Proposal Ring - Part 2

[Des126]

Hi guys,

I have question as I have been done research and compare a lot but not able to decide between tiffany and JP.

My main concern was whenever I went down to Tiffany and look at the e-ring. It looks beatiful and flawless. Lets talk about the ring itself, I felt that tiffany ring look very beautiful and very smooth. But when I take a look at JP ring setting, the ring itself look abit rough. I can see the lines in the ring like the polishing is not perfect, but tiffany ring look very smooth. The point is that engagement ring is that it look beautiful right, not about the size?

What even cause me dillema is that I just visited tiffany at the airport and is no gst + now changi airport has 6% rebate. Price comparison become:

Jp: 0.86 D vvs2 + platinum setting ard 13k (i can get gst rebate)
Tiff: 0.86 G vvs2 + all in = 14.5k

Is 2k different.

I not particular about brand , jp diamond when I see it , is better than tiffany but overall with the ring design tiffany does look much more beautiful and best workmanship. My question is that is it really jp ring setting workmanship is not as good or the one in the store havent been polished? Or platinum is better than white gold?

Thx for taking time reading my post.

Are you looking at the NEW ring or just the sample ring from JP? I believe the workmanship of JP should be as good as other branded store. Just request them to show you the brand new one which is ready for collection by their customer.

You can also address your concern to Jann. For sure he will take care of your ring to ensure you are getting a nice one which as good as Tiffany & Co.

 

[groovinZhou]

Are you looking at the NEW ring or just the sample ring from JP? I believe the workmanship of JP should be as good as other branded store. Just request them to show you the brand new one which is ready for collection by their customer.

You can also address your concern to Jann. For sure he will take care of your ring to ensure you are getting a nice one which as good as Tiffany & Co.

Hi Des, thanks for answering my post. I believe I looked at the new ring, and those settings from the black box display. I will check with Jann if they have platinum setting that in the finished polish version.

 

[Triste]

Well if it helps, my fiancé's ring design was extremely complicated. But they managed to pull it off flawlessly in the actual version.

JP really can customize anything man.

 

[bErNiEe]

I commited to a VS1 D 0.46 for $3300 with a setting with side diamonds @1200.

My damage in total was $4500 , to be collected in Feb .

Hopefully it will turn out great .

1 thing to add is the personalised service and also they dont force you into something which you dont like .

Just let them know your requirment and budget and they will try to work something out.

 

[Des126]

I commited to a VS1 D 0.46 for $3300 with a setting with side diamonds @1200.

My damage in total was $4500 , to be collected in Feb .

Hopefully it will turn out great .

1 thing to add is the personalised service and also they dont force you into something which you dont like .

Just let them know your requirment and budget and they will try to work something out.

From JannPaul?

 

[zen710]

Opinion

Hi, I am interested in this diamond:

GIA triple Ex
Measurements: 6.48 - 6.50 x 3.97 mm
Carat Weight: 1.03 carat
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: VS2
Cut Grade: Excellent
PROPORTIONS

Depth: 61.2%
Table: 58%
Crown Angle: 34.0°
Crown Height: 14.0%
Pavilion Angle: 41.0°
Pavilion Depth: 43.5%
Star Length: 50%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted (4.0%)
Culet: None
FINISH

Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None

HCA score is 1.5.
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Very Good
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good

This diamond looks good on paper right? Is the GIA specifications and excellent score on HCA enough for me to determine whether this is considered an ideal cut diamond?

I do not have the scope images and I am not able to see it in person until 2 weeks time as that is when I visit Singapore. Appreciate your opinion

 

[hktosg]

what's a proposal ring?

Is this some weird Singapore tradition. Usually if you propose to a girl and she accepts you then give her a ring to celebrate your engagement. Why would you give a ring for a proposal? Surely in Singapore you don't give her the ring if she says no...

 

[joanie_dan]

query on solasfera

Dear laojiaos,

Need your opinion on the following on a Solasfera.

According to the GIA report, in the Clarity Characteristics Section:

Crystal, Cloud, Feather, Needle.

Personally being a layman, using a loupe I am unable to detect the above inclusions. The sales staff mentioned from his experience he could only see a thin line (probably a feather) which I can see vaguely even after his guidance.

How does these characteristics affect the quality of this Solasfera I bought? It is a 0.57, G, VS1, 5.30 -5.34 x 3.28mm, Depth 61.6%, Table 55%, Girdle Slightly Thick to Thick, Faceted, Cutlet None, polish & symmetry excellent, flourescence none.

I do not have the scope pictures at the moment but the Aset Scope and hearts and arrows seem fine.

