[Advice needed] Which plan to opt for?

[myth_shenhua]

Hi All,

I am in the midst of setting up internet for my new place which measures 650sqm over 3 levels.
We will be having a lot of home connectivity devices (e.g., smart home, CCTVs) and I am afraid 1gbps connection is insufficient for my household bandwidth and usage - my current home is on 1gbps and during peak of pandemic, Google Meets was a HUGE challenge (latency, buffering, intermittent disconnection).

Hence, hoping to get advice from you experts what is the best and most optimal solution I should use?
My household has no need for cable TV and solely just need a stable and fast internet which we can rely upon.

<Caveat: I am a relatively IT noob>

A) Should I opt for 2 x 1gbps from Singtel (is this possible? Saw this plan exists for M1)?
- Have good experience with Singtel and it has never failed me
- Not opting for 2gbps offered by Singtel since quick reading on forum shows that it does not deliver the speed
- 10gbps seems a little overkill and i rather have 2 lines

B) Should I opt for 1 x 1gbps from Singtel, and 1 x 1gbps from Starhub?
- Heard that this at least ensures that my house has coverage in the event one network is down for my particular area
- Is this possible?
- Will this cause any issue?

Anyways, also open to any suggestion~

 

[xiaofan]

Hi All,

I am in the midst of setting up internet for my new place which measures 650sqm over 3 levels.
We will be having a lot of home connectivity devices (e.g., smart home, CCTVs) and I am afraid 1gbps connection is insufficient for my household bandwidth and usage - my current home is on 1gbps and during peak of pandemic, Google Meets was a HUGE challenge (latency, buffering, intermittent disconnection).

Hence, hoping to get advice from you experts what is the best and most optimal solution I should use?
My household has no need for cable TV and solely just need a stable and fast internet which we can rely upon.

<Caveat: I am a relatively IT noob>

A) Should I opt for 2 x 1gbps from Singtel (is this possible? Saw this plan exists for M1)?
- Have good experience with Singtel and it has never failed me
- Not opting for 2gbps offered by Singtel since quick reading on forum shows that it does not deliver the speed
- 10gbps seems a little overkill and i rather have 2 lines

B) Should I opt for 1 x 1gbps from Singtel, and 1 x 1gbps from Starhub?
- Heard that this at least ensures that my house has coverage in the event one network is down for my particular area
- Is this possible?
- Will this cause any issue?

Anyways, also open to any suggestion~

Between your Option 1 (Singtel 1+1) and Option 2 (dual ISP, Singtel + Starhub), I will recommend to go with Option 2. 1Gbps is most likely sufficient for you, but it is good to have fail over and dual ISP plans will help.

The plan is not a really issue. Since this is a big house and you are not so familiar with networking, maybe you want to engage some professional helps to set up the home network.

Hopefully you have LAN ports at home -- LAN ports in each floor and hopefully in some of the rooms. If not you need to carry out that renovation first.

Best choice is probably pfSense router + Ubiquiti Unifi Switches + Unifi APs. You may need to get professionals to help you to install the solution.

If you want to go for consumer mesh solution, maybe Netgear Orbi can be an option and they offer installation service at a reasonable price of S$120 if you use their relevatively more expensive but good mesh solution. You can start with RBK853 (one for each floor) and then add more RBS850 satellite units.
Ref: https://netgearstore.sg/products/on-site-installation-service-in-person
Ref: https://netgearstore.sg/collections...3-ax6000-tri-band-3-pack-wifi-6-mesh-system-1

 

[Henry Ng]

As this is a big house, it is best to engage some professional helps to set up the home network. It is not like a HDB unit where user just want to set up a simple home wifi network. You may also need to set up some CCTV or webcam or security camera, fire alarm and security system etc etc. which is necessary. May also need to have a bit of online security for your home network. You may need some Pay TV service too.

 

[myth_shenhua]

TYSM both! I actually do have a professional to help me with it since I am rebuilding my place entirely.
However, I was just concerned with how I should go about with ISP selection.
Reason is that I want to connect one level with rest of the stuff Henry mentioned, CCTV/Alarm etc; while the rest of the house will share the other network.

