Alipay in China

[froztheart]

1) As far as I know, right now the only safe method to transfer money back to PRC National's China bank account is to use bank remitting services from banks like POSB and ICBC as well as few other approved channels like Singtel Dash (unfortunately no official list of these approved channels).

Yes the exchange rate provided by POSB/ICBC may not be the best but reasonable.

2) Last time (for many years until 2022) T/T was not a good method. The preferred method was to use the various 3rd party remitting services in places like the shopping malls and China Town areas, as the exchange rate was higher than the banks. They are no longer safe now based on various reports.

We have first hand experineces that my father-in-law's account was frozen in 2022 after we sent money to the account using the service from the nearby shopping mall. He was able to get the account back when he went back to China in April 2023 (but others may not be so lucky). Now we only use POSB remitting service.

3) Info from Singtel Dash -- this seems to indicate that it is okay to send money to those with official Alipay or WeChat wallet, including foreign nationals with proper visa in China (not for tourists).

Where in China can I remit money to with Singtel Dash?​

Your beneficiary can receive money using any of the following methods:
(1) China UnionPay card
(2) any bank account linked to an Alipay account
(3) WeChat wallet or linked bank card

4) But the case of froztheart is tricky. I do not know of a good way as he is not a China National and his account can not receive money with the normal bank transfer method (T/T).

Seems like I have to make a trip down to SG banks to figure out how to transfer money over to my CN account.
Forex rate is not a concern for now, main crux is how as a SIngaporean, to even get funds from SG to my CN account.
I believe the next missing piece is not having a 多币种综合账户 on China's end.

hi, you can do a SWIFT, using non RMB (eg. EUR, GBP, USD). The funds will reach the china account but remains unconverted. It may also indicate a 汇 to indicate it's foreign funds. Then do a FX into RMB. The receiving bank needs to support multi currency.

Only thing is SG banks charges so expensive for Swift.

PS: i , remitted USD into own china ICBC account. Wasnt asked for any docs, just do a FX debit credit after the USD reach china acct.

Yes, seems like the missing piece is to have a 多币种综合账户.
Just to check, you remitted through which local bank and do you have an existing account with the bank that you remitted through? ICBC too or?

 

[froztheart]

Indeed it will be good to provide a list of banks or legitimate 3rd party services to send money to a mainland China bank account.

But there are different types of recipients. [Sender can be Singapore citizen].

I have no ideas how to send money back to the account of the 3rd type and 4th type of recipients from Singapore. By right TT (Swift based bank transfer) should work if the China bank account supports multi currency.

1) China nationals with mainland China bank account (and associated China Wechat Pay/China Alipay account, as well mobile number in China)

• POSB/ICBC RMB remitting service will work.
• Legitimate 3rd party services like Singtel Dash will work.
• SWIFT bank transfer (T/T) will work. The receiving bank needs to support multi currency. Usually this method will not be used as it is slow, with high fees and less favorable exchange rate.

2) Foreigh nationals with valid visas to stay in China for business/study (not tourists), with valid mainland China bank account (and associated China Wechat Pay/China Alipay account, as well mobile number in China)

• Legitimate 3rd party services like Singtel Dash will work. Need confirmation.
• SWIFT bank transfer (T/T) will work. The receiving bank needs to support multi currency.

3) Foreigh nationals used to have valid visas to stay in China for business/study (not tourists), with valid mainland China bank account, but no longer holding such visa and may not even have a valid China mobile phone number now. Usually no valid China Wechat Pay or China Alipay account.

• SWIFT bank transfer (T/T) will work (need confirmation). The receiving bank needs to support multi currency.
• Physically deposite money to the account in person should work.

4) Foreigh nationals who somehow were able to set up a China bank account as a tourist. They may or may not have a valid China mobile phone number now. Usually no valid China Wechat Pay or China Alipay account.

• SWIFT bank transfer (T/T) will work (need confirmation). The receiving bank needs to support multi currency.
• Physically deposite money to the account in person should work.

Yes, I believe and presume that 3 & 4 is applicable for most people out here. Since 2 will not have an issue to begin with, as there is valid documentations etc.
Though, having a valid China mobile number isn't an issue for those that visited China either as tourist or have left but was previously there with visas.

 

[16/8IF]

Ahhh, okay. So you went the manual way to "deposit" money to your CN account.

Yes, I'm enquiring on how to do it w convenience (e.g web/mobile transfers) to get funds from SG to my CN bank account.
Apologies if it wasn't clear.

