Am i getting ripped off from the insurance in my portfolio?

maple96

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I am having this 'bug' about DDI should be above WL as I place them in the other sequence.

For DDI, one needs to stay employed and if being unemployed for x number of months, then the cover may lapse and if re-employ, one will need to re-apply which by then the health may not be fully insurable while WL covers from day 1 till one lapses the policy on own. Also, I wonder as a self-employed, one has to 'prove' income in the event of claims (this gets a bit complicated to me coz self employed income can fluctauate a lot).

Being a retiree, I am no longer eligible for DDI but still holding on to my WL (broken even) and long term disability insurance (can't really remember the difference btw a DDI and a long term disability insurance).

Agree with u. To me DII (your DDI typo) is "rubbish", for insurers/agents to con more money from people who have to excessive fear and greed to want free money and have excess cash to pay premiums just to transfer that remote risk to the insurer.

In crisis/recession like now, when people get retrenched and lose their job, need to tighten their belt, cut unnecessary spending, take care of necessities/essentials for survival, which insurance premium will they cut if they run of money, if they did not keep at least 6mths of emergency fund or milked dry?
 

Pyroxene

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Hi all,

1) Is it normal that my term plan assured sum is WAYYY higher than my whole life assured sum? My WL assured sum is a measly $30,000... is something wrong here?

It seems you do not know that a life plan carries surrender value because some of your money is used for investment. If you choose to terminate a life plan plan, or if the plan matures, you receive the cash value of the plan as of the time of surrender/maturity.

A term plan has zero surrender value because it is not invested. Thus, it makes sense that the life plan costs you more but gives you less protection.

And yes as mentioned by someone else, you should fire your agent if you emerged from your session with him or her, without grasping the above...:s13:
 

BBCWatcher

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For DDI, one needs to stay employed and if being unemployed for x number of months, then the cover may lapse and if re-employ, one will need to re-apply which by then the health may not be fully insurable while WL covers from day 1 till one lapses the policy on own.
It's DII (Disability Income Insurance), and what you describe is not accurate. The DII policies vary, but there is some tolerance for bouts of unemployment in most. However, I don't think any of them have any particular problem with policy continuation even if the unemployment is extended. You can still pay the premium and then, upon reemployment (or at least resumption of earned income from work), you're eligible for claims again. There's no need to bounce in/out of separate policies (unless you wish).

There are many insurance policies sold in Singapore that are fundamentally similar in nature. For example, if you have an Integrated Shield policy but spend a few months or a year in the United States, you really don't have any practical coverage. It's designed for hospitalization in Singapore, not in the U.S. However, you can keep paying your premiums, keep your policy in force, and then when you get back to Singapore there are no new preexisting condition exclusions and no new underwriting requirements since you kept the policy going. In fact, all the DII policies sold in Singapore have some tolerance for overseas postings (even for claims) if you're earning income from work.

Also, I wonder as a self-employed, one has to 'prove' income in the event of claims (this gets a bit complicated to me coz self employed income can fluctauate a lot).
Yes, but it's not particularly hard. You've still got IRAS and CPF records. Every insurance claim requires some degree of documentation of the loss. For example, if you've got a CI policy and want to make a claim based on advanced cancer, you have to submit proof you have cancer in the form of medical reports. The carrier may also demand past medical records to make sure you didn't know you had cancer (and failed to declare it) when signing up for the policy.

Being a retiree, I am no longer eligible for DDI but still holding on to my WL (broken even) and long term disability insurance (can't really remember the difference btw a DDI and a long term disability insurance).
Total and Permanent Disability (TPD) or possibly ElderShield. The fundamental difference is that the definition of disability is quite strict. Base ElderShield, for example, requires an inability to perform at least 3 out of 6 "Activities of Daily Living." There are (or were) ElderShield supplemental policies that could reduce that to 2 out of 6, but that's still quite difficult. CareShield Life has the same definition. DII is definitionally tied to a loss of income from work due to disability.

