M1 FIBRE BROADBAND DISCUSSION - Part 2

[Nanonited]

Then probably just go with your plan of getting the ZenWiFi BT10 two-pack (S$12 x 24 = S$288 top-up). Instead of selling two units, just sell one unit (one unit price is usally higher than 50% of the two-pack), say at S$360.

ONT -- ZenWiFi BT10 as main router (10G WAN port)​

ZenWiFi BT10 10G LAN port --> study room LAN port --> 10G wired device (can be for the future if you do not have one now)​

ZenWiFi BT10 1G LAN port --> cheap 1G switch port 1 ( eg: TL-SG105 at S$28.5 from Challenger or less in other place)​

Switch 1G port 2 --> RT-AX55U unit 1​

Switch 1G port 3 --> RT-AX55U unit 2​

Switch 1G port 4 --> RT-AX55U unit 3 (optional)​

Thank you for the tips.

Sorry but my rudimentary understanding may be wrong. Can i not just replace my current main router (Asus AX55) with the Zenwifi? There are LAN cables plugged from my existing main router to the living room lan ports so that the room lan ports are active.

 

[Zylver]

yes

Sent you a PM, please help to take a look. Thanks!

 

[xiaofan]

Thank you for the tips.

Sorry but my rudimentary understanding may be wrong. Can i not just replace my current main router (Asus AX55) with the Zenwifi? There are LAN cables plugged from my existing main router to the living room lan ports so that the room lan ports are active.

You can do that as well, but then no 10G LAN port available to be able to "fully consume the bandwidth".

ONT -- ZenWiFi BT10 as main router (10G WAN port)​

ZenWiFi BT10 10G LAN port --> RT-AX55 Unit 1 as AImesh node (up to 1Gbps)​

ZenWiFi BT10 1G LAN port --> RT-AX55 Unit 2 as AImesh node (up to 1Gbps)
ZenWiFi BT10 wireless --> wireless devices (maybe up to 2Gbps).​

​

Original setup with Asus ZenWiFi BT10 two-pack, no issuses to "fully consume the bandwidth".

ONT -- main ZenWiFi BT10 as main router (10G WAN port)​

Main ZenWiFi BT10 10G LAN port --> second ZenWiFi BT10 as AImesh node (10Gbps Ethernet backhaul)​

Main ZenWiFi BT10 1G LAN port --> 1G wired device​

Second ZenWiFi BT10 10G LAN port --> 10G wired device (up to 6Gbps for M1 6Gbps plan)​

Second ZenWiFi BT10 1G LAN port --> 1G wired device​

Reference: Asus ZenWiFi BT10 spec
https://www.asus.com/sg/networking-...wifi-wifi-systems/asus-zenwifi-bt10/techspec/
I/O Ports

10G WAN/LAN x 1​

10G LAN x 1​

1G WAN/LAN x 1​

USB 3.0 x1​

 

[Nanonited]

You can do that as well, but then no 10G LAN port available to be able to "fully consume the bandwidth".

ONT -- ZenWiFi BT10 as main router (10G WAN port)​

ZenWiFi BT10 10G LAN port --> RT-AX55 Unit 1 as AImesh node (up to 1Gbps)​

ZenWiFi BT10 1G LAN port --> RT-AX55 Unit 2 as AImesh node (up to 1Gbps)​

ZenWiFi BT10 wireless --> wireless devices (maybe up to 2Gbps).​

​

Original setup with Asus ZenWiFi BT10 two-pack, no issuses to "fully consume the bandwidth".

ONT -- main ZenWiFi BT10 as main router (10G WAN port)​

Main ZenWiFi BT10 10G LAN port --> second ZenWiFi BT10 as AImesh node (10Gbps Ethernet backhaul)​

Main ZenWiFi BT10 1G LAN port --> 1G wired device​

Second ZenWiFi BT10 10G LAN port --> 10G wired device (up to 6Gbps for M1 6Gbps plan)​

Second ZenWiFi BT10 1G LAN port --> 1G wired device​

Reference: Asus ZenWiFi BT10 spec
https://www.asus.com/sg/networking-...wifi-wifi-systems/asus-zenwifi-bt10/techspec/
I/O Ports

10G WAN/LAN x 1​

10G LAN x 1​

1G WAN/LAN x 1​

USB 3.0 x1​

Thank you for the breakdown.

looks like i need 2 10G devices to fully utilise bandwidth. If i just have one zen wifi and the other routers are ax55, i cannot fully utilise the bandwidth as even if i plug the 10G LAN port to the study room LAN port, i need a 10G router to utilise the bandwidth in the study room?

i guess the main advantage would be a better main wireless signal however my devices would connect to the AX55 1G signals (since the AX55 in the rooms are broadcasting wireless signals for better connectivity) if i am closer to them in the room which might be pointless.

