New 10Gbps/5Gbps/6Gbps/3Gbps XGS-PON based plans

[Wataru]

What's the negatives of ONR for consumers?

Provider get to poke around your network? They get to see whatever you do? If ONR goes down, everything goes down? Features and upgrades limited? E.g. DNS, WIFI7, 8?

Honestly for majority of home users out there who just want internet access to play their games and watch Youtube etc, ONR + aftermarket wireless router set to AP mode is a very decent, fuss-free setup already. ISPs have been moving towards this setup in recent years as its easier to remotely configure and troubleshoot remotely from backend for the ISPs, since the ONR does routing + DNS + DHCP as well. And these tend to be the most common issues to crop up.

The disadvantages however is that since the ONR does all of this, whatever aftermarket router u bought from asus, tplink, netgear etc will have to be set to AP mode, in order to avoid double NAT (which for certain online applications especially gaming is BAD).

When you set it to AP mode however, many of the fancy features on your aftermarket router like QoS, firewall etc cannot be turned on or used. And often in router mode, the aftermarket router's features are better than what is found on the ONR (very basic)

 

[d3adc3II]

Hmm, I think 10Gbps will be here to stay in one version or another since Ministry of Communications and Information/IMDA already stated the goal to 'Build seamless end-to-end 10 Gbps domestic connectivity within the next 5 years' in the Digital Connectivity Blueprint, not like back in 2016.
https://www.imda.gov.sg/how-we-can-help/digital-connectivity-blueprint

Also since subscription prices have come down to the point where they are on par with previous 1Gbps plans, people will be more willing to switch sooner or later when their existing plans expire.

Like when NBN Fibre Broadband eventually replaced MaxOnline Cable Internet or when the 5G Mobile Network trial ended and became commercially available.

Roger that, good time to up my homelab to 10Gbs since 10Gb used enterprise network stuff are much more affordable now.

For SFF user with limited pcie slots, we even have this option https://www.cnx-software.com/2023/12/01/low-cost-m2-10gbe-network-card/ haha

 

[Henry Ng]

Hmm, I think 10Gbps will be here to stay in one version or another since Ministry of Communications and Information/IMDA already stated the goal to 'Build seamless end-to-end 10 Gbps domestic connectivity within the next 5 years' in the Digital Connectivity Blueprint, not like back in 2016.
https://www.imda.gov.sg/how-we-can-help/digital-connectivity-blueprint

Also since subscription prices have come down to the point where they are on par with previous 1Gbps plans, people will be more willing to switch sooner or later when their existing plans expire.

Like when NBN Fibre Broadband eventually replaced MaxOnline Cable Internet or when the 5G Mobile Network trial ended and became commercially available.

True la. Slowly users will move over to 10Gbps but further price cut is necessary. May be $49 for 10Gbps.

 

[Henry Ng]

Honestly for majority of home users out there who just want internet access to play their games and watch Youtube etc, ONR + aftermarket wireless router set to AP mode is a very decent, fuss-free setup already. ISPs have been moving towards this setup in recent years as its easier to remotely configure and troubleshoot remotely from backend for the ISPs, since the ONR does routing + DNS + DHCP as well. And these tend to be the most common issues to crop up.

The disadvantages however is that since the ONR does all of this, whatever aftermarket router u bought from asus, tplink, netgear etc will have to be set to AP mode, in order to avoid double NAT (which for certain online applications especially gaming is BAD).

When you set it to AP mode however, many of the fancy features on your aftermarket router like QoS, firewall etc cannot be turned on or used. And often in router mode, the aftermarket router's features are better than what is found on the ONR (very basic)

To make the work of ISP easier, most ISP may switch from ONT to ONR to enjoy the benefits.

 

[Wataru]

True la. Slowly users will move over to 10Gbps but further price cut is necessary. May be $49 for 10Gbps.

The biggest killer is the infra cost overall. Especially for NIC and switch.

2.5Gbps RJ45 NIC is found on most new motherboards today (unless very low-end), because the various Realtek and Intel 2.5Gbps NIC chips dont cost that much more than their 1Gbps predecessors. 10Gbps on the other hand is only found on top end motherboards, the cost difference for the 10Gbps NIC chips like Marvel or Intel X550/X710 is still too high to put them everywhere.

Switch-wise, 1Gbps and 2.5Gbps are simple, passive-cooled affairs and their price difference between each other also isn't much. 10Gbps RJ45 however, anything above 5-port will have active cooling with whiny little fans and still have high starting prices anyway. Which is ok in a server room, but not anywhere in my living room

 

[Henry Ng]

The biggest killer is the infra cost overall. Especially for NIC and switch.

2.5Gbps RJ45 NIC is found on most new motherboards today (unless very low-end), because the various Realtek and Intel 2.5Gbps NIC chips dont cost that much more than their 1Gbps predecessors. 10Gbps on the other hand is only found on top end motherboards, the cost difference for the 10Gbps NIC chips like Marvel or Intel X550/X710 is still too high to put them everywhere.