No doubt inclusions cannot be seen with the naked eye, I am pondering whether I will be getting a "better" diamond by choosing another one with only crystal and cloud, and top up a few hundred dollars more? They have another 0.55, F VS1, with only cloud and crystal. (both are VS1, colour is better, but carat size drop)

Which one is more worth it? assuming other parameters(scope views etc remain ceteris paribas)

 

[Des126]

Dear laojiaos,

Need your opinion on the following on a Solasfera.

According to the GIA report, in the Clarity Characteristics Section:

Crystal, Cloud, Feather, Needle.

Personally being a layman, using a loupe I am unable to detect the above inclusions. The sales staff mentioned from his experience he could only see a thin line (probably a feather) which I can see vaguely even after his guidance.

How does these characteristics affect the quality of this Solasfera I bought? It is a 0.57, G, VS1, 5.30 -5.34 x 3.28mm, Depth 61.6%, Table 55%, Girdle Slightly Thick to Thick, Faceted, Cutlet None, polish & symmetry excellent, flourescence none.

I do not have the scope pictures at the moment but the Aset Scope and hearts and arrows seem fine.

No doubt inclusions cannot be seen with the naked eye, I am pondering whether I will be getting a "better" diamond by choosing another one with only crystal and cloud, and top up a few hundred dollars more? They have another 0.55, F VS1, with only cloud and crystal. (both are VS1, colour is better, but carat size drop)

Which one is more worth it? assuming other parameters(scope views etc remain ceteris paribas)

Sometimes the smaller size in carat doesnt mean the diameter will be smaller as well. Based on your description about the 0.57 G VS1, the gridle from slightly thick to thick will not be graded as Ex cut if this is a 57 facet H&A round brilliant cut. Of course i understand this is a Solasfera but if possible try to get one from Thin to Thin, Thin to Medium, Medium to Medium, Medium to Slightly Thick or Slightly Thick to Slightly Thick. The thinner the girdle the larger the diameter size of the diamond. If the girdle of this 0.55 F VS1 is in the medium range i would estimate the diameter size will be about the same as 0.57ct G VS1 if the depth is also about 61.6% or less.

As for the clarity i do not think you need to worry about the feather in VS1. Furthermore i believe JP has inspected the stone to make sure the inclusion will not cause any issue to the durability of the stones.

 

[Des126]

Hi, I am interested in this diamond:

GIA triple Ex
Measurements: 6.48 - 6.50 x 3.97 mm
Carat Weight: 1.03 carat
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: VS2
Cut Grade: Excellent
PROPORTIONS

Depth: 61.2%
Table: 58%
Crown Angle: 34.0°
Crown Height: 14.0%
Pavilion Angle: 41.0°
Pavilion Depth: 43.5%
Star Length: 50%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted (4.0%)
Culet: None
FINISH

Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None

HCA score is 1.5.
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Very Good
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good

This diamond looks good on paper right? Is the GIA specifications and excellent score on HCA enough for me to determine whether this is considered an ideal cut diamond?

I do not have the scope images and I am not able to see it in person until 2 weeks time as that is when I visit Singapore. Appreciate your opinion

Without ASET scope image we can't say this is an Ideal Cut even the proportion is within the range of Ideal Cut.

Try to ask from your jeweller for the ASET scope image.

 

[joanie_dan]

Sometimes the smaller size in carat doesnt mean the diameter will be smaller as well. Based on your description about the 0.57 G VS1, the gridle from slightly thick to thick will not be graded as Ex cut if this is a 57 facet H&A round brilliant cut. Of course i understand this is a Solasfera but if possible try to get one from Thin to Thin, Thin to Medium, Medium to Medium, Medium to Slightly Thick or Slightly Thick to Slightly Thick. The thinner the girdle the larger the diameter size of the diamond. If the girdle of this 0.55 F VS1 is in the medium range i would estimate the diameter size will be about the same as 0.57ct G VS1 if the depth is also about 61.6% or less.

As for the clarity i do not think you need to worry about the feather in VS1. Furthermore i believe JP has inspected the stone to make sure the inclusion will not cause any issue to the durability of the stones.

Hi bro, thanks for your prompt reply. Is there any range for the Depth % and Table % to adhere to for a excellent cut? Also any other most important thing to take note?

Subsequently for a one grade change in colour from G to F, and size 0.57 down to 0.55, what should be a reasonable price increment to pay for?

 

[zen710]

Without ASET scope image we can't say this is an Ideal Cut even the proportion is within the range of Ideal Cut.

Try to ask from your jeweller for the ASET scope image.

thanks Des. But I don't think they got aset scope images and I need to reserve the diamond asap. I can only analyse it from these numbers.

 

[Des126]

Hi bro, thanks for your prompt reply. Is there any range for the Depth % and Table % to adhere to for a excellent cut? Also any other most important thing to take note?

Subsequently for a one grade change in colour from G to F, and size 0.57 down to 0.55, what should be a reasonable price increment to pay for?