I ultimately opted for option 2 for same reasons you mentioned - coverage during outage of one ISP in the same area. And more importantly, because there is potentially a gap between when I need the internet to be up vs my move-in date, so, made the most sense.

For all rooms, there will be LAN port, so all is good at least on that front. I am checking with the network expert to see get the specs of the modem / router / switches / AP they are supplying.

 

[TanKianW]

TYSM both! I actually do have a professional to help me with it since I am rebuilding my place entirely.
However, I was just concerned with how I should go about with ISP selection.
Reason is that I want to connect one level with rest of the stuff Henry mentioned, CCTV/Alarm etc; while the rest of the house will share the other network.

I ultimately opted for option 2 for same reasons you mentioned - coverage during outage of one ISP in the same area. And more importantly, because there is potentially a gap between when I need the internet to be up vs my move-in date, so, made the most sense.

For all rooms, there will be LAN port, so all is good at least on that front. I am checking with the network expert to see get the specs of the modem / router / switches / AP they are supplying.

Your house being "big" and you getting a (real, hope so..) professional to help. My advice:​

• Subscribe to fiber plans from 2 different ISPs. I find M1 & SH to be fine.​
• Get an enterprise firewall/router solution that could do proper multi-WAN failover and VLANs​
• Segregate/group your IOTs, CCTVs, Mobile devices, external facing servers, trusted admin servers/PCs, etc onto different VLANs. Set up "block rules" among them to prevent any "lateral attacks" when any VLAN was compromised​
• Connect all network equipment to a UPS which would allow sufficient time for proper shut down or continue to stay on until power resume.​
• Use commercial APs set up. Skip OTS consumer AP/AIO router all together.​
• You probably need to plan and allocate for a (self standing or wall mount) rack location to house all your networking appliances and NVRs.​

Hope it helps.

 

[Mach3.2]

But if you actually have a professional to help you, you simply have to lay out the requirements and he should be able to tell you how he plan to tackle your requirements. Why are you getting seperate help here?

Just bring what he suggested here and ask for a 2nd opinion if you just want to confirm his work.

 

[myth_shenhua]

Your house being "big" and you getting a (real, hope so..) professional to help. My advice:​

• [YES] Subscribe to fiber plans from 2 different ISPs. I find M1 & SH to be fine.​
• [Dont think so] Get an enterprise firewall/router solution that could do proper multi-WAN failover and VLANs​
• [Dont think so] Segregate/group your IOTs, CCTVs, Mobile devices, external facing servers, trusted admin servers/PCs, etc onto different VLANs. Set up "block rules" among them to prevent any "lateral attacks" when any VLAN was compromised​
• [Somewhat in place] Connect all network equipment to a UPS which would allow sufficient time for proper shut down or continue to stay on until power resume.​
• [Somewhat] Use commercial APs set up. Skip OTS consumer AP/AIO router all together.​
• [YES] You probably need to plan and allocate for a (self standing or wall mount) rack location to house all your networking appliances and NVRs.​

Hope it helps.

I do not think my professional is that professional...provided my response up above.

Reason is that my parents are not opting for a hardcore professional service. More around helping me to get everything up and running plus the CCTVs. But yes, they are using commercial APs (Unifi) just that it will be using normal TP-LINK switches (PoE, non-PoE) with connection from ISP.

Do you think I should propose having UDM? Or would the proposed basic set up by them be appropriate?

 

[TanKianW]

I do not think my professional is that professional...provided my response up above.

Reason is that my parents are not opting for a hardcore professional service. More around helping me to get everything up and running plus the CCTVs. But yes, they are using commercial APs (Unifi) just that it will be using normal TP-LINK switches (PoE, non-PoE) with connection from ISP.

Do you think I should propose having UDM? Or would the proposed basic set up by them be appropriate?

If you intend to go with Unifi APs and UDM, you should go with Unifi switches too, instead of TPlink’s.

 

[xiaofan]

I do not think my professional is that professional...provided my response up above.

Reason is that my parents are not opting for a hardcore professional service. More around helping me to get everything up and running plus the CCTVs. But yes, they are using commercial APs (Unifi) just that it will be using normal TP-LINK switches (PoE, non-PoE) with connection from ISP.

