Alipay in China

[xiaofan]

I think China is trying hard to come up with an easy payment solution for tourist and this was one of the main topic being discussed during the recent concluded meeting . (两会）。

If I remembered reading from Hua Chung ying's account ( asst Minister in FA) she mentioned something about allowing foreigners to open a China bank account in order to linked them to WeChat Pay or Alipay.

Also mentioned that they will allow those unverified account to be able to use for a limited amount and also to increase the per year limit for each foreigner for those with verified account.

I think to allow tourist to open a RMB account when there is strict fx regulation... I think not so simple....I think they are trying to move into Digital Yuan where tracking would be possible.

Nice.

After reading your post, I found the following document from People's Bank China website (both English version and Chinese version in PDF format)

Guide to Payment Services in China​

http://www.pbc.gov.cn/en/3688110/3688172/5188125/5274061/index.html
http://www.pbc.gov.cn/en/3688110/3688172/5188125/5274061/2024031409525149488.pdf (English)
http://www.pbc.gov.cn/goutongjiaoliu/113456/113469/5273993/2024031409385483797.pdf (Chinese)

News:
https://english.www.gov.cn/news/202403/16/content_WS65f50078c6d0868f4e8e5255.html

The People's Bank of China, the country's central bank, released on Thursday a payment guide which provides foreigners with text and graphic instructions on using bank cards, cash, mobile payment and e-CNY in China.

No ID is required for transactions under a certain amount when foreigners use mobile payments such as Alipay, Weixin Pay and UnionPay. Some international e-wallets such as TrueMoney, which originated in Thailand, and Naver Pay, which is frequently used in South Korea, are directly accepted by merchants in China. Foreigners can also open bank accounts with passports or other valid ID at major banks such as Industrial and Commercial Bank of China.

According to Wang Pengbo, a senior analyst at market consultancy Botong Analysys, the requirement on ID for mobile payments in China used to be the major barrier making foreigners reluctant to connect mobile payment tools such as Alipay with their overseas bank cards.

Another major hurdle, which was the payment limit, was addressed at the beginning of this month when the PBOC announced that the single mobile payment transaction limit for foreigners in China was being increased from $1,000 to $5,000 and the annual limit was being increased from $10,000 to $50,000, said Wang.

 

[xiaofan]

I think with the economy in such a bad state and tourism numbers in dire straits too, they will seriously make it convenient for foreigners to spend money in the country.

Indeed.

The issue of Guide to Payment Services in China is kind of showing that.

 

[16/8IF]

My family speaks freely with me from within the wall. They can loosen currency control for foreign nationals without loosening anything else. Previously they did not bother because the greater concern was about money flowing out. Now that is watertight, they can loosen it up for tourists and the like of us.

Hope you are right. I don't spend much these days in China as I usually spend about 3-4 weeks but next trip most likely 45 days even than my expenditure will not be a lot as I stay in my own apartment, cook my own food, buy from the local wet market . Dont patronized the entertainment area like I used to when I was younger.

Now mostly spend on buying stuff from taobao/1688 and bring them when I fly back to China.

 

[xiaofan]

I did state that I was visiting and a tourist and they assisted after verifying and checking internal w management and regulations.
So from my experience, I beg to differ. But I get where you are coming from since I do not exactly have "official documentations".

I am also looking for the official document now that there is mentioning of openning a mainland bank account in the Guide to Payment Services in China document issued by People's Bank of China. So there may be changes in the near future.

FYI, I failed to open a bank accound back in 2017/2018 during my short visit to China using my passport. They asked for resident permit （外国人居留证）with one year validty.

The following is from the guide.
http://www.pbc.gov.cn/en/3688110/3688172/5188125/5274061/2024031409525149488.pdf

 

[froztheart]

I think with the economy in such a bad state and tourism numbers in dire straits too, they will seriously make it convenient for foreigners to spend money in the country.

My family speaks freely with me from within the wall. They can loosen currency control for foreign nationals without loosening anything else. Previously they did not bother because the greater concern was about money flowing out. Now that is watertight, they can loosen it up for tourists and the like of us.

Dire straits or not, loosening inflow doesn't do any harm, since outflow is restricted. And control is also not availble to foreigners so you cannot come in with hot money and do a dine and dash to bring down China's economy.
IMO, more advantages than disadvantages especially with more visitors to China experiencing the real China as compared to the propoganda etc. which will further enhance the tourism and inflow of money.