Switch-wise, 1Gbps and 2.5Gbps are simple, passive-cooled affairs and their price difference between each other also isn't much. 10Gbps RJ45 however, anything above 5-port will have active cooling with whiny little fans and still have high starting prices anyway. Which is ok in a server room, but not anywhere in my living room

Yes the cost of hardware is an issue and new technology need lots of money to implement. When Sg want to started to have fibre broadband many years back, we see many cabling works here and there and OpenNet people also visited our internet switch rooms etc etc etc and many things have to be done and it is a big project to have it. Most laptop users like me have no other option and got the Thunderbolt 3 to 10G ethernet adaptor (Marvel). In fact my laptop has 4k UHD OLED touch screen but no LAN card at all. The D-Link 2.5G adaptor is available at just $59 and it is available at Challenger and Gaincity online store and many other stores. See Link below. While the 10G adaptor is available at $339 + delivery + insurance = $351.

https://shopee.sg/product/264848463...MIsayM8MizgwMVmqRmAh2Thw_SEAQYAyABEgKsHfD_BwE

 

[Apparatus]

Yes the cost of hardware is an issue and new technology need lots of money to implement. When Sg want to started to have fibre broadband many years back, we see many cabling works here and there and OpenNet people also visited our internet switch rooms etc etc etc and many things have to be done and it is a big project to have it. Most laptop users like me have no other option and got the Thunderbolt 3 to 10G ethernet adaptor (Marvel). In fact my laptop has 4k UHD OLED touch screen but no LAN card at all. The D-Link 2.5G adaptor is available at just $59 and it is available at Challenger and Gaincity online store and many other stores. See Link below. While the 10G adaptor is available at $339 + delivery + insurance = $351.

https://shopee.sg/product/264848463...MIsayM8MizgwMVmqRmAh2Thw_SEAQYAyABEgKsHfD_BwE

I's more worthwhile to get this as it comes with 10Gbps ethernet + a dock

https://www.amazon.com/OWC-Thunderbolt-Dock-Compatible-Windows/dp/B09RGJJ6RN?th=1

 

[Henry Ng]

Actually most users will not have problem getting the 2.5G adaptor for sure as it is just $59 only.

 

[Henry Ng]

I's more worthwhile to get this as it comes with 10Gbps ethernet + a dock

https://www.amazon.com/OWC-Thunderbolt-Dock-Compatible-Windows/dp/B09RGJJ6RN?th=1

Yes and $10 more only but not in Shopee.

 

[Henry Ng]

This 10Gbps LAN Card is too bulky to be built in to my laptop which is thin la.

 

[Apparatus]

This 10Gbps LAN Card is too bulky to be built in to my laptop which is thin la.

I'm talking of this to use at home

 

[xiaofan]

This 10Gbps LAN Card is too bulky to be built in to my laptop which is thin la.

In the end Thunderbolt 3/4 based external 10Gbe solution (10Gbe adapter only or Thunderbolt dock with 10Gbe adapter) is the way to go as of now for laptops. So it is rather expensive for now.

Google search does show a crazy (and huge) gaming laptop with built-in 10Gbe Ethernet adapter.
https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/tec...gaming-laptop-10gbe-ethernet-and-120hz-screen

 

[xiaofan]

For Mini PCs, there are Mac Mini options with 10Gbe adapter.

There are also other options. The following seems to be a good one with Dual 10G SFP+ and dual USB 4 (Thunderbolt 4 compatible) ports and dual 2.5Gbe ports: Minisforum Mini WorkStation MS-01

https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-ms-01

 

[lobukong]

This 10Gbps LAN Card is too bulky to be built in to my laptop which is thin la.

may I know why need 10G for thin laptop?
If for downloading, the price for adapter can be used to buy a mini-pc?

 

[xiaofan]

may I know why need 10G for thin laptop?
If for downloading, the price for adapter can be used to buy a mini-pc?

One potential use case -- 4k/8k video editing and then transfer the files to/from 10G enabled NAS within the same home network, and then upload to media streaming websites like Youtube/Facebook/etc.

 

[Apparatus]

One potential use case -- 4k/8k video editing and then transfer the files to/from 10G enabled NAS within the same home network, and then upload to media streaming websites like Youtube/Facebook/etc.

Thin laptop (ultraportables) don't have the power (CPU + GPU) to handle 8K video editing. To do that you need a powerful PC or laptop

YT has no issues with 8K videos

You sure Facebook can handle 8K video? I know it can handle 4K video

 

[Wataru]

MyRepublic would like to have a word with you

I just signed up for MR 1Gbps plan with static IP.

Would love to have the 10Gbps plan, but its a case of i want rather than i need 10Gbps with my internet usage pattern.

Also, upgrading the rigs in my place with 10Gbps PCIE NIC + swap my 5-port 2.5Gbps switch to a 5 or 8-port 10Gbps switch to make full use of that 10Gbps plan is quite a hefty expense.

Will see how in 2 years time once this contract is up, maybe the cost of 10Gbps switch and PCIE NIC will have nosedived by then

 

[xiaofan]

Thin laptop (ultraportables) don't have the power (CPU + GPU) to handle 8K video editing. To do that you need a powerful PC or laptop

YT has no issues with 8K videos

You sure Facebook can handle 8K video? I know it can handle 4K video

Actually I was thinking of transcoding to lower resolution /lower bit rate to be used for Youtube/Facebook.

As for 8k video editing, I think Macbook Air M2 is not a good one but you can make do with it.

 

[TanKianW]

Netlink Trust came to survey the fibre TP at my place after signing up the MR 10G static IP plan. If you already have 2 existing ISP fibre coming in (MR 1G and M1 1G for my case), they will install another TP box with 2 more fibre lines. This means that next time you can have 4x different ISP fibre lines coming in! Overkill to the max.​

On-site set-up for reference. Ignore the ugly masking tape room tagging on my patch panel.

 

[commandowolf]

Yes, they got provide weekend installation, both Saturday and Sunday.

The promotion is until 31 Dec 2023, so go down to Starhub to sign up better than do online.

CSO when i called to enquire say starhub HomeHub Ultraspeed promtion until 2 Feb 2024.