range widely compare to the amount a "small" investor could afford...
So since i m not a big player , i rather not (esp if the portfolio is likely to be USD/HKD related , not in my home currency)+ i dont have a fixed stream of income coming in like some of u
So , shall wait for there is a chance then i Lumpsum again : 来日方长!
everytime, and everywhere there bound to be opportunities, for u to ride, miss the boat, take the other one
i believe in , once i believe in the potential of something, it must be something that will bring about growth*, so nothing wrong to Lumpsum it again
btw, conversely, if u see the "mkt" is tumbling down, u can never time it, u can never know how low will it go, then what shd u do? DcA it ! cos u never know how low, so u DcA to spread it and somehow u still get to ride onto the trend (cos the stock must be something having strong fundamentals and potential)
DcA when it is downtrend, i can understand!


* growth: those i believe in - i know they will not grow for just 0.1% , they must hve some good fundamentals ....so u definitely wanna grab them Fast , but what if they dropped abit ?? eventually they are still good, since it is good , who cares about the sales/discounts or cheaper pricing it is gonna offer later???? eg u know all IT or hifi prices surely will drop after sometime, but u just love this particular item , and u want it to be in your living rm, u wanna to own it asap, & u will never know that it will fetch an antique price later......just own it first why bother to bit by bit to purchase it at a more expensive price mthly?
theories are still theories, u can believe in them conceptually, but when it comes to realities, it is back to real life although many will say Robos are not affected by human brain & emotions


allow me to quote someone 's style of speaking, do u know how the Rich get richer ? actually Most is one shot throw in funds to buy big amount of a particular stocks and earn big bucks (this is hw the reality work)
I seriously dont think they DCA/RSP mthly faithfully and pray hard for it........


Sorry too lengthy! i m Also learning too!!!!!!!
 
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blurpandasg2014

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Stashawy to 36%? pls wait till they reduced to even much lesser gold , too much le
Unless u r forseeing gold keep rising!?
Currently u r at which level , since when? U find the returns too little?!!





Blurpanda, i learnt my lesson from stashaway’s sg income portfolio, they bought all Etfs of reits and things related to sg (for income amassing)
Note: my pf return is not even more than a 2% after a yr+
But stashawy promised to takeup some suggestions to improve this, but not sure how long does it takes?? patience running low....

If i m getting Reits, of cos if u r very free and has a crystal ball that can beat them, pls buy on your own stocks related to reits

I will never bother to get etf of Reits based on the lesson mentioned abv!
Btw dont your broker charge a fee when transacting? Even sgx charges too or is it embedded in your etf alrdy?
SGX charges buy and sell fees when u buy this REIT ETF from stock market. This REIT ETF tracks the FTSE EPRA Nareit Asia ex Japan REITs 10% Capped Index


The reit manager will automatically do balancing, so it's so called 1x fee for buy, 1x fee for sell.
 

dappermen

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yes, i roughly know that
anyway , for those who wish to see how a sg income incld "Reits" components performed: u can click onto my stashaway Sg income pics o:
time-wt returns (u can clearly see that Sg equity is not doing fine or it reflects how well stashaway been performinng for more than a yr ago?) the Reits returns are terrifying too (even sg's!!! less than 2% return after so long??? my own stock purchase of Reits is so much better, the biggest diffce is Stashway purchases ETFs of Reits instead)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18m1vcWn0HxKyUwdBBDU7GBP4vGg2poUW/view?usp=sharing

Curr wtge /composition (can u view ?): so little of Reits (but initially when they launch Sg income, it is claimed to be much more) now why so little?cos they do not see hope in Reits
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NBOWUp0z-1rVgRDS0J0ZU4_Vn7aipZ6j/view?usp=sharing
 

Kojo0403

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yes, i roughly know that
anyway , for those who wish to see how a sg income incld "Reits" components performed: u can click onto my stashaway Sg income pics o:
time-wt returns (u can clearly see that Sg equity is not doing fine or it reflects how well stashaway been performinng for more than a yr ago?) the Reits returns are terrifying too (even sg's!!! less than 2% return after so long??? my own stock purchase of Reits is so much better, the biggest diffce is Stashway purchases ETFs of Reits instead)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18m1vcWn0HxKyUwdBBDU7GBP4vGg2poUW/view?usp=sharing

Curr wtge /composition (can u view ?): so little of Reits (but initially when they launch Sg income, it is claimed to be much more) now why so little?cos they do not see hope in Reits
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NBOWUp0z-1rVgRDS0J0ZU4_Vn7aipZ6j/view?usp=sharing

I do agree that charging 0.80% is a bit too high for a portfolio that has 50% allocated into Bond ETFs. Ideally they should charge 0.40% or below so that the dividend pay-out is not badly affected.