If they really loosen , than I worry means the economy is really bad.....Xi is a "control freak" , u will understand more if u have chinese friends who are willing to speak freely with u.

Yes, I do have friends and close ties there. Of course there are negatives, but in general, most do understand why as China is huge as compared to anywhere else.
You need a strong and clear minded leader to tide through tough times, otherwise, it will be a mess with everyone wanting a say in where the country is headed to and end up with nowhere at the end of the day.
Tough decisions have to be made to ensure surivival, at the least, most of what is done benefits most of the Chinese citizens. Similar to how LKY is back then, doing what's necessary to get to objective.

 

[froztheart]

Nice.

After reading your post, I found the following document from People's Bank China website (both English version and Chinese version in PDF format)

Guide to Payment Services in China​

http://www.pbc.gov.cn/en/3688110/3688172/5188125/5274061/index.html
http://www.pbc.gov.cn/en/3688110/3688172/5188125/5274061/2024031409525149488.pdf (English)
http://www.pbc.gov.cn/goutongjiaoliu/113456/113469/5273993/2024031409385483797.pdf (Chinese)

News:
https://english.www.gov.cn/news/202403/16/content_WS65f50078c6d0868f4e8e5255.html

The People's Bank of China, the country's central bank, released on Thursday a payment guide which provides foreigners with text and graphic instructions on using bank cards, cash, mobile payment and e-CNY in China.

No ID is required for transactions under a certain amount when foreigners use mobile payments such as Alipay, Weixin Pay and UnionPay. Some international e-wallets such as TrueMoney, which originated in Thailand, and Naver Pay, which is frequently used in South Korea, are directly accepted by merchants in China. Foreigners can also open bank accounts with passports or other valid ID at major banks such as Industrial and Commercial Bank of China.

According to Wang Pengbo, a senior analyst at market consultancy Botong Analysys, the requirement on ID for mobile payments in China used to be the major barrier making foreigners reluctant to connect mobile payment tools such as Alipay with their overseas bank cards.

Another major hurdle, which was the payment limit, was addressed at the beginning of this month when the PBOC announced that the single mobile payment transaction limit for foreigners in China was being increased from $1,000 to $5,000 and the annual limit was being increased from $10,000 to $50,000, said Wang.

Indeed.

The issue of Guide to Payment Services in China is kind of showing that.

Awesome with this new loosening and enhanced regulation, have to make it a point to check it out when I am back there again.
Definitely aid in providing convenience and inflow to China for consumption.

 

[16/8IF]

Dire straits or not, loosening inflow doesn't do any harm, since outflow is restricted. And control is also not availble to foreigners so you cannot come in with hot money and do a dine and dash to bring down China's economy.
IMO, more advantages than disadvantages especially with more visitors to China experiencing the real China as compared to the propoganda etc. which will further enhance the tourism and inflow of money in.


Yes, I do have friends and close ties there. Of course there are negatives, but in general, most do understand why as China is huge as compared to anywhere else.
You need a strong and clear minded leader to tide through tough times, otherwise, it will be a mess with everyone wanting a say in where the country is headed to and end up with nowhere at the end of the day.
Tough decisions have to be made to ensure surivival, at the least, most of what is done benefits most of the Chinese citizens. Similar to how LKY is back then, doing what's necessary to get to objective.

I hope you are right but that is not the vibes i get from my Chinese Friends and some of them are in G service.
Most will be worse off if China don't do well going forward - so for me definitely hope u are right .

 

[froztheart]

I am also looking for the official document now that there is mentioning of openning a mainland bank account in the Guide to Payment Services in China document issued by People's Bank of China. So there may be changes in the near future.

FYI, I failed to open a bank accound back in 2017/2018 during my short visit to China using my passport. They asked for resident permit （外国人居留证）with one year validty.

The following is from the guide.
http://www.pbc.gov.cn/en/3688110/3688172/5188125/5274061/2024031409525149488.pdf

Yes, BOC requested for documentation, while ICBC was able to allow account opening.
So it seems like application of regulation is subjective dependent on each branch's staff.
Hopefully with this loosening, staff are educated to facilitate as per regulation.

 

[xiaofan]

I am also looking for the official document now that there is mentioning of openning a mainland bank account in the Guide to Payment Services in China document issued by People's Bank of China. So there may be changes in the near future.

