Just curious miw say pro family but why...

[Ec7171]

MIW say pro family want young people come together faster form a family buy house etc.

But realities don't seem to tally with so called policies?

1. Hdb bto forever oversubscribed, getting a q number is like playing lottery. Is all about luck.

2. Even bto is getting very expensive and pls don't bs me say a lot grant. Most people can't even qualify the grant amount of what hdb infographics like to paint it.

Price of resale is even more crazy.

And loan they also damn prudent use MSR capped at 30% income. No reassessment also the HFE. During ballot and key collection, the income sure change leh. 6 months before key collection they will check. If income up, loan amount no up. If income drop, loan amount drop.

The way they determine income for grant and loan also different, very double standard.

For grant, if A work 1 month 5k, jobless 11 months. B earn 3k work every month for 12 months. They will still take it gross income is 8k. And say you only qualify based on 8k tier grant which is very little.

But suddenly come to loan calculation, they will only consider B 3k income and ignore A 5k caz only 1 month.

Then for grant, they will consider anything in your payslip as income like allowances, stipends, commission etc. But for loan, suddenly only basic salary is used to determine loan amount.

3. Why as first time hdb buyer SC couples need to pay for buyer stamp duty? Not cheap you know. If is 2nd time buyer or private ok la. First time bto also need pay. This additional money could have use it for the down payment already. What is there to tax??? Also not for profit but for residential use. If you say sell need pay SSD still reasonable lol.

1. If you are married and still dont get BTO after 3 tries , go find a MP for help. If after u go MP with another 3 tries and still cant get , i accept your view that they are not pro-family.

2. BTO prices is not meant to be super cheap for a reason but at the same time i dont think it is priced ridiculously expensive. As for loan , it is good to be prudent because HDB dont want u all to leverage yourself too much for BTO. You can always consider a Bank loan.

3. Funny question, just like why do we need to pay GST , income tax etc etc . It is tax revenue for a reason.

 

[Ec7171]

TLDR: Policies seem to prefer new entrees rather than encourage local born to build up families. Would be more accurate to say that the gahmen is pro-population growth instead. Technocratic approach emphasises emperical figures and lack empathy which is needed to address the root cause for an issue that is very much emotional in nature.

We first have to understand what their rationale for "pro-family" is.

My opinion is that they are technically "pro-family" but not necessarily in the "good" way. Their pro-familly is from a technocratic point of view which sees population as digits needed to fuel the growth of the economy. This is in contrast to the peasants like us who see pro-family as something more wholesome and from a spiritual point of view - we want a family to make our lives more fulfilling but various factors (economic, crowding, etc) make it hard to do so. In other words, the gahmen views it as a means to an end, while we view it as an end itself.

While the two different needs intersect, the methods used by the powers that be tend to address the former than the latter. In other words, the gahment just want more people, but they do not necessarily want to adopt the methods that we peasants desire in relation to encouraging creation of families.

This is the end result. You see that we have no shortage of migrants, the floodgate being more open pre 2011 election even. Yet the majority of those who convert and their descendants are not having (or not having in sg) any children either. Why? Obviously there's something about sg that is not conducive for marrying/having children. The MIW may be well aware of it but their technocratic pro business approach means there will never be any meaningful change in policies to move the needle.

Even Iswaran's children seem to prefer life in Australia to sg even before his case. I believe many of the ministers' children are based overseas as well. And what about "population" minister Indranee herself? Supposedly decades of "pro-family" policies, but why is she still single, never mind having children?

Family growth is just one of the ways to increase the population, and clearly not MIW's preferred one. That's why they place far more emphasis on an "open" sg rather than encouraging family formation by local born.

People talk about pro-family polices , you go talk about pro-population growth thingy.

So migration is a new thing for Singapore? It does not happen in 1910s? 1950s? 1970s? 2000s?

