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Post 10Gbps Fibre internet -- 25Gbps and 50Gbps

Henry Ng

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so much speed for what:spin::spin::spin::spin::spin:
2.5 Gbps is not much and in fact it is just good to use. 2.5G not more and not less. I am a Starhub Homehub+ Ultra Speed user. Yes i do not think we need 25 Gbps in the next 5 years especially for home user. 10G is good enough. It will not make sense for ISP to upgrade back end equipment again to support 25 Gbps internet service as they just upgrading to 10 Gbps. Since 1G till now, how many years?
 
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Mach3.2

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It depends on what you want.

Every time I upgrade to a new plan, I use it as a chance to learn new things. Now I treat learning home networking as a hobby. It is much cheaper than playing with Hi-Fi or Photography. :ROFLMAO:

S$1000 spent in year 2023, to upgrade some gears to 2.5G.
S$1000 spent so far in year 2024 to upgrade to mix 2.5G/10G stuff. Maybe more to come (missing true WiFi 7 router with 6GHz band and 10G WAN port).
1 camera lens 2-3k liao

good speakers also more expensive

🤣
 

Henry Ng

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I see the initial investment for 25G may be high when it is launched (say in 2028) but down the road it may be acceptable (say in 2030). Usually I will not go for the high end plan when it is first launched.
Based on history, i guess likely 2032 trial only. But no home user will support if too expensive.
 

Mach3.2

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So inconvenient to carry the camera. Better mobile manufacturers have a phone good for taking good photo.
both have their uses, although you're not wrong in saying the smartphones are a lot more convenient.

I'm not having this discussion here, those who know, they already know.

those who don't, just stick to smartphones lah.
 

Henry Ng

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both have their uses, although you're not wrong in saying the smartphones are a lot more convenient.

I'm not having this discussion here, those who know, they already know.

those who don't, just stick to smartphones lah.
But manufacturers should improve on it as not good enough.
 

xiaofan

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Based on history, i guess likely 2032 trial only. But no home user will support if too expensive.

Not so sure what kind of history you use as base.

Just some history here.
https://www.tech.gov.sg/media/technews/history-of-the-internet/

Fibre internet service
1) 2010: 25Mbps/50Mbps/100Mbps/1Gbps plans, M1 1Gbps is at S$399 per month.
https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/tec...ces-new-broadband-plans-new-national-fibre-ne
https://corporate.starhub.com/about...omebroadbandplansfornextgenerationnation.html

2) 2013-->2014, rapid price drop of 1Gbps services. I actually did not know that Singtel was a late comer to 1Gbps plan. MR was the disrupter then.
https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/feature-overview-fastest-fiber-broadband-plans-singapore
CY14-1Gbps-fiber-prices.jpg


3) 2016 --> 10Gbps plan launched by SIngtel/M1/VQ/SI with much lower price than when 1Gbps plans were launched in 2010. It was probably ahead of its time so only Singtel kept the 10Gbps plan until Starhub launched 10Gbps in 2023.

10Gbps plan Launch price --> Singtel/M1 at S$189 per month, SI at S$199 per month, VQ 10Gbps plan at S$218 per month.
https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/tec...ngtels-crazy-fast-10gbps-fiber-broadband-plan
https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/tech-news-now-you-can-sign-m1s-10gbps-fiber-broadband-plan-your-home
https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/fea...s-end-end-10gbps-home-fiber-broadband-service

4) 2023/2024 --> rapid drop of 10Gbps plan pricing.

From the above history, the following is my guess (I would say relatively conservative).
5) 2028 --> initial launch of 25Gbps plan
6) 2030 --> initial launch of 50Gbps plan
7) 2034 -->25Gbps plan pricing or even 50Gbps plan pricing drop to very reasonable level, 10Gbps plan will become the base plan.
 
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xiaofan

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Usually I will be one step (or more) behind.

1) Upgraded from Starhub 16Mbps cable online to Singtel 100Mbps Fibre in Feb 2012 (Singtel Fibre Entertainment+ bundle with Singtel TV Family Starter pack)

2) Got free upgrade to 500Mbps Internet plan along the years (even though out of contract), using my own router (Linksys WRT1900AC) since April 2014 since previous Singtel routers were too bad.

3) Upgrade the Fibre Internet plan to 1Gbps in Sept 2018 (but download Singtel TV plan so total price was actually lower). The reason was that Singtel raised the legacy Fibre Entertainment+ bundle plan pricing.