For just an excellent cut from GIA :
Depth - 58% to 63%
Table - 53% to 62%

For Ideal :
Depth - 59% to 62.5%
Table - 54% to 59%

For Super Ideal (Like those from JP)
Depth - 59% to 62%
Table - 55% - 57%.

Note that you cannot determine the cut grade of a diamond without knowing ALL of the proportions. You can't say it is an Ideal Cut by just looking at the table % and depth % that appear to be in the Ideal range. Those numbers alone don't make it an "Ideal Cut." Crown angle and Pavilion should be taken into consideration as well.

A price increment for a one grade higher of Color always depends on 4C. An upgrade of color from G to F and from F to E color will not be the same. The Carat, Cut and Clarity should always be taken into consideration.

For instance a price increment between "0.57 G VS1 to 0.57 F VS"1 and "1.01 G VS1 to 1.01 F VS1" will definitely not be the same as both carat weight are in difference range even both are upgraded from G to F color. Another example the price increment will not be the same as well between "0.57 G VS2 to 0.57 F VS2" and "0.57 G IF to 0.57 F IF".

You mentioned before there is a few hundred difference to upgrade from 0.57 G VS1 to 0.55 F VS1. I think it is reasonable. I will definitely choose 0.57 F VS1 as F color is Colorless and G is near Colorless. In term of carat weight from 0.57 to 0.55 i doubt there is any size difference as it depends on the diameter. Have you checked the diameter size of 0.55 F VS1? I guess it will be very close to 0.57 if the girdle is thinner with the same Crown and Pavilion angle.

 

[joanie_dan]

For just an excellent cut from GIA :
Depth - 58% to 63%
Table - 53% to 62%

For Ideal :
Depth - 59% to 62.5%
Table - 54% to 59%

For Super Ideal (Like those from JP)
Depth - 59% to 62%
Table - 55% - 57%.

Note that you cannot determine the cut grade of a diamond without knowing ALL of the proportions. You can't say it is an Ideal Cut by just looking at the table % and depth % that appear to be in the Ideal range. Those numbers alone don't make it an "Ideal Cut." Crown angle and Pavilion should be taken into consideration as well.

A price increment for a one grade higher of Color always depends on 4C. An upgrade of color from G to F and from F to E color will not be the same. The Carat, Cut and Clarity should always be taken into consideration.

For instance a price increment between "0.57 G VS1 to 0.57 F VS"1 and "1.01 G VS1 to 1.01 F VS1" will definitely not be the same as both carat weight are in difference range even both are upgraded from G to F color. Another example the price increment will not be the same as well between "0.57 G VS2 to 0.57 F VS2" and "0.57 G IF to 0.57 F IF".

You mentioned before there is a few hundred difference to upgrade from 0.57 G VS1 to 0.55 F VS1. I think it is reasonable. I will definitely choose 0.57 F VS1 as F color is Colorless and G is near Colorless. In term of carat weight from 0.57 to 0.55 i doubt there is any size difference as it depends on the diameter. Have you checked the diameter size of 0.55 F VS1? I guess it will be very close to 0.57 if the girdle is thinner with the same Crown and Pavilion angle.

As I am choosing the Solasfera, are these considered super ideal? I noticed that the Solasfera GIA report did not state the crown and pavilion angles. Where can I get these values?

It slipped my mind about checking the diameter (so much info to remember after reading >100 pages on this thread), hence I only was concerned about the carat weight during the purchase.

They have quite limited in stock and there wasn't many that I can choose from the specs I preferred (F-G, VS1-VS2) for around carat size 0.51 to 0.59 as well as 0.61 to 0.69. Or rather they told me they only had 2 stones which fit the specs. My friend gotten 1 of them 0.58, so i only had 0.57 to consider. Only until later into the appt they brought out the 0.55 when i requested for more comparisons.

 

[firewalker85]

thanks Des. But I don't think they got aset scope images and I need to reserve the diamond asap. I can only analyse it from these numbers.

Can't say much about the diamond by just using the proportions... Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable buying a diamond without seeing it with the scopes.. Afterall, you're making your once in a lifetime purchase

As I am choosing the Solasfera, are these considered super ideal? I noticed that the Solasfera GIA report did not state the crown and pavilion angles. Where can I get these values?

It slipped my mind about checking the diameter (so much info to remember after reading >100 pages on this thread), hence I only was concerned about the carat weight during the purchase.

They have quite limited in stock and there wasn't many that I can choose from the specs I preferred (F-G, VS1-VS2) for around carat size 0.51 to 0.59 as well as 0.61 to 0.69. Or rather they told me they only had 2 stones which fit the specs. My friend gotten 1 of them 0.58, so i only had 0.57 to consider. Only until later into the appt they brought out the 0.55 when i requested for more comparisons.