Read the post by Garlic & Butter he seems to be able to do it . The last part of his post .

Maybe my next trip to China will ask the bank about it .

 

[xiaofan]

Yes, I believe and presume that 3 & 4 is applicable for most people out here. Since 2 will not have an issue to begin with, as there is valid documentations etc.
Though, having a valid China mobile number isn't an issue for those that visited China either as tourist or have left but was previously there with visas.

I tend to think Type 1 (China Nationals) and Type 2 (Singaporean staying in China with valid visting visas, not tourists) are the majority of the recepients.

But for this paticual forum thread, then yes I think Type 3 and 4 are of the main concerns even though this is a niche use case. Majority of the Singaporeans will not have mainland China bank account anyway. Type 4 seems to be a loophole and pretty rare.

I want to split Type 3 into two sub-cateriories. 3a will be similar to Type 2. Then we can focus the discussion on Type 3b and Type 4.

Method 1: physically present in China and deposit the money
Some of them may visit China from time to time, then the easist way is to depost some money using the ATM machine.

Method 2: using SWIFT based bank transfer
If not using method 1, then the only legitimate way seems to be using SWIFT based transfer method (eg: T/T) though the banks in Singapore. The receiving bank account needs to support multi-currency.

Not so sure if there are any easier way (eg: online, mobile banking, app, etc).

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
3a) Foreigh nationals used to have valid visas to stay in China for business/study (not tourists), with valid mainland China bank account, but no longer holding such visa. But they keep a valid China mobile phone number and keep a valid China Wechat Pay or China Alipay account.

Similar to Type 2.

Type 3b) Foreigh nationals used to have valid visas to stay in China for business/study (not tourists), with valid mainland China bank account, but no longer holding such visa and may or may not have a valid China mobile phone number now. No valid China Wechat Pay or China Alipay account.

Type 4) Foreigh nationals who somehow were able to set up a China bank account as a tourist. They may or may not have a valid China mobile phone number now. No valid China Wechat Pay or China Alipay account.
+++++++++++++

 

[beanstalk6]

This seems to be the normal way and kind of the "universal way". The other way may be to use Money Order.

We were using this method many years back. But later we found it cheaper and faster to use the remitting services in the shopping centres.

My wife uses her father's Alipay/Taobao account (linked to his bank account) for Taobao shopping since 2015. He father is a Chinese citizen. Then we need to send money to the bank account from time to time. We were using the remitting services in the shopping centres from 2015 to early 2022.

Only when the account of my father-in-law was frozen in early 2022, we got to know method like POSB remitting service to China nationals. We were kind of prepared to lose the money (about RMB3000 remaining). Luckily he was able to get the account back when he went back to China in April 2023.

Lesson learned and now we only use POSB Remitting services through online banking.

I have ever used Money Order (POSB), telegraph transfer (via local bank and third-party at People's Park and Western Union) and even intermediary HK bank. Telegraph transfers via third-parties at People's Park and Western Union are now officially discouraged. For the time being one should use direct bank to bank even if it costs more.

 

[Garlic & Butter]

Seems like I have to make a trip down to SG banks to figure out how to transfer money over to my CN account.
Forex rate is not a concern for now, main crux is how as a SIngaporean, to even get funds from SG to my CN account.
I believe the next missing piece is not having a 多币种综合账户 on China's end.



Yes, seems like the missing piece is to have a 多币种综合账户.
Just to check, you remitted through which local bank and do you have an existing account with the bank that you remitted through? ICBC too or?

Nope, i used CIMB malaysia account. Its really more of an experiment. as I swap SGD> MYR> USD and then to RMB.

the TT rate for CIMB MY is only RM10 flat but FX spread is 2%.

my usual way is to bring cash and deposit into the ATMs or use a Singapore ATM card to withdraw and then deposit.

my ICBC account is a CNY account but the staff say able to receive foreign currency. I havent tried remitting funds out before though. They didnt label my account as multi ccy or NRA etc, so need to ask the bank make sure can receive foreign funds. I also cant trf CNY directly to myself to Alipay etc as i dont hold any visas

 

[16/8IF]

Indeed it will be good to provide a list of banks or legitimate 3rd party services to send money to a mainland China bank account.

But there are different types of recipients. [Sender can be Singapore citizen].

I have no ideas how to send money back to the account of the 3rd type and 4th type of recipients from Singapore. By right TT (Swift based bank transfer) should work if the China bank account supports multi currency.