Do you think I should propose having UDM? Or would the proposed basic set up by them be appropriate?

Other than the Unifi APs and TP-Link Switches, what is the main router they are proposing?

 

[myth_shenhua]

This was what was shared to me:

Modem and main router by isp
Db is the terminal . Need isp modem/router
Total approx 3X datapoints for house inclusive: CCTV, Ceiling Unifi AP, LAN ports, intercom

If this is a horrible setup, I very much seek your advice so that I can get it rectified if necessary.
Have also confirmed with builder that I will be going with 2 * 1gbps (1 ST, 1 SH).

edit: btw, saw a discussion on ONT vs ONR for ST, does it matter for my case?
Sorry - tech and networking noob here..

 

[Mach3.2]

Since you're going to subscribe 2 fibre lines, you'd probably want to load balance both connections for a little bit of redundancy. The router that SH or M1 provide might not be able to do dual WAN load balancing.
Not sure how's the dual WAN support is on unifi routers, but the more expensive Asus routers and self built pfsense routers can do dual WAN, though the pfsense route requires a bit of elbow grease, which might not be a good idea if you're not technically inclined.


Anyway I see that your house is gonna be 3 levels tall, I suppose the walls will be concrete? If it's concrete you might want to install at least 2 APs per floor to maintain good wifi signal throughout the house. But of course a floor plan will be needed to give a more educated advice.

Also note the choice of APs, the AC-PRO is a previous gen wifi5 model. If I'm building new, I'd go for the newer wifi6 U6-LR.
Going with the price from lazada, a UAP-AC-PRO goes for $225 (though OOS) and the U6-LR goes for $300, so about an additional $75 per AP, but these APs should last a long time so imo it's fine to spend a little more, but ymmv.

A slightly cheaper alternative will be the aruba instanton AP22 at $270. I haven't used any of the instanton APs since it only support cloud management with no provision for local management, but so far that's the biggest gripe I've seen about the instanton APs, haven't really seen anything bad about it apart from the lack of local management.


Consider having at least 1 data point in each room, preferably 2 data points. Once the house is built, you're probably not going to run anymore ethernet cables in the future when you need them.
Rational for laying ethernet cables is wifi is a shared medium, if everything goes on wifi, you might run into contention issues when everyone tries to use the internet wireless simultaneously, though with wifi6 it shouldn't be that big of an issue unlike with wifi 4 and wifi5.


Regarding ONT vs ONR, so long you avoid singtel fibre you're fine, imo no reason to go with them anyway unless you're tagging on mio tv or some other services... The price isn't competitive anyway.

 

[myth_shenhua]

Since you're going to subscribe 2 fibre lines, you'd probably want to load balance both connections for a little bit of redundancy. The router that SH or M1 provide might not be able to do dual WAN load balancing.
Not sure how's the dual WAN support is on unifi routers, but the more expensive Asus routers and self built pfsense routers can do dual WAN, though the pfsense route requires a bit of elbow grease, which might not be a good idea if you're not technically inclined.


Anyway I see that your house is gonna be 3 levels tall, I suppose the walls will be concrete? If it's concrete you might want to install at least 2 APs per floor to maintain good wifi signal throughout the house. But of course a floor plan will be needed to give a more educated advice.

Also note the choice of APs, the AC-PRO is a previous gen wifi5 model. If I'm building new, I'd go for the newer wifi6 U6-LR.
Going with the price from lazada, a UAP-AC-PRO goes for $225 (though OOS) and the U6-LR goes for $300, so about an additional $75 per AP, but these APs should last a long time so imo it's fine to spend a little more, but ymmv.

A slightly cheaper alternative will be the aruba instanton AP22 at $270. I haven't used any of the instanton APs since it only support cloud management with no provision for local management, but so far that's the biggest gripe I've seen about the instanton APs, haven't really seen anything bad about it apart from the lack of local management.


Consider having at least 1 data point in each room, preferably 2 data points. Once the house is built, you're probably not going to run anymore ethernet cables in the future when you need them.
Rational for laying ethernet cables is wifi is a shared medium, if everything goes on wifi, you might run into contention issues when everyone tries to use the internet wireless simultaneously, though with wifi6 it shouldn't be that big of an issue unlike with wifi 4 and wifi5.