It's absolutely wrong to suggest that this (disability) is a remote risk. Unfortunately it's not -- and it's usually utterly financially devastating if experienced, i.e. it's truly catastrophic, which is precisely when insurance is most needed (if a money payout would help, and it certainly would with this catastrophe). As with death, with disability there's a loss of future income from work, but unlike death there are the higher costs of lingering. To the government's credit, it's very worried about this class of risks, which is why CareShield Life is compulsory with younger cohorts. But CSL doesn't even begin to replace most income if you lose it all (or most), and as mentioned it's quite tough to claim. That difficulty to claim is by design in order to keep premiums as low as possible for a near universal program.

Now, obviously if you're retired (or getting close to retirement) and can afford retirement you don't need DII. You don't have much or any future earning potential to insure. It's not a policy that's right for everyone, but it's critically important for many. And it's particularly important in Singapore because we don't have much of a social safety net to speak of and we have a high cost of living.
 
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mummynew

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It's DII (Disability Income Insurance), and what you describe is not accurate. The DII policies vary, but there is some tolerance for bouts of unemployment in most.

I have never gotten myself a DII cover before and so I dont have any policy contract to refer to. However, I remember ever read something along this line (extracted from Aviva Group DII info):

"To be entitled to an admissible claim, you must be gainfully employed at the time of the injury or illness and your disability must be medically certified by a registered medical practitioner."

"This insurance under the Policy will not be valid if the Insured Person is unemployed. The Insured Member is required to notify Aviva (i) to terminate the Policy when he/she is unemployed or (ii) to reassesss the coverage under the Policy if he/she has obtained new employment."

*Unable to post the link.


I feel unsettled for this kind of 'potentially be broken' cover as life in terms of employment is just so unpredictable.
 

Epidemik

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Maybe you can requote and replace if necessary to save on the overall premium. Which i have done for quite a number of my clients.
If you are pink of health to do that.

Especially aia power cc and the women plan. You can get must better coverage or plan with the premium.

Hello. Will you or anyone be able to advise on how much will it cost me for say,

100k coverage until 75 years old, for multi pay ECI + CI insurance as a combo?
28F/non smoker

Cause i think my standalone ECI and CI respectively, assured amount is too low.. :(
 

boredboiboi

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Hello. Will you or anyone be able to advise on how much will it cost me for say,

100k coverage until 75 years old, for multi pay ECI + CI insurance as a combo?
28F/non smoker

Cause i think my standalone ECI and CI respectively, assured amount is too low.. :(

I can quote for a few company. And you will realise you are over paying for the aia power cc.
Multipay does covers eci and ci, what do you mean by combo? And by the way 28 is age next birthday or next birthday is 29?
 

diediex

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Hello. Will you or anyone be able to advise on how much will it cost me for say,

100k coverage until 75 years old, for multi pay ECI + CI insurance as a combo?
28F/non smoker

Cause i think my standalone ECI and CI respectively, assured amount is too low.. :(

You can use the link below

http://www.comparefirst.sg

The term coverage only to 65 year old though, and doesn't include ECI.
You can use it as a base to explore further.
 

BBCWatcher

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I have never gotten myself a DII cover before and so I dont have any policy contract to refer to. However, I remember ever read something along this line (extracted from Aviva Group DII info):

"To be entitled to an admissible claim, you must be gainfully employed at the time of the injury or illness and your disability must be medically certified by a registered medical practitioner."

"This insurance under the Policy will not be valid if the Insured Person is unemployed. The Insured Member is required to notify Aviva (i) to terminate the Policy when he/she is unemployed or (ii) to reassesss the coverage under the Policy if he/she has obtained new employment."

*Unable to post the link.
I feel unsettled for this kind of 'potentially be broken' cover as life in terms of employment is just so unpredictable.
First of all, it’s quite strange to argue that one insurance policy that isn’t perfect means you shouldn’t insure at all. That doesn’t make any logical sense. That’s like arguing that because home insurance doesn’t cover losses due to war, riots, or insurrection you won’t get any home insurance.

Second, I think you probably missed the definitions section of the policy contract. In these DII policies “gainfully employed” has a definition. (And, relatedly, so does “unemployed.”) These definitions vary a bit, but there are DII policies that include (for example) 180 days within the most recent day of paid work as part of the “gainfully employed” period.

This article explains how these policies work and why they’re important. They do vary a bit, though, so it’s important to compare policy language, including the definitions section.
 