1) China nationals with mainland China bank account (and associated China Wechat Pay/China Alipay account, as well mobile number in China)

• POSB/ICBC RMB remitting service will work.
• Legitimate 3rd party services like Singtel Dash will work.
• SWIFT bank transfer (T/T) will work. The receiving bank needs to support multi currency. Usually this method will not be used as it is slow, with high fees and less favorable exchange rate.

2) Foreigh nationals with valid visas to stay in China for business/study (not tourists), with valid mainland China bank account (and associated China Wechat Pay/China Alipay account, as well mobile number in China)

• Legitimate 3rd party services like Singtel Dash will work. Need confirmation.
• SWIFT bank transfer (T/T) will work. The receiving bank needs to support multi currency.

3) Foreigh nationals used to have valid visas to stay in China for business/study (not tourists), with valid mainland China bank account, but no longer holding such visa and may not even have a valid China mobile phone number now. Usually no valid China Wechat Pay or China Alipay account.

I am in the category, but have valid WeChat Pay and Alipay linked to the account.

Even when I had the work visa and resident visa, when my wife TT me from Singapore, SGD goes first into the muti currencies account. ( since 2016 I no had those visa but the account still works as per normal , no changed).

as long as I don't bring along my passport and bank card to the teller/counter. It remains as SGD in the account and will not be reflexed in the RMB balances.

In Short definitely must have a multi currencies account in China otherwise it wont work for a foreigner.

For China Nationals, from what I have experienced with my friends and relative. When I send them money from Singapore to their account in China.( normal account and not multi currencies).

This SGD first entered in the Bank's account (not their account) they will received an sms from the bank to state that they have foreign currencies in their account.

They too have to bring their ID and bank card to the counter/teller to get the fx rate for the day and convert them to RMB. They can leave it in their account or they can withdraw.

Before Covid, if I send money from SG at 10.am , by 2pm the same day they could withdraw them in China.
Last year, and early this year it took like 1 week before they release the money.

above is what I experienced personally.

Ps. when u go to a local bank to TT or filled up the remittance form it is basically swift bank transfer , because if it is the first time you are doing it at that bank, they want you to confirm the receviing bank swift address.

• SWIFT bank transfer (T/T) will work (need confirmation). The receiving bank needs to support multi currency.
• Physically deposite money to the account in person should work.

4) Foreigh nationals who somehow were able to set up a China bank account as a tourist. They may or may not have a valid China mobile phone number now. Usually no valid China Wechat Pay or China Alipay account.

• SWIFT bank transfer (T/T) will work (need confirmation). The receiving bank needs to support multi currency.
• Physically deposite money to the account in person should work.

Problem with this part here, is China is now tracking source of funds for anyone, so if the deposit cross a certain threshold, question will be raised and if u go over to Douyin there are some people explaining how to fill the forms and have to be very careful to select options "others' to avoid having tax problem.
The 2nd term of Xi, is more strict and complicated .

Those interested to know more about the strict policy now in banking should head over to Douyin, 3 to 6 months ago many many clips from various people explaining everything that is now changing in China.

 

[Moguls]

Alipay Tour pass cease operation from 15 Mar 2023 and restart back 22 April 2023.... During these period how ah? I going china for work, WeChat I have but can't pay.... Is there a work around?

Alipay Tour Pass is back ..................

 

[Moguls]

I have ever used Money Order (POSB), telegraph transfer (via local bank and third-party at People's Park and Western Union) and even intermediary HK bank. Telegraph transfers via third-parties at People's Park and Western Union are now officially discouraged. For the time being one should use direct bank to bank even if it costs more.

Agree. You are better off going to a remittance agency at People's Park for simplicity and low costs since you have no access to Alipay or a Chinese digital wallet.

Gotcha LOLL ~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[froztheart]

I tend to think Type 1 (China Nationals) and Type 2 (Singaporean staying in China with valid visting visas, not tourists) are the majority of the recepients.

But for this paticual forum thread, then yes I think Type 3 and 4 are of the main concerns even though this is a niche use case. Majority of the Singaporeans will not have mainland China bank account anyway. Type 4 seems to be a loophole and pretty rare.

I want to split Type 3 into two sub-cateriories. 3a will be similar to Type 2. Then we can focus the discussion on Type 3b and Type 4.

Method 1: physically present in China and deposit the money
Some of them may visit China from time to time, then the easist way is to depost some money using the ATM machine.

Method 2: using SWIFT based bank transfer
If not using method 1, then the only legitimate way seems to be using SWIFT based transfer method (eg: T/T) though the banks in Singapore. The receiving bank account needs to support multi-currency.