 

[xiaofan]

Thank you for the breakdown.

looks like i need 2 10G devices to fully utilise bandwidth. If i just have one zen wifi and the other routers are ax55, i cannot fully utilise the bandwidth as even if i plug the 10G LAN port to the study room LAN port, i need a 10G router to utilise the bandwidth in the study room?

i guess the main advantage would be a better main wireless signal however my devices would connect to the AX55 1G signals (since the AX55 in the rooms are broadcasting wireless signals for better connectivity) if i am closer to them in the room which might be pointless.

No matter you go with one ZenWiFi BT10 or two ZenWiFi BT10 nodes, you need one 10G wired device to fully utilize the bandwidth, basically it is practically impossible to just use wireless devices to fully utilize the 6Gbps bandwidth even though it is theoretically possible.

Indeed if you keep the RT-AX55 as mesh node, then your wireless performance in the rooms where RT-AX55 is used may not have improved wireless performance. In that case, you may want to keep both Asus ZenWiFi BT10 nodes if you want to have better wireless performance.

Related to 10G wired device -- 10G network adpters discussion here.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/5gbe-and-beyond-ethernet-adapters.7068236/

Another option is to forget about "fully utilize the bandwidth" and forget about 6GHz band, just go with 2.5G routers. Say sell the Asus ZenWiFi BT10 two-pack and then get two or three units of TP-Link Archer BE230 (each is about S$85 BNIB as per the report here). Wireless performance will be much better than RT-AX55.

 

[dev_stg_prd]

Personally I think the form factor of Archer BE805 (similar to Archer BE800 and Starhub issued EB810v) is actually quite okay, not too bad in reality. Deco BE85, HB810 (Singtel) and HB710 (Starhub/MR) cylinder type may be a bit better.

I quite like RT-AX86U/BE86U type of Asus router with 3 external antenna and with vertifical form factor. I do not quite like but can accept TUF-BE6500 with six external antenna.

The most ugly routers are probably Xiaomi AX3600/AX600/BE7000.

Anyway, I guess each person will have different view of nice versus ugly.

That being said, in general I do not like Asus ZenWiFi line even though many users like their form factor. To me they have quite a bit lower performance than the corresponding normal model at the same price. But now Asus ZenWiFi BQ16 and ZenWiFi BT10 seem to have no corresponding normal model.

I check again the form factor is similar to my AX86U.
It's just that the antenna part is solid and of course it's THICKER la.

 

[xiaofan]

I check again the form factor is similar to my AX86U.
It's just that the antenna part is solid and of course it's THICKER la.

Just wondering which router are you talking about here. Asus RT-AX86U/RT-AX86U Po/RT-BE86U for factor is quite unique and no TP-Link routers have similar form factor.

 

[dev_stg_prd]

Just wondering which router are you talking about here. Asus RT-AX86U/RT-AX86U Po/RT-BE86U for factor is quite unique and no TP-Link routers have similar form factor.

typo

https://www.asus.com/sg/networking-iot-servers/wifi-routers/asus-wifi-routers/rt-ac86u/

 

[xiaofan]

typo

https://www.asus.com/sg/networking-iot-servers/wifi-routers/asus-wifi-routers/rt-ac86u/

I see, that is the same Asus 86 series. It is in fact the start of Asus 86 series. Another popular one is the 88 series.
RT-AC86U is arguably better than RT-AC88U.
RT-AX86U is in general better than RT-AX88U (unless you need many LAN ports)
RT-AX86U Pro (single 2.5G ports) is not as good as RT-AX88U Pro (dual 2.5G ports)
RT-BE86U (single 10G ports, 1GB RAM) is not as good as RT-BE88U (dual 10G ports, 2GB RAM).

RT-AC86U is one of the best WiFi 5 routers out there. Unfortunately Asus has EOLed all the consumer WiFi 5 routers.
https://www.asus.com/event/network/eol-product/

Due to a security bug, Asus provides (probably the last) a FW upate for RT-AC86U along with other high end AC routers (like RT-AC88U and RT-AC5300) in Nov 2024. You can still use it for a while but may have to upgrade a few months down the road.
https://www.asus.com/sg/networking-...rs/rt-ac86u/helpdesk_bios?model2Name=RT-AC86U

ASUS RT-AC86U Firmware version 3.0.0.4.386_51955
Version 3.0.0.4.386_51955
66.64 MB
2024/11/08
1. Strengthened input validation and data processing workflows to further protect information security.
2. Enhanced AiCloud password protection mechanisms, safeguarding against unauthorized access attempts.
3. Enhanced device security through improved buffer handling in connection features.
4. Refined data handling processes, ensuring secure and accurate information management.
5. Enhanced file access control mechanisms, promoting a more secure operating environment.
6. Strengthened certificate protection, providing enhanced data security.