Nonetheless, I think even for its income portfolio, it should not be viewed based on 12-month returns.. given that it has STI and REITs component, short-term volatility is expected and we are already seeing rotation/ recovery in them.

I would think that Income Portfolio is good if you have a budget of $20k and below. Anything higher, it is better for you to buy directly from SGX those ETFs instead and earn 0.80% yield pick up yearly. The counters are fairly liquid hence once-off transaction cost should not impact your returns too much.

Alternatively, you can use Stashaway to build up your funds.. once its $10k - $20k, slowly liquidate and buy the REITs, Bonds and STI ETF from SGX directly. Though they state minimum deposit $10,000 for Income Portfolio, you could actually invest as low as $100 monthly into it.
 

Kojo0403

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Does it make more sense to buy syfe reit + or REIT etf like Nikko am STC Reit direct from stock market?

If invest $10,000 lump sum; the fees payable:

Syfe: $65/yr
Direct from SGX: Buy ~$32, sell ~$32 (no other charges)

Both dividend payouts are rather similar

Go with ETF. MAS regulated and subjected to SGX listing rule.
At its current AUM, unlikely it will be delisted too.

Personally I would advocate REITs+ for one who is looking to RSP small sum into Singapore RETs. Once the holding is large enough, go for CLR or CFA.
 

dappermen

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I do agree that charging 0.80% is a bit too high for a portfolio that has 50% allocated into Bond ETFs. Ideally they should charge 0.40% or below so that the dividend pay-out is not badly affected.

in fact end last yr or last quarter, alredy seen sharp recovery clearly but totally not reflected in Sg income of stashaway, yes my PF with sg income is indeed more than 10K, but the "Returns" is..... (coming to 1yr 1/4 soon)
initially they didnt launch it with more than 55% of bonds too
and i have not even liquidate it at all despite holding it since the day of Launch, even so, the returns are a joke honestly
it is performance wasnt amazing at all
my purchase into Reit+ syfe in end dec was amazing
for an investor to buy your products, u need to show results ( esp it is more than a year)
if i would to take a less than 2% return after a yr+ (i should have placed it onto Singlife or some FDs or some bonds /ETFs which would definitely pay more than 2% a year ago and no risk)
this is truly a joke loh
no1 is asking stashaway Sg income to beat Syfe Reit+ currently, but it is a joke that they cannot even reward me More than a Singlife /FDs
Which investors place or open an account for less than a 2%
My Maybank FDs placement in July 2020(in the midst of **) is more than 2% p.a by the way (be it i have never bought Sg income stashaway thinking to liquidate it in 1 yr, it has to be a midterm or longer eg 3yr) i placed the FD for 3yrs too
Honestly even a 2% is too low! Might as well place into a Cash mgt eg Cash+ by Syfe or Endowus , the returns is definitely more than 1.75% p.a....even my Temasek retail bonds and sg saving bods gives a retur of about 2.5-2.7% p.a

Nonetheless, I think even for its income portfolio, it should not be viewed based on 12-month returns.. given that it has STI and REITs component, short-term volatility is expected and we are already seeing rotation/ recovery in them.


I would think that Income Portfolio is good if you have a budget of $20k and below. Anything higher, it is better for you to buy directly from SGX those ETFs instead and earn 0.80% yield pick up yearly. The counters are fairly liquid hence once-off transaction cost should not impact your returns too much.

Alternatively, you can use Stashaway to build up your funds.. once its $10k - $20k, slowly liquidate and buy the REITs, Bonds and STI ETF from SGX directly. Though they state minimum deposit $10,000 for Income Portfolio, you could actually invest as low as $100 monthly into it.
 
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proton_cannon

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Syfe is setup by Dhruv Arora, a very intelligent person who graduated from one of the most elite university in the world, the Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay

Stashaway is co founded by Michele Ferrario, who got his MBA from Columbia Business School.
 

gold_eagle36

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https://www.syfe.com/global-ari

2020 bad year for syfe lei. Underperform index equivalent for 15% and 25% badly. How will they turn the tide if they only hold equities and bonds, which are relatively similar to index.

Do they weight heavily to certain sectors for alpha ?
They protected the funds during the "correction" in mar 20 slightly but failed to go back in to reap the upside on time.
 