Not so sure if there are any easier way (eg: online, mobile banking, app, etc).

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
3a) Foreigh nationals used to have valid visas to stay in China for business/study (not tourists), with valid mainland China bank account, but no longer holding such visa. But they keep a valid China mobile phone number and keep a valid China Wechat Pay or China Alipay account.

Similar to Type 2.

Type 3b) Foreigh nationals used to have valid visas to stay in China for business/study (not tourists), with valid mainland China bank account, but no longer holding such visa and may or may not have a valid China mobile phone number now. No valid China Wechat Pay or China Alipay account.

Type 4) Foreigh nationals who somehow were able to set up a China bank account as a tourist. They may or may not have a valid China mobile phone number now. No valid China Wechat Pay or China Alipay account.
+++++++++++++

I don't think scenario 4 is a loop hole if tourist successfully opened an account w the bank. Moreover, banking is a strictly regulated industry.
I believe its more of the bank staff being educated enough to know what is available for tourist/foreigners.

Nope, i used CIMB malaysia account. Its really more of an experiment. as I swap SGD> MYR> USD and then to RMB.

the TT rate for CIMB MY is only RM10 flat but FX spread is 2%.

my usual way is to bring cash and deposit into the ATMs or use a Singapore ATM card to withdraw and then deposit.

my ICBC account is a CNY account but the staff say able to receive foreign currency. I havent tried remitting funds out before though. They didnt label my account as multi ccy or NRA etc, so need to ask the bank make sure can receive foreign funds. I also cant trf CNY directly to myself to Alipay etc as i dont hold any visas

ahhh, shall try it out.

I am in the category, but have valid WeChat Pay and Alipay linked to the account.

Even when I had the work visa and resident visa, when my wife TT me from Singapore, SGD goes first into the muti currencies account. ( since 2016 I no had those visa but the account still works as per normal , no changed).

as long as I don't bring along my passport and bank card to the teller/counter. It remains as SGD in the account and will not be reflexed in the RMB balances.

In Short definitely must have a multi currencies account in China otherwise it wont work for a foreigner.

For China Nationals, from what I have experienced with my friends and relative. When I send them money from Singapore to their account in China.( normal account and not multi currencies).

This SGD first entered in the Bank's account (not their account) they will received an sms from the bank to state that they have foreign currencies in their account.

They too have to bring their ID and bank card to the counter/teller to get the fx rate for the day and convert them to RMB. They can leave it in their account or they can withdraw.

Before Covid, if I send money from SG at 10.am , by 2pm the same day they could withdraw them in China.
Last year, and early this year it took like 1 week before they release the money.

above is what I experienced personally.

Ps. when u go to a local bank to TT or filled up the remittance form it is basically swift bank transfer , because if it is the first time you are doing it at that bank, they want you to confirm the receviing bank swift address.

Problem with this part here, is China is now tracking source of funds for anyone, so if the deposit cross a certain threshold, question will be raised and if u go over to Douyin there are some people explaining how to fill the forms and have to be very careful to select options "others' to avoid having tax problem.
The 2nd term of Xi, is more strict and complicated .

Those interested to know more about the strict policy now in banking should head over to Douyin, 3 to 6 months ago many many clips from various people explaining everything that is now changing in China.

But I believe with the new announcement, it should be better in future and such transfers into CN should not be as cumbersome.
Guess the only thing left is to open 多币种综合账户 and also check it out when I am back in China again to verify.

 

[xiaofan]

I don't think scenario 4 is a loop hole if tourist successfully opened an account w the bank. Moreover, banking is a strictly regulated industry.
I believe its more of the bank staff being educated enough to know what is available for tourist/foreigners.

Hmm, I think it is a loophole, especially now. Supposedly the person needs to have a valid business/study visa. It is just some banking staff may not understand the visa type well.

 

[16/8IF]

I don't think scenario 4 is a loop hole if tourist successfully opened an account w the bank. Moreover, banking is a strictly regulated industry.
I believe its more of the bank staff being educated enough to know what is available for tourist/foreigners.


ahhh, shall try it out.


But I believe with the new announcement, it should be better in future and such transfers into CN should not be as cumbersome.
Guess the only thing left is to open 多币种综合账户 and also check it out when I am back in China again to verify.

I think China is trying hard to come up with an easy payment solution for tourist and this was one of the main topic being discussed during the recent concluded meeting . (两会）。

If I remembered reading from Hua Chung ying's account ( asst Minister in FA) she mentioned something about allowing foreigners to open a China bank account in order to linked them to WeChat Pay or Alipay.

