Syfe REIT+ Comparison: 100% REIT vs REITs with Risk Mgmt (ended)

[tutonic]

Hi guys,

After reading the forums about SYFE, I have just signed up for it and invested 50/50 into Equity100 & REIT+. I intend to invest based on DCA for long term accumulation.

I would like to ask about the fees involved.

Example, fee = 0.65% P.A

Is the fee calculated based on the total invested amount? Which means, the fees will increase every month as you continuously make a monthly deposit?

50/50 I think a bit too high for SG weightage. Maybe 60/40 would be better, in my opinion.

With regards to the fee, yes. It's 0.65% divided by 12. So 0.05416% of fees charged every month. It is based on average monthly balance. So yes, as you routinely deposit, the monthly fee will get higher.

 

[tutonic]

Updated. Both portfolio dipped quite a bit this week, but 100% REITs still on top.

 

[lzjlee]

But yeah, Equity is definitely going to give better returns in the long run, but the 100% REITs is a good option for people wanting to diversify geographically (even though SG equity/REITs usually move in tandem with US stock market, but still some diversification better than none).

Ur thread is really useful. I am thinking of trying out syfe after reading. Can I ask how come 100% REITs seem to be more popular than 100% equity when equity is going to give better returns in the long run? Other than for diversification.. Do you also have 100% equity for comparison?

 

[Shutterfly]

Ur thread is really useful. I am thinking of trying out syfe after reading. Can I ask how come 100% REITs seem to be more popular than 100% equity when equity is going to give better returns in the long run? Other than for diversification.. Do you also have 100% equity for comparison?

Lower risk.

 

[rottingapple]

actually towards SG reit i have some hesitation. because the shoppings malls are closing down, people are going internet to buy stuffs, wfh also shows office may not be needed as much..

 

[Shutterfly]

actually towards SG reit i have some hesitation. because the shoppings malls are closing down, people are going internet to buy stuffs, wfh also shows office may not be needed as much..

I think people still prefer to dine out... so maybe F&B will take up more shops in the mall in future. Agree on the office.. For companies, they can really save a lot on rental if their productivity not affected with WFH.

 

[lzjlee]

actually towards SG reit i have some hesitation. because the shoppings malls are closing down, people are going internet to buy stuffs, wfh also shows office may not be needed as much..

Ya. I also feel that the outlook for REITs not that good. But the returns like ok based on this thread. Somemore it has been dropping quite abit recently. So I thought it may have bottomed out.

 

[tutonic]

Ur thread is really useful. I am thinking of trying out syfe after reading. Can I ask how come 100% REITs seem to be more popular than 100% equity when equity is going to give better returns in the long run? Other than for diversification.. Do you also have 100% equity for comparison?

The REIT portfolio should only be for diversification purposes. The return pales in comparison to Syfe's 100% Equity or any of the Stashaway's >16% risk portfolios.

One other reason the 100% Equity portfolio might not seem as popular since it isn't talked about a lot online, is because there's nothing to talk about for 100% Equity. The composition is fixed (so no discussion about possible re-balancing or whatever), and it's a somewhat diversified range of equity ETFs (vs just DCA_ing into SPY/IVV) so there's really little reason for further discussion. It's a good equity portfolio that you can DCA daily/weekly at a single yearly fee, so it's a clear cut good product for people with low monthly contribution that wouldn't make it economical to buy directly through a broker account. Some might argue that the 100% Equity portfolio has the edge since you can DCA daily if you feel like it as well at no extra cost, to offset any volatility. But then again, those big equity ETFs that make up the portfolio not as volatile as REITs, so there's no immediate need to do so, unlike the REIT portfolio.

But personally, while I see the appeal, I don't have the 100% Equity portfolio. My main 'Equity' portfolio is the Stashaway 36% one which I've held for more than a year, which isn't technically an equity portfolio since there's still a stupidly high 20% Gold weight in it, but I'm happy with the returns, so I'll just leave them to do their thing. Currently TWR is at 30.27%.

Ya. I also feel that the outlook for REITs not that good. But the returns like ok based on this thread. Somemore it has been dropping quite abit recently. So I thought it may have bottomed out.

With regards to the REIT portfolio, I think ~4% return is something that you can realistically expect. At the bottom of this page, I did a breakdown of all the individual REIT dividends and it's all around 4% per year.

The main idea behind this thread is to see if after enough DCA, is the Managed REIT still even worth it (since by construction, it will have lower returns on average)? Cause when things fall, and the Managed REIT fall a bit, the 100% REIT might fall more. But then again, the 100% REIT might be falling from a higher portfolio value, so not necessarily the case that when things bottom out, the Managed REIT is going to be better, since in the 100% REIT case, you're now going to be buying more REITs at a lower price, and can therefore expect some capital gains from the REIT itself, on top of the dividends each year.

 

[zenify.me]

The REIT portfolio should only be for diversification purposes. The return pales in comparison to Syfe's 100% Equity or any of the Stashaway's >16% risk portfolios.

Do you have any experience how fast fund transfer in/out of Syfe REIT is reflected?

Personal experience from SA is that if I transfer in the amount via paynow before 2PM, it will reflected as processing in SA app after a few hours and be in time for the purchase from NYSE at night. Transfer out seems pretty quick as well.

Considering to place excess funds from my Singlife into Syfe 100% REIT (yes I know they are very different product with Singlife being capital guranteed) if the turnaround time for transfers are comparable. Read that it can take days for transfers to reflect for products such as endowus.

