Syfe REIT+ Comparison: 100% REIT vs REITs with Risk Mgmt (ended)

[EmPtYsOuLz]

xx xxx Should have withdrew when It iwas up. Greedd

Lol if you're so considered about short term movements perhaps this is not the right instrument for you

 

[BinaryLord]

The whole point of this low-value portfolio comparison thread is to see if the Managed REIT portfolio is worth investing. Based on the results so far, it isn't worth it. You're better off holding just the 100% REITs.

Regarding how much to DCA, it depends on your overall savings amount per month. I usually target the local portfolio to have 30% of my overall portfolio value, since the REITs return aren't fantastic, but it offers a somewhat reliable 4% a year, so not too bad for getting some degree of diversification. The only downside is that REITs are pretty volatile, but that can be partially offset by weekly/daily DCA. Based on the funds available, I think $100 a week sounds good, but that's under the assumption that you have 1.3k for available investment every month. Otherwise, not very wise to over-weight on REITs.

Is the 4% for individual component or overall?

 

[tutonic]

Is the 4% for individual component or overall?

See below for the breakdown I did a while back. You can visit the dividends.sg for the individual dividend payout dates and breakdown for each year.

Yeah, should be able to get ~4% return per annum, once you factor in the dividends (if you look at the past dividend behaviour of the REITs that make up approximately 80% of the portfolio)

C38U gave out 2.85% last year (but that's they consolidated their Capitaland Mall Trust and Commercial Trust into C38U in September 2020)
N2IU gave out 3.35% last year, but previous couple years, it's over 4%
A17U gave out 5.36% last year. Past couple years all over 5%.
M44U gave out 4.11% last year. Past couple years all around 4% or slightly under.
ME8U also same story. 4.24% last year. Past couple years slightly above 4%
AJBU quite low. 2.12% last year. Previous years hovering around 2%
BUOU ~5% last year. Past couple years all close to 5%.
T82U gave out 4.68% last year. Previous years a lot higher at 6+%

These 8 REITs make up 77% of the portfolio. So quite realistic to expect 4% p.a just from dividends alone.

Syfe's REIT portfolio is a pretty decent product. Can DCA as frequently as you like, and no expense ratio (CLR's expense ratio itself is already 0.6%). Fees only get lower the more you build up your portfolio.

 

[tutonic]

Post updated for this week! Both portfolios are still dropping in value, but the Managed REIT one is in the red while the 100% REITs is still in the green.

 

[Perisher]

Interesting thread.

 

[tutonic]

Second update for this week. Both portfolios gained a bit of value this week, but Managed REIT is still in the red, and the gap is widening.

 

[whealthker]

Hello I am completely new to this, so any help or pointers will be greatly appreciated!! May I know where to track/ what’s the “name” I should be looking out for to see how 100% reits is doing? I searched iEdge SREIT Ldr, but there’s PR and TR? Which one is Syfe tracking/ or did I completely got this wrong? Help. Hahahaha thank you!

 

[tutonic]

Hello I am completely new to this, so any help or pointers will be greatly appreciated!! May I know where to track/ what’s the “name” I should be looking out for to see how 100% reits is doing? I searched iEdge SREIT Ldr, but there’s PR and TR? Which one is Syfe tracking/ or did I completely got this wrong? Help. Hahahaha thank you!

This is the one they're tracking.
https://www.sgx.com/indices/products/sreitlsp#Product Information

For what it's worth, PR = Price Return & TR = Total Return.

Price return is just the movement of the REIT/ETF price. Total return is after factoring in the dividends gained. It's just two different ways of evaluating the returns of the REIT, whether you want to include the dividends or not, in the calculation. That's all.

 

[tutonic]

I've made a final $100 deposit into both portfolios today, given the recent dip in the REITs this past week or two. If the 100% REITs portfolio still maintains the lead till end of March or APril, I'm ending the comparison.

I've also updated both portfolios. Both dipped a bit, but 100% REITs still in the lead (as usual).

 

[tutonic]

Update for this week. 100% REITs still leading. Gap widening slightly. Can expect gap to widen even further once the dividends come in, within the next week or so.

 

[dappermen]

Can u do one comparing the syfe core (any of its 3) and Ari (on a diff thread)

I believe syfe’s latest pdt s nothing but its Ari’s duplicate, lol!

 

[Heriophant]

REITS dropping like grapes. Im out. Moving to core portfolio

 

[tutonic]

REITS dropping like grapes. Im out. Moving to core portfolio

Everything also drop. US equities dropping for 3 weeks now. The REIT portfolio shouldn't be the bulk of your overall holdings to begin with anyway.