FYI, I failed to open a bank accound back in 2017/2018 during my short visit to China using my passport. They asked for resident permit （外国人居留证）with one year validty.

Yes, BOC requested for documentation, while ICBC was able to allow account opening.
So it seems like application of regulation is subjective dependent on each branch's staff.
Hopefully with this loosening, staff are educated to facilitate as per regulation.

Unfortunately I can not find a good official guide from the Bank of China and ICBC China website.

What I found so far are all kind of older info (2022) and not officially from the bank.

The following site does mention about the following which is in line with my year 2017/2018 experiences.
外国人居留许可复印件/永久居留证复印件：有效期应在1年以上

But let's hope there will be loosening of the requirements in the near future.

++++++++++++++++
https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/551136964

首先是办理中国电话卡.
有了手机卡以后，就可以用来接收手机短信验证码选择银行进行开户了。

开户必备资料

1、有效护照：护照在有效期之内

2、工作证明：需包含外国人姓名、职位等信息（如持工作类居留许可）

3、外国人居留许可复印件/永久居留证复印件：有效期应在1年以上，且距到期日应在1个月以上

开户流程

1、开通电话卡

在国内办理银行卡之前，需要先实名购买电话卡并开通，这样才能在转账时收到验证码。外国人本人带护照去营业厅办理。

2、带齐所需资料，前往大银行办理银行卡

部分大银行有护照阅读器相关设备，可以为国外友人办理银行卡提供便捷，同时做到防伪核验功能，方便快捷节省时间。

如：Bank of China 中国银行：申请人在带齐开户必备资料的情况下，仍需填写一份个人开户及综合服务申请表、一份个人税收居民身份声明文件。

ICBC 中国工商银行：带齐开户必备资料之后，只需要进一步填写一张个人客户资料登记表即可。

3、银行卡办卡费用：办卡手续费5元，年费10元/年

4、此时申请人要提供本人名下的电话号码，以备接收银行短信及验证使用。

5、填写申请，银行通过审核，开户成功，开通个人网上银行，手机银行。
+++++++++++++++

 

[froztheart]

I hope you are right but that is not the vibes i get from my Chinese Friends and some of them are in G service.
Most will be worse off if China don't do well going forward - so for me definitely hope u are right .

These are my inference from intereractions, visits and news whenever I am in China.
Same here, half is in the G, while other half is in business thus, the ancedotes and sharing are well rounded imo, which as my earlier comment, its for a better good of the future of China, hopefully.
And yes, China NEEDS to do well to enable it to sustain the population and its impending problems. Absolutely not an easy feat.

 

[turtle2018]

My wife is still sending every 6 months to a China relative who is helping us to take care of our apartment ( mgt fees etc etc) and the China National is also receiving foreign currencies first and have to present ID and bank card at the teller counter to fix the fx rate and change before the rmb is reflected into the account.

I

There is another method which I used in Jan 2024, use DBS Remit to transfer the S$ (at a pre-agreed rate) to the Recipient (must be Chinese citizen)'s Alipay wallet. Important: Recipient must go into his/ her Alipay a/c & 开通 “支付宝速收款".

https://www.dbs.com.sg/personal/sup...payments-textlink-country-specific-infomation

 

[xiaofan]

There is another method which I used in Jan 2024, use DBS Remit to transfer the S$ (at a pre-agreed rate) to the Recipient (must be Chinese citizen)'s Alipay wallet. Important: Recipient must go into his/ her Alipay a/c & 开通 “支付宝速收款".

https://www.dbs.com.sg/personal/sup...payments-textlink-country-specific-infomation

I noticed this as well but when I tried the method last year it failed. I do not know why and did not try again. In the end I use the other method -- to register the recipients bank card info as well as postal address, Chinese ID card number and mobile phone number. Supporsedly China Alipay account has anyway verfied info as well.

 

[turtle2018]

I noticed this as well but when I tried the method last year it failed. I do not know why and did not try again. In the end I use the other method -- to register the recipients bank card info as well as postal address, Chinese ID card number and mobile phone number. Supporsedly China Alipay account has anyway verfied info as well.