Regarding ONT vs ONR, so long you avoid singtel fibre you're fine, imo no reason to go with them anyway unless you're tagging on mio tv or some other services... The price isn't competitive anyway.

Do you think I can go ahead with what he proposed, less the AP (Will check in with him to see if can get newer spec), to work with two ASUS AX-88U? Or is it suboptimal?
My concern is 1) whether TP link is okay based on what he shared, 2) whether I should incorporate my AX88U and where, or 3) upgrade to UDM + unifi switches + AX88U.

I don’t think there are additional data points catered for ceiling Wifi coverage per level.. so might need to make do with that but they have confirmed they will check for dead zones.

TY for the suggestion, let me propose the UAP U6 LR to him and see how much he comes back with.

Yup, we actually rebuild the property and have LAN data points in all room, although, only one per room.

I am actually signing with ST fibre, reason is price is quite fair — $39.90 after GST for 2Y plan. My wife and family preference is ST since it has not failed on us before. Will be porting over SH from my current place afterwards.

 

[Mach3.2]

Do you think I can go ahead with what he proposed, less the AP (Will check in with him to see if can get newer spec), to work with two ASUS AX-88U? Or is it suboptimal?
My concern is 1) whether TP link is okay based on what he shared, 2) whether I should incorporate my AX88U and where, or 3) upgrade to UDM + unifi switches + AX88U.

Just a single AX88U will do for your router if that's what you're asking.

AX88U supports dual WAN.
https://www.asus.com/sg/support/FAQ/1011719/

The 2 WAN connections can go into the single AX88U, then the AX88U will be connected to the 2 switches. I presume your contractor plan to use the 24 port switch to wire up your bedrooms, and the 8 port PoE switch will be used to power the APs.
This should work. Your contractor might have suggested the 24 port non PoE switch with an 8 port PoE switch due to cost reasons.
A 24 port switch from Ubiquiti will cost you $600+. This is the non PoE model. The 24 port PoE model is selling at around $1000+ if I'm not mistaken.

If you don't care for a full Unifi stack, Aruba sells basically the same thing for $665, except this one comes with PoE.
That being said, the tplink option is still probably cheaper than the 24 port Aruba 1930 195W PoE+ switch I linked above.
Edit: The Aruba 1830 24 port PoE switch is cheaper at $465. It might make sense going with this.

UDM... I have poor opinion of Unifi routers.
Unifi switches are ok for most people, though you pay a pretty penny for it.

I don’t think there are additional data points catered for ceiling Wifi coverage per level.. so might need to make do with that but they have confirmed they will check for dead zones.

Yeah better check with your contractors, and ask them how do they plan to rectify dead spots if it comes up. Also do let that know what kind of speeds you're expecting over wifi.

For me I'm using Unifi's wifi5 APs and I usually get around 300Mbps to 450Mbps. I expect to get no less than 100Mbps at the worse spot in my house.
My expectations are a little high in this regard; some people are happy with 50Mbps, so in a sense this is quite subjective.
What your contractors deem as acceptable might not be acceptable to you. If you have no idea what to expect, it might be good to ask the contractors to spell things out clearly.

Yup, we actually rebuild the property and have LAN data points in all room, although, only one per room.

That's good, at least you won't be stuck without any ethernet points when you need them.

I am actually signing with ST fibre, reason is price is quite fair — $39.90 after GST for 2Y plan. My wife and family preference is ST since it has not failed on us before. Will be porting over SH from my current place afterwards.

If the price is right, then whatever works for you, though I will still caution against singtel since you'll probably get an ONR with no option to put it into ONT mode unless you subscribe to their more expensive 1 + 1 Gbps gamer plan. This will result in a sub-optimal setup for one of your WAN connections since it's gonna be "double NATed".

 

[myth_shenhua]

Just a single AX88U will do for your router if that's what you're asking.
AX88U supports dual WAN.