Mecisteus

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And somehow even amidst that big pile of insurance policies there’s no Disability Income Insurance. :s11:

Whether cash flow is an issue or not, it still makes sense to get the right coverage with maximum value. (See above.)

IMO DII is not worth it.

Government administered careshield is good enough for me.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...ver-eldershield-careshield-insurance-11094674

Previously, I opted out from eldershield. After this move, I signed up eldershield again.
 

SBC

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I agreed. From the start i mentioned =)
Their premium is always on the higher side

I got 2 of these Ace policies that are close to 30 years.

I got other non-Ace policies to compare with.
 

mummynew

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First of all, it’s quite strange to argue that one insurance policy that isn’t perfect means you shouldn’t insure at all. That doesn’t make any logical sense. That’s like arguing that because home insurance doesn’t cover losses due to war, riots, or insurrection you won’t get any home insurance.

Second, I think you probably missed the definitions section of the policy contract. In these DII policies “gainfully employed” has a definition. (And, relatedly, so does “unemployed.”) These definitions vary a bit, but there are DII policies that include (for example) 180 days within the most recent day of paid work as part of the “gainfully employed” period.


I didnt say one should not be insured for DII. What I am saying is I feel one should buy WL first then buy DII when budget permits (due to the high probable interrupting nature of DII cover with the part of having the risk of re-doing medical underwriting now and then).

Yes, I cant get hold of the detailed policy contract to read the fine prints on definitions. Just by reading on those published Aviva's broad sentences itself is not 'appetizing' (when one thinks about retrenchment/unemployed/no income), esp for men (such as my son) who tend to be more careless (likely to forget to update the insurer when they change jobs etc and that may render claims not admissible when such arise despite ignorantly still carry on paying premiums).
 

Mecisteus

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Why signed up ElderShield again since there is careshield?

I was born before 1979 so I just want to be automatically covered by careshield.

If you are a Singapore Citizen or Permanent Resident born in 1979 or earlier, you can choose to join CareShield Life from end-2021, if you are not severely disabled. To make joining CareShield Life more convenient, you will be automatically covered by CareShield Life from end-2021 if you are a Singapore Resident born between 1970 and 1979, are insured under the ElderShield 400 scheme, and are not severely disabled.
 

BBCWatcher

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I didnt say one should not be insured for DII. What I am saying is I feel one should buy WL first then buy DII when budget permits (due to the high probable interrupting nature of DII cover with the part of having the risk of re-doing medical underwriting now and then).
So I think we’ve already established that you didn’t understand or didn’t find DII that tolerates some unemployment (e.g. 180 days), which is definitely available in Singapore.

Why do you think whole life insurance would protect against loss of lifetime income due to disability? It just doesn’t. It might have a surrender value, eventually, but how is $23,000 of surrender value going to replace $2 million of future income and 52 years of future living expenses? (All these numbers are examples but realistic ones.) This just doesn’t make any sense!

I’m really confused how this is even debatable. The biggest asset by far most early and mid career individuals have is their future earning potential, and the loss of that income is utterly devastating in most cases. We properly defend dependents against that loss should we die too early via life insurance, but what if we lose it and don’t die? (And even if we don’t have dependents?) This is just utterly basic and logical, one would think. So does the government, although as I’ve explained CareShield life (a) is a small payout, and (b) is extremely difficult to claim due to its strict, narrow definition of disability. I’m glad it exists, but it’s not DII.

“What’s the plan?” Evidently you don’t like DII for some reason, so what’s your son (for example) supposed to do if he were to become disabled tomorrow and unable to earn income for life? What’s the viable, reasonable answer?
 
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Mecisteus

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Why do you think whole life insurance would protect against loss of lifetime income due to disability? It just doesn’t. It might have a surrender value, eventually, but how is $23,000 of surrender value going to replace $2 million of future income and 52 years of future living expenses? (All these numbers are examples but realistic ones.) This just doesn’t make any sense!

1) You should consider future value of potential expenses to be incurred. Not income.

2) You need to consider likelihood of making the claim. Toto also can give you $2M of potential earnings or income.

3) You need to consider premiums paid.

4) Then decide if potential payouts is worth the premiums.
 
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