If I recall correctly, this method was available during 2023. I tried but unsuccessful. I sent my queries via DBS Digibot, & after a few round of exchanges, I still could not resolve the issue. So I had to find other ways to send the monies to my relative (Chinese citizen).
In Jan 2024, I decided to try again. This time unsuccessful, but after probing deeper via DBS Digibot, the DBS staff finally mentioned these detailed requirements (not in their FAQ):
1. Alipay wallet is linked to a China number
2. Alipay wallet is linked to a China Bank card
3. Linked China Bank card is enabled for overseas funds transfer
4. Alipay beneficiary also need to enroll for Alipay Quick Collect on his/ her end

I asked my relative to explore & activate 支付宝速收款, and finally the transfer was successful. At my end, I need to input the S$ amount, system will work out the rate & CNY amount, once I agree & click, the S$ will be deducted from my DBS S$ a/c, and the recipient (must be Chinese citizen) will receive the CNY in his/ her Alipay wallet.

 

[xiaofan]

If I recall correctly, this method was available during 2023. I tried but unsuccessful. I sent my queries via DBS Digibot, & after a few round of exchanges, I still could not resolve the issue. So I had to find other ways to send the monies to my relative (Chinese citizen).
In Jan 2024, I decided to try again. This time unsuccessful, but after probing deeper via DBS Digibot, the DBS staff finally mentioned these detailed requirements (not in their FAQ):
1. Alipay wallet is linked to a China number
2. Alipay wallet is linked to a China Bank card
3. Linked China Bank card is enabled for overseas funds transfer
4. Alipay beneficiary also need to enroll for Alipay Quick Collect on his/ her end

I asked my relative to explore & activate 支付宝速收款, and finally the transfer was successful. At my end, I need to input the S$ amount, system will work out the rate & CNY amount, once I agree & click, the S$ will be deducted from my DBS S$ a/c, and the recipient (must be Chinese citizen) will receive the CNY in his/ her Alipay wallet.

Wow, thanks a lot for the detailed info. Really apreciated!

 

[turtle2018]

Yes, I'm enquiring on how to do it w convenience (e.g web/mobile transfers) to get funds from SG to my CN bank account.

Just curious, why don't you just open a "S$/CNY dual currency a/c" at BOC-SG or ICBC-SG, and use their Union Pay Debit Card whilst in China, e.g. withdraw from China ATM, or at the merchants' POS? The CNY withdrawn/ spent will be deducted from the "S$/CNY dual currency a/c".

 

[16/8IF]

There is another method which I used in Jan 2024, use DBS Remit to transfer the S$ (at a pre-agreed rate) to the Recipient (must be Chinese citizen)'s Alipay wallet. Important: Recipient must go into his/ her Alipay a/c & 开通 “支付宝速收款".

https://www.dbs.com.sg/personal/sup...payments-textlink-country-specific-infomation

Wow nice, Thank You for your suggestion think lots of people here can benefit from this information.
These are the type of information that is required ie those who have "tested" it and it works for them.

Anyway for me, I don't bank with DBS and also now my Wife is used to doing the current method and also it is also only twice a year. There is also another reasons why I think I will keep this method as I want to keep a money trail for anything concerning my apartment, don't want to be in a situation later like what happened to Mark Mobius. In the remittance form the reasons for TT have to be stated so I keep a hard copy of them.

I actually setup a GIRO payment with a China Bank to take care of all my monthly payment. It was going fine for more than 5-8 years till during Covid where all the deduction was "disabled" and the bank required the account holder to present themselves to the bank with passport and bank card. Of Course that was not possible, so had to arrange for our relative to do the necessary payments.

Above is just to state why I wont be using what you suggest which is a very very good suggestion but for my case, I have to stick to my present method.

After Covid, I travel yearly for 3-4 weeks and I carry cash as well.
I changed in SG whenever I think the fx rate is attractive and bring them along when I travel.

I actually have another solution is to transfer from my China bank account to my WeChat account and use this to transfer to my relative, but as stated this method does not allow me to have 'hard copy' money trails record so I will still stick to what my wife is doing.

I have basically 2 WeChat & 1 Alipay account.

One of the WeChat accounts is setup the same as the local ie linked with China bank account and china tel number.
Only difference is verifications by passport which again is the most important to distinguished between local & foreigner's account.

As long as in China there is no difference on usage but once outside of China there is a difference. eg in foreign countries China local account can be used where it is approved for use but NOT for my this account, as it is NOT verified by China ID.