The 2 WAN connections can go into the single AX88U, then the AX88U will be connected to the 2 switches. I presume your contractor plan to use the 24 port switch to wire up your bedrooms, and the 8 port PoE switch will be used to power the APs.
This should work. Your contractor might have suggested the 24 port non PoE switch with an 8 port PoE switch due to cost reasons.
A 24 port switch from Ubiquiti will cost you $600+. This is the non PoE model. The 24 port PoE model is selling at around $1000+ if I'm not mistaken.

My apologies - I meant to say I have 2 AX88U and can afford to use them as the primary router.
It looks like I may not need a UDM or Unifi router/modem since I am able to use AX88U to perform the same function. What I need to do is connect ST and SH modem's output into AX88U for the dual WAN.
>> I will need to go and read up more on how to do that
Yes, I do believe that the 24 port non-PoE switch and 8 port PoE was a deliberate decision based on cost.
>> Is there a major difference between Unifi vs Aruba vs TP-LINK? If it works, I think I am okay with what they have provisioned
>> I might check with them if we can cancel the TP link switches and opt for the one you shared (ARUBA)

If the price is right, then whatever works for you, though I will still caution against singtel since you'll probably get an ONR with no option to put it into ONT mode unless you subscribe to their more expensive 1 + 1 Gbps gamer plan. This will result in a sub-optimal setup for one of your WAN connections since it's gonna be "double NATed".

Unfortunately, have already inked with ST as I needed the internet to be up asap this month for some testing.

 

[Mach3.2]

My apologies - I meant to say I have 2 AX88U and can afford to use them as the primary router.
It looks like I may not need a UDM or Unifi router/modem since I am able to use AX88U to perform the same function. What I need to do is connect ST and SH modem's output into AX88U for the dual WAN.
>> I will need to go and read up more on how to do that
Yes, I do believe that the 24 port non-PoE switch and 8 port PoE was a deliberate decision based on cost.
>> Is there a major difference between Unifi vs Aruba vs TP-LINK? If it works, I think I am okay with what they have provisioned
>> I might check with them if we can cancel the TP link switches and opt for the one you shared (ARUBA)

Never used tplink, but in terms of feature set unifi and aruba should be pretty similar for the most part. If you're planning a flat network then it shouldn't matter what you go with honestly speaking.

One obvious difference is you can only configure unifi switches using the unifi controller software, whereas the Aruba InstantOn switches support local management via a web based GUI.
Unifi APs are configured using the same unifi controller software or via a mobile app. Not sure if you can configure the switches using the mobile app, but if you're going for a flat network then there's noting to configure on the switches(tplink/aruba/unifi) anyway.

Unfortunately, have already inked with ST as I needed the internet to be up asap this month for some testing.

If you don't host anything and just surf the web, it shouldn't really affect you lah TBH. Don't worry too much about it if you're not hosting anything on the internet.

 

[myth_shenhua]

Never used tplink, but in terms of feature set unifi and aruba should be pretty similar for the most part. If you're planning a flat network then it shouldn't matter what you go with honestly speaking.

One obvious difference is you can only configure unifi switches using the unifi controller software, whereas the Aruba InstantOn switches support local management via a web based GUI.
Unifi APs are configured using the same unifi controller software or via a mobile app. Not sure if you can configure the switches using the mobile app, but if you're going for a flat network then there's noting to configure on the switches(tplink/aruba/unifi) anyway.


If you don't host anything and just surf the web, it shouldn't really affect you lah TBH. Don't worry too much about it if you're not hosting anything on the internet.

Thank you for the clarification !!
You are spot on - my home internet will mainly be used for surfing the web, zoom calls, TV streaming, CCTVs.
Will not have any hardcore stuff like hosting, or even gaming.

So I guess everything is good to go.
I will check with my builder if it is possible to future proof with better APs and potentially get an upgraded switch (link you shared on Aruba).

 

[-Grift-]

Since you're going to subscribe 2 fibre lines, you'd probably want to load balance both connections for a little bit of redundancy. The router that SH or M1 provide might not be able to do dual WAN load balancing.
Not sure how's the dual WAN support is on unifi routers, but the more expensive Asus routers and self built pfsense routers can do dual WAN, though the pfsense route requires a bit of elbow grease, which might not be a good idea if you're not technically inclined.