 

[KnyghtRyder]

3. Why as first time hdb buyer SC couples need to pay for buyer stamp duty? Not cheap you know. If is 2nd time buyer or private ok la. First time bto also need pay. This additional money could have use it for the down payment already. What is there to tax??? Also not for profit but for residential use. If you say sell need pay SSD still reasonable lol.

Stamp duty is not a tax. Even renting contract there is also a stamp fee.

Every property purchase of course must come with stamp duty.

 

[KnyghtRyder]

Property is just step 1 of the issue too.

After having a baby, it seems like pap thinks only baby first year is the issue. Yah giving all the maternity and parental leave. Then after that? Expect parents throw to ifc and childcare, only 6days of ccl a year. Expect the kid to take care of himself? The parents still has to scramble for the child's care outside of sch, when the child is sick if theres no helper . and cross fingers that they dont get retrenched and take a long time to find the next job. With social climate like that, i feel like 1 or max 2 is what people have nowadays.

At least you'll have ccl... Last time every only has annual leave to draw down for childcare issues. That's why we all pray for understanding bosses.

 

[Ethan_]

politicians can never be trusted ...

words and action are out of sync normally

See not what they say but what they do. Many need ask self, how much of what they promised to do have they done leh. Not alot after time tells perhaps.

 

[Ethan_]

Stamp duty is not a tax. Even renting contract there is also a stamp fee.

Every property purchase of course must come with stamp duty.

Erm, think 'duty' is a form of tax. Albeit a target-specific one.

Honestly, think anything that the ruling takes from the people is a form of tax. The difference is whether its direct or indirect. Which many tend don't differentiate and conveniently omit the latter.

Often the direct ones are almost a tax on all and perhaps more obviously named so. While the indirect ones are often more target-specific aimed at certain groups of people, goods or services.

The latter tend come in different names other than tax. Thus leading many to think or assume that its not a tax. Cause they simply don't read it as a tax. And think local have a galaxy of that.

 

[PaperRay]

they just need sustainability of population growth for GDP.

 

[uselessbum]

People talk about pro-family polices , you go talk about pro-population growth thingy.

So migration is a new thing for Singapore? It does not happen in 1910s? 1950s? 1970s? 2000s?

Once again, you show that you can't read or can't be bothered to. Like me break it down into something simpler for you to digest. I'm saying that MIW is more pro-population growth and that pro-family is just one way to achieve said goal. In order words, they don't really care about "pro-family", it's just a means to an end (to increase population). Their preference is still to take in newcomers. That's why we will never see any meaningful change when it comes to "pro-family".

On the other hand, we peasants view having a family in a much more nuanced and emotional manner. Something which technocrats like the MIW find hard to grasp, hence the disconnect as exemplified by inane comments such as our favourite "small space" from Jo Teo.

And no, I did not say that migration is a "new" thing for sg. On the contrary, I'm saying the opposite. Migration has been their main thrust (sidelining pro-family in the process) for population growth and will continue to be so. Pro-family is actually the "new" thing for sg, one that we are lagging behind our western peers.

If only you would put as much effort into actually reading and understanding my post as you do putting words in my mouth.

 

[zamowk]

Greatest magician in the world, too late to stop them.

Everyone kpkb also no use

 

[li9ht5peed]

jobless 11 months just say jobless. why tell hdb you got a job previously? that's like saying you had a job 10 years ago.

 

[Jo13jo]

If they really pro family, will keep housing/rent costs and healthcare, etc. to skyrocket until like that. Schools also will not be understaffed by teachers, and then spend useless money on vanity project like Founders' Memorials, etc.

We are practically a rentier economy now, like Hong Kong, etc. liao.

Maybe ish peasant fault for 一廂情願 de misinterpreting them…
Pro family is pro whose family? Their family or peasant family or rich foreigners family?

 

[DarkStarer]

For grant, if A work 1 month 5k, jobless 11 months. B earn 3k work every month for 12 months. They will still take it gross income is 8k. And say you only qualify based on 8k tier grant which is very little.

Have you tried to appeal via your MP on this?

Much more you're jobless now, so grant should be more.

