Any bonus for NSF

[reddevil0728]

Now you are trying to find supporters for a bigger fight?
That is how cowards work.

lol. Need to find one meh? ok la ok la, I found supporters. At least I can find. What about you?

Bigger fight? Nah. I'm peace loving. No fight.

Cowards ah? Ok lor. If that floats your boat why not.

 

[reddevil0728]

I somehow agree NSF should be given some due recognition.

Don't everyone work for money? If not why not guys who posted here saying NSFs shouldn't be entitled to bonuses quit your job and not work instead.

Guys given their extra 2 years for that pittance, 2 years behind girls and foreigners in terms of work experience and monetary gains. Isn't too much that MINDEF gives some bonuses?

I don't think it's overboard or unreasonable given that the allowance paid are generally less then $1k...

recognition comes in many different forms.

It is a sweeping statement to say "don't everybody work for money". I don't think people who posted here is stating an opinion, but rather stating a factual information, you may have missed the point. The other point you might hv missed is NSF is not a job, it's an obligation, it's conscription. We are not some career soldiers.

Well sucks to be guys in Singapore I guess? Well at least in my opinion, it isn't too much, but what to do when MINDEF doesn't sees it that way? In addition, we are not talking about a handful of people we are talking about 10s and 1000s of NSF, it's not so easy say want give money means give money. Also bonuses can come in many shapes in forms. Off is an example of a bonus not an entitlement. But if your boss don't want to give LLST lor.

Well I also don't think its unreasonable. But for every reasonable requests, there maybe 10 other limitations.

 

[Successor.]

recognition comes in many different forms.

It is a sweeping statement to say "don't everybody work for money". I don't think people who posted here is stating an opinion, but rather stating a factual information, you may have missed the point. The other point you might hv missed is NSF is not a job, it's an obligation, it's conscription. We are not some career soldiers.

Well sucks to be guys in Singapore I guess? Well at least in my opinion, it isn't too much, but what to do when MINDEF doesn't sees it that way? In addition, we are not talking about a handful of people we are talking about 10s and 1000s of NSF, it's not so easy say want give money means give money. Also bonuses can come in many shapes in forms. Off is an example of a bonus not an entitlement. But if your boss don't want to give LLST lor.

Well I also don't think its unreasonable. But for every reasonable requests, there maybe 10 other limitations.

First before I continue, I would like to clarify. Are you even a guy who have served National Service either 2.5 or 2 years? If you aren't, then it's quite hypocritical to be behind the screen commenting on obligations and conscription.

I understand the part about obligation. If you are talking about recognition, what recognition do you see behind it?

Most NSFs got practically nothing in return. Even the COS is quite useless, just shows you have been though NS. Most just say "serve and F off". Why?
Because serving NS in Singapore is not even the least proud nor memorable to many.

Secondly, in Singapore, due to the limited perception of our soldiers, NSFs are worst then POW. Sit also cannot, drink also cannot and have to be on tenterhooks lest they get stomped. With many of this kind of unappreciative people, please tell me what is the meaning of serving.

Thirdly, as I have mentioned earlier. We are 2 years behind in terms of work experience, academic progress and monetary stability. After ORD, 10 cycles of ICT + IPPT and RT for many people who work just to make ends meet and hence could not keep up with their physical.

IMHO, recognition is something that is explicitly done, not something just verbally said and give you a pat on the back but cannot put food on your table.

And while I am talking about monetary benefits, just additional 1 month of allowance for every 1 year of service as a NSF, is that a lot?
Take your calculation - according to Wikipedia, there are about 40,000 conscripts, take $1000 additional allowances is only $40m a year which is only 0.33% of the annual budget for SAF.


Do you know that some NSFs have had family problems and do not have their families to rely on? Some even told me they had to rely on their savings they worked before enlistment to sustain the 2 years.
Even so, do you think its appropriate for a guy at 21 years old to even rely on parents for a living, just because of obligation you are speaking of?