 

[rerear]

RT-AX86U will likely be supported for more years to come. If you are happy with it, no problem to keep using it. I am using it as an AP now behind my OpenWRT main router.

As for the second question, it is up to you.

The effective price of M1 6Gbps plan will be the lowest if you consider the bundled router (say you can keep using the RT-AX86U and then sell the bundled router), if you can get the S$32.90 recontract offer. You can actually use RT-AX86U 2.5G port as WAN port to get higher than >1Gbps WiFi speed in that case, wired speed will still be limited by the 1G LAN ports.

1Gbps recontract at S$24.90 per month is also an okay choice and your RT-AX86U is a good router for 1Gbps and you will not feel the guilty of not able to use the given bandwidth.

You can also wait and then see if there are even better offers, or wait for M1 to upgrade you for free to higher tier plans.

Thanks Bro XF for the breakdown and suggestions!

Great that the AX86U can be relevant for a while still, it is likely I am going to stick with it. Didn't realize that there is that option of using the 2.5G port as WAN, and using WiFi to get higher speeds!

even if I take up the offer of recon + free router; will sell it. More thinking of whether it is a worthwhile gamble, should M1 decide to increase all these plans' prices after contracts end.

 

[xiaofan]

Thanks Bro XF for the breakdown and suggestions!

Great that the AX86U can be relevant for a while still, it is likely I am going to stick with it. Didn't realize that there is that option of using the 2.5G port as WAN, and using WiFi to get higher speeds!

even if I take up the offer of recon + free router; will sell it. More thinking of whether it is a worthwhile gamble, should M1 decide to increase all these plans' prices after contracts end.

1. No need to worry about two years later -- there will be likely better offers from all ISPs at that time.

2. 10G capable router's price are coming down, especially mid-end ones, for example, Starhub issued HB-710 (dual 10G ports, triband BE18000) is selling at S$192 cash and carry. Officially it is only for Starhub users only but the reports say some Starhub shops do not even check. In the end they do not really need to care too much as the price they get from TP-Link is lower than that price.

M1 is selling two-pack Asus ZenWiFi BT10 at S$504 PWP offer (S$21 per month for 24 months), each unit is at S$252, which means that M1 is getting them at lower price.

SIMBA is also selling a lower end D-Link DPN-BE7212GR dual band BE7200 router at S$179, which means they get the price at lower than that.
https://www.dlink.com.sg/product/dpn-be7212gr-be7200-dual-band-10g-wi-fi-7-easymesh-router/

Down the road, the price of 10G capable WiFi 7 routers will go further down. Better WiFi 7 routers at cost effective price will for sure be much more readily available in 2027.

WiFi 8 is scheudled to be available in year 2028 but the initial price may be high --> may need to wait to year 2029/2030 to be popular.

3. Singapore government is pushing for 10Gbps plan to 50% of the households in 2028 and it seems to me the goal may be achivable by the end of 2027.

Likely 10Gbps Fibre broadband bundle with decent 10G capable triband WiFi 7 routers will be at S$30 to S$40 per month range two years later. Just my guess, let's see.

 

[sHrike]

Yes, I have a similar preference, but everyone’s situation and needs are different, so to each their own

My M1 6gbps plan effective cost just drop to $18.74/month. Happy

OMG! i recalculated. My M1 6GBPs plan effective cost is $14.57 hahaha

mainly due to the one time $360 rebate that M1 give me up front and my router sale and provided I will recontract my plan at the 21th month...Woohoo! .

Who has a lower monthly effective cost ?

 

[sHrike]

Called the hotline again today. Told the staff about the $360 rebate offered to other customers. However, he said the best he could offer is $15 rebate monthly for the first 21 months. That means I will have to recontract on the 21st month else I will have to pay $15 more for the last 3 months. Not sure if I should pursue it further or accept it and prepare to pay $45 more if there is no good recontract offer on the 21st month.

M1 have figured out that giving $360 rebate is too much hence they cut to 21 month.. If you renew at 21 month, you gain $45 rebate for nothing

 

[xiaofan]

OMG! i recalculated. My M1 6GBPs plan effective cost is $14.57 hahaha

mainly due to the one time $360 rebate that M1 give me up front and my router sale and provided I will recontract my plan at the 21th month...Woohoo! .

Who has a lower monthly effective cost ?

