2024 Market Sentiment & Positioning

aurvandil

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Overall a very problematic situation with no easy solution.

The PBOC has been trying to use QE to try and fix the problem. The capital flight however meant that whatever money they printed was quickly spirited out of the country. Nationalisation of the developers to complete all the half completed projects was considered. This would have to be done at the central government level since many of the local governments are insolvent. The problem with this was that there is a already a huge glut of completed homes as evidenced by the ghost cities. If they completed all the half completed projects, occupancy rate could fall to as low as 50%, further crashing the housing market. The current policy seems to be to force the buyers to pay the bill. Those who default are dealt very harshly using their social credit system.
 
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d5dude

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The PBOC has been trying to use QE to try and fix the problem. The capital flight however meant that whatever money they printed was quickly spirited out of the country. Nationalisation of the developers to complete all the half completed projects was considered. This would have to be done at the central government level since many of the local governments are insolvent. The problem with this was that there is a already a huge glut of completed homes as evidenced by the ghost cities. If they completed all the half completed projects, occupancy rate could fall to as low as 50%, further crashing the housing market. The current policy seems to be to force the buyers to pay the bill. Those who default are dealt very harshly using their social credit system.

I think the glut is not so severe in tier 1/2 cities, its the tier 3/4 cities that are in a massive bubble, and many developers have huge developments in those cities so thats a big problem.

Whatever the CCP chooses to do they better act quickly, real estate is 20-25% of the economy and 70+% of Chinese household wealth is trapped in real estate, there is no real prospect of any meaningful economic recovery if this sector doesnt recover.
 

elvintay07

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Many ppl choose to believe the clown western media. I am in China and visited a few cities. Never hear about all these BS China is dying. One thing I respect China is the patriotism by their citizens. If this happens in SG/ MY, not sure whether all will run road. I spoke to a few doctors/ lawyers in their late 20s. Many think all these are good chance to buy new properties. Of course this is small number compared to 1.3b population.

But don’t worry la. China not gg to be North Korea. In fact many of their talents are returning and they have much better ecosystem for R&D in China as compared to SG
 

sohguanh

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Many ppl choose to believe the clown western media. I am in China and visited a few cities. Never hear about all these BS China is dying. One thing I respect China is the patriotism by their citizens. If this happens in SG/ MY, not sure whether all will run road. I spoke to a few doctors/ lawyers in their late 20s. Many think all these are good chance to buy new properties. Of course this is small number compared to 1.3b population.

But don’t worry la. China not gg to be North Korea. In fact many of their talents are returning and they have much better ecosystem for R&D in China as compared to SG
This is MM so for non-MM stuff all I can say is some organised reputation smearing campaign going on against China it is so obvious and I no need to spell out the name of the countries with highest suspicion
 

weng0202

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Like that my Baba got hope or not? Lol... my Baba responsible for half of my losses.
 

limster

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UK market just closed, so this is more or less my final return for 2023. Achieved my target of 10% which erased my single digit loss in 2022 so thats good.
 

elvintay07

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My cousin and wife added Scottish mortgage investment trust. Looks interesting. Anyone familiar with this holdings?
 

stanlawj

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I think the glut is not so severe in tier 1/2 cities, its the tier 3/4 cities that are in a massive bubble, and many developers have huge developments in those cities so thats a big problem.

Whatever the CCP chooses to do they better act quickly, real estate is 20-25% of the economy and 70+% of Chinese household wealth is trapped in real estate, there is no real prospect of any meaningful economic recovery if this sector doesnt recover.
On the subject of recovery, the current foreign investor belief like yourself is that property drives most of the growth, thus if no return in property market, no growth and no foreign funds for China. This is consensus foreign view. We can also tack on de-globalisation/shifting of supply chains to other countries.

For readers' benefit, the following video interview of Chine Beigebook summarizes this viewpoint very well including the stagnant near-term outlook:
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2023/12/...iver-in-china-for-the-next-several-years.html

I want to emphasize: That is TODAY.

When the crash came, people stopped buying projects and the money stopped flowing.

The China banks who lent money to finance all this are of course now stuck with a mountain of toxic assets which is why ever so often, we see stories of bank runs or banks freezing accounts and not allowing withdrawals.
If this has already been reported, then the market has priced this in.

The trouble with debate about stocks is my debate focus on the time frame in the FUTURE, while bears are still talking about today's priced in facts and the associated lack of any solid bullish evidence.

Well, just use Huawei as a reference example for China's future corporations. Alibaba is also innovating. Just because they are behind and late to the game, does not mean they are any less capable.
I don't know if you have any experience running your own business. If these are your competitors, you should revere them, not disregard them.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/29/tech/huawei-revenue-rebound-china-intl-hnk/index.html

Huawei was once fighting for its survival. It is back to nearly $100 billion in revenue in 2023​


Unlike Japan's rigid age-based seniority in corporations, China's corporate culture is ruthless.
Here is the write-up about PDD and get the truest sense of how very different it is from Japan's rigid corpses.

https://www.baiguan.news/p/how-does-the-internal-management

How does the internal management of Pinduoduo operate?​



Anyway, I'm not here to win any debate right now, because near-term outlook is still bearish.

The purpose is to reference to these points I publicly made in HWZ forum if my insight prove to be correct in the future.
 
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limster

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Chicken mentioned improved US-China relations….
This can be crucial.

As I am also vested in HK/China ETFs, I am hopeful that China will recover.

If HK/China ETFs are able to outperform Vanguard World in 2024, I will take the opportunity to sell some and reblance into Vanguard World. I want to cap HK/China exposure to 10% of my portfolio.
 
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