Speaking of reality, if you don't have money, do you think the "obligation" and service you have rendered will put food on your table and provide you with medical expenses if you are sick?

2 years makes a lot of difference.
If you can't, I suggest you take $2k monthly salary (government says average salary for poly graduates is $2.3k) * 24 months deducting allowances.
Otherwise just look around you, all your female and foreign friends have already graduated, you are still slogging away.

 

[reddevil0728]

First before I continue, I would like to clarify. Are you even a guy who have served National Service either 2.5 or 2 years? If you aren't, then it's quite hypocritical to be behind the screen commenting on obligations and conscription.

Be rest assured I'm definitely in the position to comment.

I understand the part about obligation. If you are talking about recognition, what recognition do you see behind it?

I dun fully grasped what you are trying to say about recognition. The way people perceive recognition varies from one person to another. Some people feel that he's being recognised when his boss praise him, some other people feel that only if he gets off he's being recognised, while some feel that only monetary rewards is a form of recognition, and there are many others who have varied definition of "recognition" so there's no hard and fast rule to it.

Most NSFs got practically nothing in return. Even the COS is quite useless, just shows you have been though NS. Most just say "serve and F off". Why?
Because serving NS in Singapore is not even the least proud nor memorable to many.

Before I slowly call out each and every sweeping statements you made, let me tell you why I am saying so upfront. What you perceived from the sentiments from the people you know, from other people on forums etc does not represent the entire population. It can just mean those people you so happened to know and interacted with shares the same opinion as you. It can also mean the people you know are very limited.

"Most NSFs got practically nothing in return." - Sweeping statement, there are NSFs out there who feels that they get a lot of things in return. Whether is it "MOST" or "SOME" we will probably never know unless each and every one of them were to be asked that question.

"Even the COS is quite useless, just shows you have been though NS." - You feel that it's useless, but do you represent that entire NSF population to say it's useless for all of them? The COS states what role you played and your performance, I don't think it jus shows "you have been through NS" only.

" Most just say "serve and F off"." - Another sweeping statement. Whether is it "MOST" or "SOME" we will probably never know unless each and every one of them were to be asked that question.

"Because serving NS in Singapore is not even the least proud nor memorable to many." - Another sweeping statement. Whether is it least proud nor memorable or most proud and memorable to many or some, we will probably never know unless each and every one of them were to be asked that question.

Secondly, in Singapore, due to the limited perception of our soldiers, NSFs are worst then POW. Sit also cannot, drink also cannot and have to be on tenterhooks lest they get stomped. With many of this kind of unappreciative people, please tell me what is the meaning of serving.

That's your own opinion, I wouldn't doubt there are many others who share the same opinion as you, but I also wouldn't doubt there are many others who doesn't share the same opinion as you. Well about the stomp part, I don't think it just restricts to NSF, it's a bigger societal issue. "Many" another sweeping statement, who knows, maybe there are MORE people who appreciate than not appreciate?

Thirdly, as I have mentioned earlier. We are 2 years behind in terms of work experience, academic progress and monetary stability. After ORD, 10 cycles of ICT + IPPT and RT for many people who work just to make ends meet and hence could not keep up with their physical.

I don't see any questions here, but my point is. Ignoring the fact that girls and FT doesn't have to serve. All Singaporean males are on the same boat, so it's not as if only a handful of Singaporean males are in that position. Also how does giving bonus help in anyway to solve that problem?

IMHO, recognition is something that is explicitly done, not something just verbally said and give you a pat on the back but cannot put food on your table.

Yup "IN YOUR HONEST OPINION". So it is IMHO that you are entitled to your own opinion, but that doesn't necessarily represents the opinion of the entire NSF population.

And while I am talking about monetary benefits, just additional 1 month of allowance for every 1 year of service as a NSF, is that a lot?
Take your calculation - according to Wikipedia, there are about 40,000 conscripts, take $1000 additional allowances is only $40m a year which is only 0.33% of the annual budget for SAF.