For those who pay S$32.90 + S$12 top-up = S$44.90 per month for a pair of Asus ZenWiFi BT10, if they sell them at S$720, then the effective price will be.
1) Recontract after 24 months or switch to anther ISP --> S$14.90 per month effective price.
2) Recontract after 21 months --> (S$44.90 x 21 - S$720) / 21 months = S$10.61 per month.

There are people who have sold the units at even higher price (one report is S$770 here), so their effective price will be even lower than yours, even if finishing 24 month of contract.
S$44.90 - S$770/24 = S$12.82 per month effective price.

But I belive the price for Asus ZenWiFi BT10 two-pack will drop further. Maybe next milestone will be S$660 and it may even drop to S$600 in the future.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/asus-zenwifi-bt10-discussion.7067525/page-14

Hit S$700 liao.

@xiaofan, you are right!!!

Next milestone: S$660

Future milestone: S$600 but not so sure when.

 

[sHrike]

For those who pay S$32.90 + S$12 top-up = S$44.90 per month for a pair of Asus ZenWiFi BT10, if they sell them at S$720, then the effective price will be.
1) Recontract after 24 months or switch to anther ISP --> S$14.90 per month effective price.
2) Recontract after 21 months --> (S$44.90 x 21 - S$720) / 21 months = S$10.61 per month.

There are people who have sold the unit at even higher price (one report is S$770 here), so their effective price will be even lower than yours, even if finishing 24 month of contract.
S$44.90 - S$770/24 = S$12.82 per month effective price.

But I belive the price for Asus ZenWiFi BT10 two-pack will drop further. Maybe next milestone will be S$660 and it may even drop to S$600 in the future.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/asus-zenwifi-bt10-discussion.7067525/page-14

can you do a early re-contract to a lower tier plan ? any penalty or costs?

 

[xiaofan]

can you do a early re-contract to a lower tier plan ? any penalty or costs?

No idea. But do not worry about that one.

M1 will get rid of 1Gbps/2.5Gbps plans pretty soon, maybe even M1 3Gbps plan will be gone and then 5Gbps will be the lowest tier plan by then.

Starhub/Singtel/MR/VQ now only offer 3Gbps and above plans to new users. SIMBA only offers 10Gbps plan now. Only M1 and WC still offer GPON based plans and only M1 is still offering 1Gbps plan to new users.

 

[rootbeer]

OMG! i recalculated. My M1 6GBPs plan effective cost is $14.57 hahaha

mainly due to the one time $360 rebate that M1 give me up front and my router sale and provided I will recontract my plan at the 21th month...Woohoo! .

Who has a lower monthly effective cost ?

Mine is $12.90

$32.90 + $12 (BT10) - $32 (selling BT10 at $770, divided over 24 mth)

anyway, anything below $18 is already a very very good price

 

[ichinisan]

Those who are on the 6Gbps plan and using the BE805, may I know what is the WiFi speed you all are getting on your devices for 2.4ghz, 5ghz and 6ghz network?

 

[xiaofan]

Those who are on the 6Gbps plan and using the BE805, may I know what is the WiFi speed you all are getting on your devices for 2.4ghz, 5ghz and 6ghz network?

It depends on the wireless device you are using. In order to have the best speed, you have to use WiFi 7 devices.

As for 2.4GHz, no point to compare the speed due to the interferences. It is better to set the channel bandwidth to 20MHz to have lower peak speed in realty. You should not really rely on 2.4Ghz for your main devices.

@Jurong640 has done quite some testing in the below thread, including SpeedTest results and power measurement. He is using M1 6Gbps service.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...d-deco-wifi-6e-7-mesh-solution.6953682/page-7

I have also done quite some tests as well using Archer BE805 with my Singtel network in the thread, including SpeedTest at close and far range test, using WiFi 7 and WiFi 6 clients. I have also done simple tests of using Archer BE805+HB710 with wireless backhaul (but I cannot test this any more), as well as Archer BE805+EX510 with wireless backhaul.

Two results for your reference. There are more results in the thread.

Just got my Archer BE805 today (S$300 from an M1 user).

Quick SpeedTest using an Acer Swift Go 14 2024 model (Intel Core Ultra 5 125H CPU, Intel BE200NGW based Killer BE1750 WiFi 7 adapter, Windows 11 24H2), 3m away from the Archer BE805 router.

MLO SSID is still slower than 6GHz band alone, but faster than 5GHz band.

Singtel 5Gbps plan.

Very close range, 6GHz SSID.

Speed test, around 1.2m away from BE805, using Samsung Galaxy S24 on WiFi 6E 6Ghz band.

Tested against Campana server.

 

[junjie433]

can you do a early re-contract to a lower tier plan ? any penalty or costs?

Usually need to complete the current plan then can recontract to lower tier plan or will face $$ penalty.