The balance acct was setup as passport, SG CC and China banks cards. No difference in usage as compared to the above card especially Alipay where you can set the priority of deduction from Wallet, than China bank account and lastly SG CC. WeChat does not have this function.

With the new 30 days visa free, most likely I will spend 45 days this year and if I have free time will pop into the banks to enquire about various options especially with the suggested " new guidelines" discussed in the recently conducted 两会。 I will post the finding here if I have them, eg effective date etc etc

Thanks once again for sharing your personal experience and it works.

Quo

 

[commandowolf]

If I recall correctly, this method was available during 2023. I tried but unsuccessful. I sent my queries via DBS Digibot, & after a few round of exchanges, I still could not resolve the issue. So I had to find other ways to send the monies to my relative (Chinese citizen).
In Jan 2024, I decided to try again. This time unsuccessful, but after probing deeper via DBS Digibot, the DBS staff finally mentioned these detailed requirements (not in their FAQ):
1. Alipay wallet is linked to a China number
2. Alipay wallet is linked to a China Bank card
3. Linked China Bank card is enabled for overseas funds transfer
4. Alipay beneficiary also need to enroll for Alipay Quick Collect on his/ her end

I asked my relative to explore & activate 支付宝速收款, and finally the transfer was successful. At my end, I need to input the S$ amount, system will work out the rate & CNY amount, once I agree & click, the S$ will be deducted from my DBS S$ a/c, and the recipient (must be Chinese citizen) will receive the CNY in his/ her Alipay wallet.

I was looking at panda remit, same process and requirements. Asked my china friend to set up the 闪速收款QR，transferred $3k sgd to avoid remittance fees, exchanged at the offered 5.35 rate and it was in the Alipay wallet. My friend then transferred to my Alipay wallet. Overall less than 10 minutes.

I also have a ichange card / account set up, exchanged SGD to RMB at 5.42, i asked customer service, say that can withdraw via ATM with mastercard support, $5sgd fee to withdraw. Daily limit up to ~$695sgd worth in foreign currency. But i read that China ATM limit is 2500RMB per withdrawal (~460sgd), so effective withdrawal rate more like 5.36 if take into account $5 withdrawal fee. Then plan to ask hotel / tour guide to exchange the cash to my alipay wallet balance. Will test when I am in China next week.

Previously I can turn on Alipay 商家服务 for 2 SG people accounts, just accept the terms and conditions, after 1 day can scan the other persons 收款QR, will now say "Pay" instead of "Transfer", and you can choose your ichange / youtrip card for the payment. Limited to 200rmb to avoid 3% service fee. Must keep going in and out of the "Receive" tab on the receiving person to generate new QR receive, I managed to send roughly 2600rmb, before kena Alipay restriction and require verification of the card used. Problem being even after appeal is successful, still can "Pay" the other person's QR code, but cannot choose credit card anymore. I can still pay other people with credit card, just not the initial person i sending to. Guess that is how China is preventing non China nationals from abusing the system. I asked the chat support, keep saying that this is supported only for China nationals and in china payments only for credit card payment, out of china not supported.

 

[16/8IF]

I thought it should be useful for information ( the douyin link).
that DO NOT receive money in your WeChat or Alipay account from people you don't know , especially people who offer to topup your rmb account for your SGD .

This is one example where unknown source of funds can causes problem for you .

As foreigner , their legal system is different from other countries and you might find yourself being "detained" just because you try to save on a few dollars of administration fees which ultimately could cause much more money in lawyer's fee ( which will come at a premium when they know you are a foreigner).

As Tourist, I think just pay the fees and have a trouble free visit , that is my personal advice to those who intend to tour China and not for business etc etc.



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[vibranze]

Alipay Tour Pass is back ..................

I tried to sign up but didn't get any SMS no matter how I tried with the phone combination. Are you able to receive the SMS?


screaming emoticons

 

[froztheart]

Just curious, why don't you just open a "S$/CNY dual currency a/c" at BOC-SG or ICBC-SG, and use their Union Pay Debit Card whilst in China, e.g. withdraw from China ATM, or at the merchants' POS? The CNY withdrawn/ spent will be deducted from the "S$/CNY dual currency a/c".

Currently have not opened a SG ICBC account thus, looking at ways to get it done with other banks/other official methods to transfer over.