4) Upgrade to Singtel 5Gbps in August 2024 (downgrade in some areas because the Singtel ZTE F8648P XGS-PON ONR is now difficult to bridge caused by some changes from Singtel side).

Plans in the future
5) upgrade to 10Gbps plan in August 2026 (10Gbps will become the main stream in 2026 or latest in 2028).

6) upgrade to 25Gbps plan in 2032/2034 when it becomes the main stream.
 

Henry Ng

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Usually I will be one step (or more) behind.

1) Upgraded from Starhub 16Mbps cable online to Singtel 100Mbps Fibre in Feb 2012 (Singtel Fibre Entertainment+ bundle with Singtel TV Family Starter pack)

2) Got free upgrade to 500Mbps Internet plan along the years (even though out of contract), using my own router (Linksys WRT1900AC) since April 2014 since previous Singtel routers were too bad.

3) Upgrade the Fibre Internet plan to 1Gbps in Sept 2018 (but download Singtel TV plan so total price was actually lower). The reason was that Singtel raised the legacy Fibre Entertainment+ bundle plan pricing.

4) Upgrade to Singtel 5Gbps in August 2024 (downgrade in some areas because the Singtel ZTE F8648P XGS-PON ONR is now difficult to bridge caused by some changes from Singtel side).

Plans in the future
5) upgrade to 10Gbps plan in August 2026 (10Gbps will become the main stream in 2026 or latest in 2028).

6) upgrade to 25Gbps plan in 2032/2034 when it becomes the main stream.
In Jan 2014 then we started to have 1G internet, in 2023 then SH Trial 10G. So I guess by 2032 Trial and 2033 launch 25G. In 2024 Govt just offered $100 Million grant to help ISP upgrade backend equipment and it is unlikely that within 5 years Govt offer grant again. Unless ISP buy backend equipment for 25 or 50 Gbps now but provision for 10 Gbps use now. Then they can launch earlier a bit. The problem will be price or money. Many people just want cheapest and can surf the internet will do. If it take 5 min to download a big file now and in future it is just 3 min, will you pay $186/mth just to be 2 min faster. Not for me for sure. Now with the SH ONR speed back to normal, user can actually sign 10G at $59 which is cheap. Ultra sports at $65 also good.
 

zhongfu

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also cannot reach such speeds for international traffic, no point really.
how much of your traffic is really international? there's already a pretty solid chunk of bandwidth passing through IX fabrics, and even more through PNIs between ISPs and content providers. much of the content you're consuming is cached or served locally one way or another. and besides, subsea cable capacity is coming up at a pretty brisk clip anyway
 

xiaofan

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In Jan 2014 then we started to have 1G internet, in 2023 then SH Trial 10G. So I guess by 2032 Trial and 2033 launch 25G. In 2024 Govt just offered $100 Million grant to help ISP upgrade backend equipment and it is unlikely that within 5 years Govt offer grant again. Unless ISP buy backend equipment for 25 or 50 Gbps now but provision for 10 Gbps use now. Then they can launch earlier a bit. The problem will be price or money. Many people just want cheapest and can surf the internet will do. If it take 5 min to download a big file now and in future it is just 3 min, will you pay $186/mth just to be 2 min faster. Not for me for sure.

You read wrongly. In 2010 we had 1Gbps internet from Starhub and M1 -- just expensive. In 2014 the price of 1Gbps went down, with MR offered a disruptive pricing.

In 2016 we had 10Gbps and it was not as expensive as 1Gbps in 2010. But then it took another 7/8 years to reach the current maturity level. So 1G to 10G is a big jump.

And if I read it correctly, it is not a big jump for the ISPs when it comes from 10Gbps to 25Gbps or from 25Gbps to 50Gbps. And if FTTR becomes popular, nothing much to worry about from the user side either. And as I mentioned, initial launch price may be on the high side, especially if using FTTR. But then the price will go down. So I guess that it would only be main steam in 2034.

Anyway, since we are all guessing, nothing wrong or right. I did my research and I gave my reasoning.
 

flyingcookies

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https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeNetworking/s/60ea379wBf According to this comment on Reddit, the price of the Nokia 25G-pon OLTs are not that expensive, and this comment was written 254 days ago long before many isps all over the world started launching 25G service. The price can only have gone down by now with economies of scale and with Nokia gearing up to compete with 50G offerings coming soon from Chinese companies. If 25G were really that expensive, there won’t be so many major isps adopting it so early. I believe that the trial service would launch 2026 or 2027 with the price around $100-200 as a niche service at first, only dropping later on.
 