But be careful if this might affect your HDB loan amount.

 

[DarkStarer]

jobless 11 months just say jobless. why tell hdb you got a job previously? that's like saying you had a job 10 years ago.

They need you to declare during the housing loan application.

I always thought their system is damn dumb. Just directly link to cpf can already what.

 

[iceblendedchoc]

MIW say pro family want young people come together faster form a family buy house etc.

But realities don't seem to tally with so called policies?

1. Hdb bto forever oversubscribed, getting a q number is like playing lottery. Is all about luck.

2. Even bto is getting very expensive and pls don't bs me say a lot grant. Most people can't even qualify the grant amount of what hdb infographics like to paint it.

Price of resale is even more crazy.

And loan they also damn prudent use MSR capped at 30% income. No reassessment also the HFE. During ballot and key collection, the income sure change leh. 6 months before key collection they will check. If income up, loan amount no up. If income drop, loan amount drop.

The way they determine income for grant and loan also different, very double standard.

For grant, if A work 1 month 5k, jobless 11 months. B earn 3k work every month for 12 months. They will still take it gross income is 8k. And say you only qualify based on 8k tier grant which is very little.

But suddenly come to loan calculation, they will only consider B 3k income and ignore A 5k caz only 1 month.

Then for grant, they will consider anything in your payslip as income like allowances, stipends, commission etc. But for loan, suddenly only basic salary is used to determine loan amount.

3. Why as first time hdb buyer SC couples need to pay for buyer stamp duty? Not cheap you know. If is 2nd time buyer or private ok la. First time bto also need pay. This additional money could have use it for the down payment already. What is there to tax??? Also not for profit but for residential use. If you say sell need pay SSD still reasonable lol.

Dunno got so many things ! I have to plan next time before I buy hdb at 55 then.

 

[KnyghtRyder]

Erm, think 'duty' is a form of tax. Albeit a target-specific one.

Honestly, think anything that the ruling takes from the people is a form of tax. The difference is whether its direct or indirect. Which many tend don't differentiate and conveniently omit the latter.

Often the direct ones are almost a tax on all and perhaps more obviously named so. While the indirect ones are often more target-specific aimed at certain groups of people, goods or services.

The latter tend come in different names other than tax. Thus leading many to think or assume that its not a tax. Cause they simply don't read it as a tax. And think local have a galaxy of that.

Okay. Fair enough. I withdraw my statement then.

 

[IAmChiobu12M]

Erm, think 'duty' is a form of tax. Albeit a target-specific one.

Honestly, think anything that the ruling takes from the people is a form of tax. The difference is whether its direct or indirect. Which many tend don't differentiate and conveniently omit the latter.

Often the direct ones are almost a tax on all and perhaps more obviously named so. While the indirect ones are often more target-specific aimed at certain groups of people, goods or services.

The latter tend come in different names other than tax. Thus leading many to think or assume that its not a tax. Cause they simply don't read it as a tax. And think local have a galaxy of that.

Glad that at least one person understand what I'm trying to say. Yet many kumgong sinkie say we have low tax. Ya low direct tax but so many indirect tax and cost and welfare? Almost minute.

 

[IAmChiobu12M]

They need you to declare during the housing loan application.

I always thought their system is damn dumb. Just directly link to cpf can already what.

Now is already directly linked. They will need you declare but they also have access to your cpf.

 

[IAmChiobu12M]

jobless 11 months just say jobless. why tell hdb you got a job previously? that's like saying you had a job 10 years ago.

You clearly not aware of current system. You can don't declare they will still check.

Now is already directly linked. They will need you declare but they also have access to your cpf.

 

[IAmChiobu12M]

TS ah, in real life many are opposite of what EDMW thinks.

Caz many kumgong and dw rock the boat. Most humans are stupid. Can only see short term.

 

[wwenze]

They lie
We know they lie
They know we know they lie
We know they know we know they lie
They know we know they know we know they lie

Yet they continue to lie anyway.