At a Micro level, definitely not a lot. But have you looked at Macro level? No doubt, in terms of it being a proportion of the defence budget is relatively small, without knowing more details, it may seem reasonable to say that's nothing, but maybe there are certain stuff that we hv missed out which this $40m is needed somewhere else which is more essential? I am not trying to say giving a bonus is not essential, i personally also would be happy to have a bonus, but my point is, criticising for the sake of criticising is pointless. If one is not happy, one should go find out more and make a case out of it, constructive criticism is more useful than just rant without any basis.

Do you know that some NSFs have had family problems and do not have their families to rely on? Some even told me they had to rely on their savings they worked before enlistment to sustain the 2 years.
Even so, do you think its appropriate for a guy at 21 years old to even rely on parents for a living, just because of obligation you are speaking of?

I am pretty sure I've heard cases, of it. But I am also pretty sure the SAF having programs to help those people who are in the situation? If they don't know about it, they should probably speak to their boss to find out more. Whether it is appropriate or not, is subjective. Do you so happen to know that our parents are indirectly supporting us by paying taxes?

Speaking of reality, if you don't have money, do you think the "obligation" and service you have rendered will put food on your table and provide you with medical expenses if you are sick?

As mentioned above, I believe there are programs that will help those people who are having family issue, they should go talk to their boss. NSF personal medical issue??? Ain't 11B literally the best insurance card you can get in the world? I think it beats having obamacare.

2 years makes a lot of difference.
If you can't, I suggest you take $2k monthly salary (government says average salary for poly graduates is $2.3k) * 24 months deducting allowances.
Otherwise just look around you, all your female and foreign friends have already graduated, you are still slogging away.

If there are inequality among guys about the length and obligation to serve, I will definitely be damn pissed. But I think it's not really a like for like comparison when comparing between gender. Well this is my opinion. As for FT, well I believe it's not just a NS issue, but a bigger societal issue.

 

[runicz]

recognition comes in many different forms.

It is a sweeping statement to say "don't everybody work for money". I don't think people who posted here is stating an opinion, but rather stating a factual information, you may have missed the point. The other point you might hv missed is NSF is not a job, it's an obligation, it's conscription. We are not some career soldiers.

Well sucks to be guys in Singapore I guess? Well at least in my opinion, it isn't too much, but what to do when MINDEF doesn't sees it that way? In addition, we are not talking about a handful of people we are talking about 10s and 1000s of NSF, it's not so easy say want give money means give money. Also bonuses can come in many shapes in forms. Off is an example of a bonus not an entitlement. But if your boss don't want to give LLST lor.

Well I also don't think its unreasonable. But for every reasonable requests, there maybe 10 other limitations.

You obviously came from a family background where financial difficulties never exist.
To most average to below average family, NSF, an extra $200 bonus means alot to us. We get "off", we will just go out and work part time (secretly)

Pathetic isn't it? Well thats how a typical poor kid serving NS, struggling to cope with his 3 meals thinks. I'm 20+. I dont want to take money from my parents.

Sigh.. you can never understand me, even if I represent what you call, a minority group of the population. Your thinking is so tainted by our social studies, local media and education system.

Just for your info, I did extremely well for my social studies back in secondary school as well. Even if what I wrote down to answer my question isn't my real answer from my heart.

IPS doing survey asking me what I think about serving NS? Of course ima not gonna slam this system that had existed for 50 years. The government have all the power and I dont want to be sued for defaming. This NS system is awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3TY5OhUJhw

 

[reddevil0728]

You obviously came from a family background where financial difficulties never exist.
To most average to below average family, NSF, an extra $200 bonus means alot to us. We get "off", we will just go out and work part time (secretly)

Pathetic isn't it? Well thats how a typical poor kid serving NS, struggling to cope with his 3 meals thinks. I'm 20+. I dont want to take money from my parents.

Sigh.. you can never understand me, even if I represent what you call, a minority group of the population. Your thinking is so tainted by our social studies, local media and education system.