Since I'm here, might as well update the portfolio. 100% REITs still in the lead, and the lead is getting bigger. The 100% REITs portfolio is still in the green.

 

[Heriophant]

Everything also drop. US equities dropping for 3 weeks now. The REIT portfolio shouldn't be the bulk of your overall holdings to begin with anyway.

Since I'm here, might as well update the portfolio. 100% REITs still in the lead, and the lead is getting bigger. The 100% REITs portfolio is still in the green.

Moving to chinese krane shares/ MSCI

 

[dappermen]

this thread is on Reit

Moving to chinese krane shares/ MSCI

?
sounded mo like a Syfe Core! w duplicATION OF
KraneShares CSI China Internet ETF (Ticker: KWEB) & MSci - iShares MSCI China ETF (MCHI) (both very similr holdgs!)

https://www.syfe.com/magazine/under...ore Understanding Our Core Portfolio Strategy

 

[fraggiepro]

REITS dropping like grapes. Im out. Moving to core portfolio

REITS are equities after all, hence it's not surprising that it's dropping. However, I would still have it in my portfolio as S-Reits are known to be one of the best in the world and also for the dividend purpose. Personally, I will go 50% core, 25% equity and 25% reits and dca accordingly with the market trend.

 

[rabboni]

Hello
Did some basic readings on costs and their make up

Syfe Reits+
Philip sing income etf
Lion Phillip s-reit

any advice on long term hold for dividends ?

 

[tutonic]

Hello
Did some basic readings on costs and their make up

Syfe Reits+
Philip sing income etf
Lion Phillip s-reit

any advice on long term hold for dividends ?

So what's your question? Which of the 3 REIT portfolio to go for? I personally think the Syfe portfolio is more worthwhile. Yes, there is the management fee, but then again, with that single management fee, you can deposit daily, weekly or monthly, at no additional cost. You can expect ~4% a year for dividends for this Syfe 100% REIT portfolio.

REIT prices quite volatile, so I think the option to do daily/weekly deposits is quite good. Furthermore, the ETFs have an expense ratio, while the Syfe one doesn't (since it's buying individual REIT to replicate a REIT ETF).

So overall, Philip Sing Income ETF has 0.7% expense ratio, Lion Philip S-REIT has 0.6% expense ratio, while Syfe has 0.65% management fee, but only Syfe has the option to dca however many times a month you like at no additional cost. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

And this isn't even including the transaction fee for every monthly buy for the 2 REIT ETF.

 

[rabboni]

So what's your question? Which of the 3 REIT portfolio to go for? I personally think the Syfe portfolio is more worthwhile. Yes, there is the management fee, but then again, with that single management fee, you can deposit daily, weekly or monthly, at no additional cost. You can expect ~4% a year for dividends for this Syfe 100% REIT portfolio.

REIT prices quite volatile, so I think the option to do daily/weekly deposits is quite good. Furthermore, the ETFs have an expense ratio, while the Syfe one doesn't (since it's buying individual REIT to replicate a REIT ETF).

So overall, Philip Sing Income ETF has 0.7% expense ratio, Lion Philip S-REIT has 0.6% expense ratio, while Syfe has 0.65% management fee, but only Syfe has the option to dca however many times a month you like at no additional cost. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

And this isn't even including the transaction fee for every monthly buy for the 2 REIT ETF.

Thank you. Sorry didn’t state the question properly but yes you got it .

Comparing syfe’s Management fee and the TER quite similar.
Didn’t count on the commission fee for the other 2 ETFs for each buy.
Thank you.

 

[tutonic]

Thank you. Sorry didn’t state the question properly but yes you got it .

Comparing syfe’s Management fee and the TER quite similar.
Didn’t count on the commission fee for the other 2 ETFs for each buy.
Thank you.

Yeah, and if you're holding for very long term, then Syfe seems like the better option, in my opinion, since their management fee drops to 0.5% after $20k AUM and only 0.4% after 100k (though I don't think anyone in their right mind will hold $100k worth of REITs, but this figure might make sense if you invest in their other products - like Equity100 - since the fees are based on overall portfolio value held with them).

For me, only the 0.5% fee target is the relevant one since I only hold the REIT portfolio with Syfe. My equity portfolio is with Stashaway and IBKR.

But even if the management fees are equivalent to TER, the main difference is the ability to buy daily/weekly (at no additional cost), since REIT really fluctuate a lot in the short term.