Modified rounds won't have the crown and pavilion angles. It won't be accurate since the diamond is cut so many times. You'll have to rely on the scopes which is the best way to pick a diamond. There are many things that can go wrong, if you only use the proportion to buy a diamond.

 

[zen710]

Can't say much about the diamond by just using the proportions... Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable buying a diamond without seeing it with the scopes.. Afterall, you're making your once in a lifetime purchase



Modified rounds won't have the crown and pavilion angles. It won't be accurate since the diamond is cut so many times. You'll have to rely on the scopes which is the best way to pick a diamond. There are many things that can go wrong, if you only use the proportion to buy a diamond.

Thanks..yeah that is why abit scared also. Anyone heard of White Dwarf diamond? Cannot find much information on them.

 

[Des126]

As I am choosing the Solasfera, are these considered super ideal? I noticed that the Solasfera GIA report did not state the crown and pavilion angles. Where can I get these values?

It slipped my mind about checking the diameter (so much info to remember after reading >100 pages on this thread), hence I only was concerned about the carat weight during the purchase.

They have quite limited in stock and there wasn't many that I can choose from the specs I preferred (F-G, VS1-VS2) for around carat size 0.51 to 0.59 as well as 0.61 to 0.69. Or rather they told me they only had 2 stones which fit the specs. My friend gotten 1 of them 0.58, so i only had 0.57 to consider. Only until later into the appt they brought out the 0.55 when i requested for more comparisons.

JP only carry Super Ideal Cut Diamond like JP Super Ideal, Brellia & Solasfera. They are the only Private Jewellers in Singapore who carry Super Ideal Cut Diamond. I'm afraid by the time you visit them again the 0.55 F VS1 is gone...

 

[Des126]

As I am choosing the Solasfera, are these considered super ideal? I noticed that the Solasfera GIA report did not state the crown and pavilion angles. Where can I get these values?

It slipped my mind about checking the diameter (so much info to remember after reading >100 pages on this thread), hence I only was concerned about the carat weight during the purchase.

They have quite limited in stock and there wasn't many that I can choose from the specs I preferred (F-G, VS1-VS2) for around carat size 0.51 to 0.59 as well as 0.61 to 0.69. Or rather they told me they only had 2 stones which fit the specs. My friend gotten 1 of them 0.58, so i only had 0.57 to consider. Only until later into the appt they brought out the 0.55 when i requested for more comparisons.

Why not just give JP a call to check the diameter of 0.55ct and compare to 0.57ct?

 

[Draculav]

thanks Des. But I don't think they got aset scope images and I need to reserve the diamond asap. I can only analyse it from these numbers.

Someone wrote about them before.. just search on the net can see already..

Adding one more shop experience to my list..

White Dwarf (Ubi)

Sorry but I would not recommend that place to anyone. Their shop is extremely hard to find... When I first tried going there, their office unit no. led me to a door with no signs at all.. wasn't even sure if that was the correct place and no one was there. First trip was wasted. I made an appointment for my second trip and was served by Kelvin. It was the same place.. Their "shop" is a barely furnished small room... There were no company signs or anything indicating that they are from white dwarf. Was quite unsure if this is a proper company..

Was explained that this is just their part time jobs. They have their own full time jobs by day and sell diamonds by night. They will only open the office to you by appointment as they can only meet you after their job's work hours..

He educated me briefly about diamonds... although I found some of the knowledge shared was definitely wrong.. The diamonds that I was presented were taken out from pieces of papers. Most of their diamonds have fluorescence which I didn't want... He told me fluorescence was actually a good thing because it gives the diamond more color and is good for the diamond? This raised my alarm bells... He tried selling me IGI certificate diamonds and told me it was good.. Which is a complete opposite of what I've been reading here on the forums.

I would never risk a few hundred dollars on such a company.. even more so a few thousand dollars.. I won't expect their full commitment on your ring as this is just a side job and not a proper jewelry company.
This also raises questions about ring after sales services in the future. What if this makeshift company disappears? They can easily do so since they don't have a proper office.. It is known that some jewelry shops operates for 1-2 years and switch your diamonds when you re-size the ring and stuff.. By the time you discover this, the company is not there.

 

[Des126]

Someone wrote about them before.. just search on the net can see already..

I have been visiting quite a few Private Jewellers who also practice keeping the loose diamonds in a fold paper like eclarity, Josi gems, Fairy's Inc and White Dwarf. This is seems like a typical way how they keep the diamond.

Sometimes i really feel so sorry seeing this kind of post. Like previosuly the post of "diamond falling out from the setting" and the recent one "buying hardwarezone user ID to post bad review about JannPaul". Whether it is true or not i believe we should be able to judge ourself.

We should always visit as many jewellers as possible to compare their service, quality and price before making any decision. Trust what we seen rather than just believe blindly. Who knows who is the one behind doing all this thing.