AhSlack92

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If i would want to DCA weekly into Syfe equity100 & REIT.. which is the supposedly ‘better’ day of the week to do it? Thanks!
 

revhappy

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https://www.syfe.com/global-ari

2020 bad year for syfe lei. Underperform index equivalent for 15% and 25% badly. How will they turn the tide if they only hold equities and bonds, which are relatively similar to index.

Do they weight heavily to certain sectors for alpha ?
They protected the funds during the "correction" in mar 20 slightly but failed to go back in to reap the upside on time.

I have a feeling, their algo calibrated the weights based on back testing. Back testing is always hindsight bias. Future does not work like the past. Which is why I think they failed.
 

Mr. Wood

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https://www.syfe.com/global-ari

2020 bad year for syfe lei. Underperform index equivalent for 15% and 25% badly. How will they turn the tide if they only hold equities and bonds, which are relatively similar to index.

Do they weight heavily to certain sectors for alpha ?
They protected the funds during the "correction" in mar 20 slightly but failed to go back in to reap the upside on time.

at least syfe bothered to put in a comparison and benchmark with S&P. stashaway and endowus gave lotsa excuses.

disclaimer: holding portfolio in both syfe and stashaway.
 

dappermen

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https://www.syfe.com/global-ari

2020 bad year for syfe lei. Underperform index equivalent for 15% and 25% badly. How will they turn the tide if they only hold equities and bonds, which are relatively similar to index.

They protected the funds during the "correction" in mar 20 slightly but failed to go back in to reap the upside on time.

but is there @ least a return in your Syfe's Ari Pf?
so long there is some decent return, shd be not bad too....is it totally in the read?
Stshwy's sg income is worst!
even though i knw buying Etfs or robos are never for the short-run: https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/132019089-post872.html

Someone said i shd be grateful and swallow's stashaway Sg income Pf 's return of 1.5% return after 1 yr 1/4 ......woh (why shd i esp most stocks n Reits have recovered quite alot after Covid)
 

tutonic

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but is there @ least a return in your Syfe's Ari Pf?
so long there is some decent return, shd be not bad too....is it totally in the read?
Stshwy's sg income is worst!
even though i knw buying Etfs or robos are never for the short-run: https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/132019089-post872.html

Someone said i shd be grateful and swallow's stashaway Sg income Pf 's return of 1.5% return after 1 yr 1/4 ......woh (why shd i esp most stocks n Reits have recovered quite alot after Covid)

I don't know why you keep going on and on about Stashaway income portfolio. Everyone and their grandmother know it's bad. So many people move over to Syfe REIT when it launched last year for their local portfolio. So I really don't understand why you stick with it and complain nonstop..
 

Kojo0403

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I don't know why you keep going on and on about Stashaway income portfolio. Everyone and their grandmother know it's bad. So many people move over to Syfe REIT when it launched last year for their local portfolio. So I really don't understand why you stick with it and complain nonstop..

thought the same too.. weird heh
 

dappermen

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I don't know why you keep going on and on about Stashaway income portfolio. Everyone and their grandmother know it's bad. So many people move over to Syfe REIT when it launched last year for their local portfolio. So I really don't understand why you stick with it and complain nonstop..
Discussn on stashawy mah, did i say anything out of topic?? Unless 1 is only allowed to 报喜不报忧


Last yr many moved over to syfe from sg income, u sure? Anyway,last yr i cannot move over even if there is A new syfe, cos mum’s sg income was in deep red then.....


Sharing is for discussion, so long there is a response to my posting i have to reply , what is wrong with it??!
And it is a truth: from real life account.....

Need to highlight to investors, nothing is a bed of roses!
 
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dappermen

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they are planning & considering only, not confirmed! but u shd read their weekly commentary, i followed their fb and youtubes too, your email should rec'd their weekly updates etc too

Crypto? i might or might NOt: NO- if it is me alone buying on my own, if yes, i would have already get it purchased since dont know when
but i m looking fwd to the collaboration of Facebook and temasek holding (not really a crypto but something like a virtual $ - sure approved by MAS)
Btw all cryptos are not monitored by MAS for now
Crypto if it is like a small % eg 5% in a total pOrtfolio - then i will dare to venture (cos no pain no gain) i dont mind getting Chi's digital currencies in future!
Plan it as a whole big pic mah

just like 危机就是商机/机会...

Prev we discussed abt crypto in portfolios or robos w rottingapple and Paradigm

Neh: now some investmt firm (i trust not just blackrock) surely will b doing and imitating


Just like i noticed at sg side, we r alwys bkward, never able to adv faster than rest
And we over at sg failed to hear what customers need instead : https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/ba...d-bitcoin-as-eligible-investment-to-two-funds

Sometimes our mindset also need to change
 
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