Henry Ng

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https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeNetworking/s/60ea379wBf According to this comment on Reddit, the price of the Nokia 25G-pon OLTs are not that expensive, and this comment was written 254 days ago long before many isps all over the world started launching 25G service. The price can only have gone down by now with economies of scale and with Nokia gearing up to compete with 50G offerings coming soon from Chinese companies. If 25G were really that expensive, there won’t be so many major isps adopting it so early. I believe that the trial service would launch 2026 or 2027 with the price around $100-200 as a niche service at first, only dropping later on.
must wait and see.
 

Henry Ng

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Usually I will be one step (or more) behind.

1) Upgraded from Starhub 16Mbps cable online to Singtel 100Mbps Fibre in Feb 2012 (Singtel Fibre Entertainment+ bundle with Singtel TV Family Starter pack)

2) Got free upgrade to 500Mbps Internet plan along the years (even though out of contract), using my own router (Linksys WRT1900AC) since April 2014 since previous Singtel routers were too bad.

3) Upgrade the Fibre Internet plan to 1Gbps in Sept 2018 (but download Singtel TV plan so total price was actually lower). The reason was that Singtel raised the legacy Fibre Entertainment+ bundle plan pricing.

4) Upgrade to Singtel 5Gbps in August 2024 (downgrade in some areas because the Singtel ZTE F8648P XGS-PON ONR is now difficult to bridge caused by some changes from Singtel side).

Plans in the future
5) upgrade to 10Gbps plan in August 2026 (10Gbps will become the main stream in 2026 or latest in 2028).

6) upgrade to 25Gbps plan in 2032/2034 when it becomes the main stream.
My guess is this time most ISP may be already upgrading backend to be able to support up to 25 or 50 Gbps but never tell us and just provision to 10G for us now. When about to trial then they will tell us. Also possible.
 

CoolRock

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how much of your traffic is really international? there's already a pretty solid chunk of bandwidth passing through IX fabrics, and even more through PNIs between ISPs and content providers. much of the content you're consuming is cached or served locally one way or another. and besides, subsea cable capacity is coming up at a pretty brisk clip anyway

10Gbps hetzner servers in Europe :p

anyway if it's cache/served locally, does a house of 5 and under really need 10Gbps or more?

I rather they provide better solutions to reduce latency rather than to places like China or some parts of Europe.
 

Henry Ng

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10Gbps hetzner servers in Europe :p

anyway if it's cache/served locally, does a house of 5 and under really need 10Gbps or more?

I rather they provide better solutions to reduce latency rather than to places like China or some parts of Europe.

Actually there are better solutions like the underseas cable and the cache locally solution. Honestly most users will not need 10 Gbps internet and that is the reason why at first it is not selling well. After SH bundled the TV contents and dropped price to $88.77/mth then it is selling very well. Now the ONR speed issue has been resolved so many can use ONR which is cheaper so it will sell well especially their sports bundle at $65/mth. Slowly more and more users will sign up 10G plan.
 

flyingcookies

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10Gbps hetzner servers in Europe :p

anyway if it's cache/served locally, does a house of 5 and under really need 10Gbps or more?

I rather they provide better solutions to reduce latency rather than to places like China or some parts of Europe.
The problem is that things like ipv6, better routing, static ip, sfp+ ONU etc. are not as marketable to your average person who knows nothing about networking compared to big flashy speed numbers.
 

BBCWatcher

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What are the benefits of /56 IPv6?
If the ISP is providing you with a public IPv6 address (actually a range of addresses) with a /56 prefix (or even a /58 prefix) that means you have plenty of capacity to assign IPv6 addresses (within your delegated range) to individual devices on your home network. Which means applications running on your devices would typically be able to communicate more easily with remote systems, without relying on as many intermediate systems/proxies. It also means they can directly reach IPv6-only resources which may help improve throughput, responsiveness, and reliability — especially when IPv4-based resources are unreachable or otherwise performing poorly.

There's a potential downside: you may need to take some additional steps to secure a network that supports IPv6, steps that are similar to securing an IPv4 network. But if your security posture is dreadful already it'll still be dreadful with IPv6 added to the mix.
 
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