Also mentioned that they will allow those unverified account to be able to use for a limited amount and also to increase the per year limit for each foreigner for those with verified account.

I think to allow tourist to open a RMB account when there is strict fx regulation... I think not so simple....I think they are trying to move into Digital Yuan where tracking would be possible.

 

[froztheart]

Hmm, I think it is a loophole, especially now. Supposedly the person needs to have a valid business/study visa. It is just some banking staff may not understand the visa type well.

I did state that I was visiting and a tourist and they assisted after verifying and checking internal w management and regulations.
So from my experience, I beg to differ. But I get where you are coming from since I do not exactly have "official documentations".

I think China is trying hard to come up with an easy payment solution for tourist and this was one of the main topic being discussed during the recent concluded meeting . (两会）。

If I remembered reading from Hua Chung ying's account ( asst Minister in FA) she mentioned something about allowing foreigners to open a China bank account in order to linked them to WeChat Pay or Alipay.

Also mentioned that they will allow those unverified account to be able to use for a limited amount and also to increase the per year limit for each foreigner for those with verified account.

I think to allow tourist to open a RMB account when there is strict fx regulation... I think not so simple....I think they are trying to move into Digital Yuan where tracking would be possible.

If intending to spend and utlilise RMB, don't see any concern w the monitoring etc.
Similar to SG, the government can utilise banks, SPF CAD etc. to track fundings and investigate.

 

[16/8IF]

I did state that I was visiting and a tourist and they assisted after verifying and checking internal w management and regulations.
So from my experience, I beg to differ. But I get where you are coming from since I do not exactly have "official documentations".


If intending to spend and utlilise RMB, don't see any concern w the monitoring etc.
Similar to SG, the government can utilise banks, SPF CAD etc. to track fundings and investigate.

I think not similar to SG, just look at China the land size and the population size.
There is not only outward remittance limit for foreigners there is also inwards remittance limits. ( yearly limit).
I reached my inward remittance limits and had to wait for the following year in order to have RMB. You can reach this limit easily if you are buying big ticket item.
With China you cant use logic to think, if I am a tourist , I am here to spend money to help your country you mean also cannot spend ?

Another example you can google, Mark Mobius a famous financial guru , sold his apartment in Shanghai ( i think) and they ask him for all kinds of paperworks like from his pay slips at the time of his purchase which was if I am not wrong 5-10 years ago, who keep the pay slip that long... and he was stuck and that is why he "vented" on social media. He was among the earliest batch of financial guru to have a positive view on China.

 

[beanstalk6]

Gotcha LOLL ~~~~~~~~~~~~

Actually I am quite lazy to respond to your remark. You spent time to look back to 2021 for my post. In 2021 there were no problems with using remittance agencies. If only forummers check that far back when seeking advice. If only you can offer meaningful advice each time.

 

[16/8IF]

Actually I am quite lazy to respond to your remark. You spent time to look back to 2021 for my post. If only forummers check that far back when seeking advice. If only you can offer meaningful advice each time.

wa you spend time responding... I got the message when someone mentioned WOB... from than onwards I dont even read.

 

[froztheart]

I think not similar to SG, just look at China the land size and the population size.
There is not only outward remittance limit for foreigners there is also inwards remittance limits. ( yearly limit).
I reached my inward remittance limits and had to wait for the following year in order to have RMB. You can reach this limit easily is you are buying big ticket item.
With China you cant use logic to think, if I am a tourist , I am here to spend money to help your country you mean also cannot spend ?

I can understand why they have such regulations but it should be loosen to promote convenience and increase consumption externally.

 

[beanstalk6]

I can understand why they have such regulations but it should be loosen to promote convenience and increase consumption externally.

I think with the economy in such a bad state and tourism numbers in dire straits too, they will seriously make it convenient for foreigners to spend money in the country.

 

[16/8IF]

I can understand why they have such regulations but it should be loosen to promote convenience and increase consumption externally.

If they really loosen , than I worry means the economy is really bad.....Xi is a "control freak" , u will understand more if u have chinese friends who are willing to speak freely with u.

 

[beanstalk6]

If they really loosen , than I worry means the economy is really bad.....Xi is a "control freak" , u will understand more if u have chinese friends who are willing to speak freely with u.

My family speaks freely with me from within the wall. They can loosen currency control for foreign nationals without loosening anything else. Previously they did not bother because the greater concern was about money flowing out. Now that is watertight, they can loosen it up for tourists and the like of us.