Anyway I see that your house is gonna be 3 levels tall, I suppose the walls will be concrete? If it's concrete you might want to install at least 2 APs per floor to maintain good wifi signal throughout the house. But of course a floor plan will be needed to give a more educated advice.

Also note the choice of APs, the AC-PRO is a previous gen wifi5 model. If I'm building new, I'd go for the newer wifi6 U6-LR.
Going with the price from lazada, a UAP-AC-PRO goes for $225 (though OOS) and the U6-LR goes for $300, so about an additional $75 per AP, but these APs should last a long time so imo it's fine to spend a little more, but ymmv.

A slightly cheaper alternative will be the aruba instanton AP22 at $270. I haven't used any of the instanton APs since it only support cloud management with no provision for local management, but so far that's the biggest gripe I've seen about the instanton APs, haven't really seen anything bad about it apart from the lack of local management.


Consider having at least 1 data point in each room, preferably 2 data points. Once the house is built, you're probably not going to run anymore ethernet cables in the future when you need them.
Rational for laying ethernet cables is wifi is a shared medium, if everything goes on wifi, you might run into contention issues when everyone tries to use the internet wireless simultaneously, though with wifi6 it shouldn't be that big of an issue unlike with wifi 4 and wifi5.


Regarding ONT vs ONR, so long you avoid singtel fibre you're fine, imo no reason to go with them anyway unless you're tagging on mio tv or some other services... The price isn't competitive anyway.

https://sg.store.ui.com/collections/unifi-network-wirelessSome stuff cheaper direct from Ubiquiti SG Store as well

 

[Mach3.2]

https://sg.store.ui.com/collections/unifi-network-wirelessSome stuff cheaper direct from Ubiquiti SG Store as well

a lot of it isn't in stock also, same deal as their US store...

Almost forget they sell directly to SG.

 

[myth_shenhua]

Requested for U6-Pro and my builder's contact charges a sharp margin above (in other words, chop carrot) what I see on Ubiquiti SG store (although, SG store shows OOS).

I am now deliberating between these options:

1) Unifi Stack w/ ASUS AX88U
Uniqi Dream Machine Pro Console (alr with 8 port) - Main one from fibre terminal
>> Does this work as ASUS AX88U for dual WAN?
TP LINK 8 PoE port - same place with Console
ASUS AX88U - in my master since AP might be weak
>>Can it be a mesh with my house wifi? Or no?
Upgrade 3* APs

2) ASUS AX88U but same config as provisioned
ASUS AX88U - Main one from fibre terminal, comes with 8 ports already
Switches 8 PoE and 24 port per provisioned
Upgrade 3* APs

Is there any discernible difference between 1) and 2)?

 

[Mach3.2]

Requested for U6-Pro and my builder's contact charges a sharp margin above (in other words, chop carrot) what I see on Ubiquiti SG store (although, SG store shows OOS).

I am now deliberating between these options:

1) Unifi Stack w/ ASUS AX88U
Uniqi Dream Machine Pro Console (alr with 8 port) - Main one from fibre terminal
>> Does this work as ASUS AX88U for dual WAN?
TP LINK 8 PoE port - same place with Console
ASUS AX88U - in my master since AP might be weak
>>Can it be a mesh with my house wifi? Or no?
Upgrade 3* APs

No idea whether the UDM Pro can do dual WAN properly or not, and I'm not too keen to look through their community forums to find out whether it actually does support dual WAN properly. If I'm you I'd rather use the AX88U for routing.

One thing about Ubiquiti is don't trust their marketing materials when they promise to add the feature somewhere in the future via a firmware upgrade. They have reneged on marketing promises enough times that no one should trust their marketing materials unless said features are already baking into the firmware.

2) ASUS AX88U but same config as provisioned
ASUS AX88U - Main one from fibre terminal, comes with 8 ports already
Switches 8 PoE and 24 port per provisioned
Upgrade 3* APs

Is there any discernible difference between 1) and 2)?

I'll gravitate more towards option 2.

Anyway I thought you said your contractor will test for dead spots? I presume they will fix any dead spots they found after installation (probably by instaling more access points) since there's really no point testing if they are not going to bother to fix it.