 

[kumokumo]

IMO sreits is now a good substitute for bonds in this current negative bond yield environment. Provides stable and decent returns.

Of course you shouldn't go all bonds and reits, majority of your portfolio should still be equities if you intend to grow your capital.

 

[lzjlee]

The REIT portfolio should only be for diversification purposes. The return pales in comparison to Syfe's 100% Equity or any of the Stashaway's >16% risk portfolios.

One other reason the 100% Equity portfolio might not seem as popular since it isn't talked about a lot online, is because there's nothing to talk about for 100% Equity. The composition is fixed (so no discussion about possible re-balancing or whatever), and it's a somewhat diversified range of equity ETFs (vs just DCA_ing into SPY/IVV) so there's really little reason for further discussion. It's a good equity portfolio that you can DCA daily/weekly at a single yearly fee, so it's a clear cut good product for people with low monthly contribution that wouldn't make it economical to buy directly through a broker account. Some might argue that the 100% Equity portfolio has the edge since you can DCA daily if you feel like it as well at no extra cost, to offset any volatility. But then again, those big equity ETFs that make up the portfolio not as volatile as REITs, so there's no immediate need to do so, unlike the REIT portfolio.

But personally, while I see the appeal, I don't have the 100% Equity portfolio. My main 'Equity' portfolio is the Stashaway 36% one which I've held for more than a year, which isn't technically an equity portfolio since there's still a stupidly high 20% Gold weight in it, but I'm happy with the returns, so I'll just leave them to do their thing. Currently TWR is at 30.27%.



With regards to the REIT portfolio, I think ~4% return is something that you can realistically expect. At the bottom of this page, I did a breakdown of all the individual REIT dividends and it's all around 4% per year.

The main idea behind this thread is to see if after enough DCA, is the Managed REIT still even worth it (since by construction, it will have lower returns on average)? Cause when things fall, and the Managed REIT fall a bit, the 100% REIT might fall more. But then again, the 100% REIT might be falling from a higher portfolio value, so not necessarily the case that when things bottom out, the Managed REIT is going to be better, since in the 100% REIT case, you're now going to be buying more REITs at a lower price, and can therefore expect some capital gains from the REIT itself, on top of the dividends each year.

Thanks! Very insightful.

 

[tutonic]

Do you have any experience how fast fund transfer in/out of Syfe REIT is reflected?

Personal experience from SA is that if I transfer in the amount via paynow before 2PM, it will reflected as processing in SA app after a few hours and be in time for the purchase from NYSE at night. Transfer out seems pretty quick as well.

Considering to place excess funds from my Singlife into Syfe 100% REIT (yes I know they are very different product with Singlife being capital guranteed) if the turnaround time for transfers are comparable. Read that it can take days for transfers to reflect for products such as endowus.

I'm not entirely sure about how fast the transfer out is, but I imagine it shouldn't be too different from transfer in.

For in, after looking through the transaction page in both Syfe portfolios, if transfer in today, they'll buy the REITs tomorrow if it's a trading day. Of course, it'll show up as "bought" after portfolio update tomorrow night; Syfe updates the REIT portfolio twice every day. Once at around 2pm and next at around 7:30-8:30pm.

That's what I notice based on the number of deposits so far. Do note, though, that my transfers are via standing instruction, so it's sent over very early in the day. Maybe there's a time cutoff as well, but I think 11am-12pm should be fine since they're only buying it next business day. For what it's worth, I get the email around the same time from Syfe and stashaway (both around 9am) telling me my funds have been received on days when my own stashaway transfer coincide with these syfe ones.

Thanks! Very insightful.

Glad it helps!

 

[proton_cannon]

until now, syfe cannot use SRS, they fail to get authorities approval? or is there something I need to do to enable SRS for syfe?

 

[s0crates]

Yea they are taking way too long idk why. Same for autowealth as well.

until now, syfe cannot use SRS, they fail to get authorities approval? or is there something I need to do to enable SRS for syfe?

 

[Shutterfly]

Yea they are taking way too long idk why. Same for autowealth as well.

I think they mentioned in one of their videos that the delay is due to the authorities focusing on more important stuff because of Covid.

 

[lzjlee]

It's a good equity portfolio that you can DCA daily/weekly at a single yearly fee

Bro. I planning to do weekly DCA. But I only see lumpsum or monthly deposit when signing up syfe. Is it I need to create multiple portfolios to deposit monthly at different week?

 

[Shutterfly]

Bro. I planning to do weekly DCA. But I only see lumpsum or monthly deposit when signing up syfe. Is it I need to create multiple portfolios to deposit monthly at different week?

Can ignore those. Just transfer in and inform them a deposit has been made.

 

[tutonic]

Can ignore those. Just transfer in and inform them a deposit has been made.

Don't really need to inform them of anything, unlike Stashaway's monthly deposit plan.

Bro. I planning to do weekly DCA. But I only see lumpsum or monthly deposit when signing up syfe. Is it I need to create multiple portfolios to deposit monthly at different week?

The lumpsum and monthly deposit thing in your portfolio are only used to show the projected earnings. So pretty much useless.

For Syfe, as long as all your standing instruction got include the portfolio reference number, can already. Once Syfe get your money, they'll know what to do with it.

If all your standing instructions have your portfolio reference number, they'll deposit into the same portfolio every time.

 

[lzjlee]

Thanks both! I thought that info will be used as payment instruction at the subsequent sign up page. So is just some additional info..

I have made my first deposit via paynow and separately setup standing instruction for subsequent one. Hope will get good returns. Huat ah!

 

[linusz]

Anyone knows when Feb div coming in