Just for your info, I did extremely well for my social studies back in secondary school as well. Even if what I wrote down to answer my question isn't my real answer from my heart.

IPS doing survey asking me what I think about serving NS? Of course ima not gonna slam this system that had existed for 50 years. The government have all the power and I dont want to be sued for defaming. This NS system is awesome.

Murray Rothbard: Involuntary Servitude - Conscription - YouTube

Well if your interpretation is that so be it.
Eh in case I'm missing something, please tell me where did I say NSFs "SHOULDN'T BE GETTING BONUS". I believe I said something along the line of NSFs are getting an allowance and not a salary, so I don't think it's a norm? I am pretty much stating an information rather than giving an opinion right? If they give me bonus I also song lor please. I think it's no longer a secret now given that you've said it opinion. OOPS.

probably. ok. and?

sigh... you probably also can never understand me. I don't think I ever said what you claimed to be "a minority group of the population". I believed I said, unless one got statistical evidence, there's no cold hard proof behind those sweeping statements made. Also like what I mentioned earlier "What you perceived from the sentiments from the people you know, from other people on forums etc does not represent the entire population. It can just mean those people you so happened to know and interacted with shares the same opinion as you. It can also mean the people you know are very limited.". Well if you feel that my "thinking is so tainted by our social studies, local media and education system." there's also no pointing arguing right, since no matter what I say also doesn't make a difference to you, so why waste my energy typing?

Eh ok. what you want me to say? Good job?

What's IPS?

"Of course ima not gonna slam this system that had existed for 50 years. The government have all the power and I dont want to be sued for defaming. This NS system is awesome." I think this is really a good example of what TS said, "asshole licker and balls carrier".

If you feel that the system sucks, no matter whether it's 50 years, a century or even a millennium, I don't see why you can't just voice out your issue with it. If you really have constructive stuff to say, I don't see why you fear being sued for defamation. I don' think you need to defame people to get the point across right?

Anyway instead of just being submissive to the system, let me give you a good idea how you can do away with NS if you want to. Create a political party, run for elected office, win the election, and you can always repeal the mandatory NS law. Nobody is stopping you from doing that.

Sorry video too long. didn't have time to watch and also dun get what you are trying to drive across.

 

[j_t_fusion]

You obviously came from a family background where financial difficulties never exist.
To most average to below average family, NSF, an extra $200 bonus means alot to us. We get "off", we will just go out and work part time (secretly)

Pathetic isn't it? Well thats how a typical poor kid serving NS, struggling to cope with his 3 meals thinks. I'm 20+. I dont want to take money from my parents.

Sigh.. you can never understand me, even if I represent what you call, a minority group of the population. Your thinking is so tainted by our social studies, local media and education system.

Just for your info, I did extremely well for my social studies back in secondary school as well. Even if what I wrote down to answer my question isn't my real answer from my heart.

IPS doing survey asking me what I think about serving NS? Of course ima not gonna slam this system that had existed for 50 years. The government have all the power and I dont want to be sued for defaming. This NS system is awesome.

Murray Rothbard: Involuntary Servitude - Conscription - YouTube

a typical poor kid serving NS would have his 3 meals taken care of by SAF, except for most weekends and public holidays of course.

i am very certain that NS is not 50 years old yet.

not going to read and comment on post #23, #24, and #26 because those are merely wall of text...

 

[derrickgoh]

In case some of you are still unaware by now, the ALLOWANCE given to NSFs is meant to cover your most basic living expenses.

When you are in camp, free food is provided via cookhouse. If you decide to eat at canteen that is your pasar. On your off day, its up to you whether you want to eat at food court or Jack's Place. If you have an elite mouth and want to eat the best, don't complain the SAF doesn't give you enough.

Likewise when you book in and book out, if you choose to take taxi, don't complain that your allowance is too low.

The allowance is meant to cover BASIC expense and not luxuries like your internet bill, your visits to ***** houses, your fine dining meals at Prego or your luxurious rides in Chrysler taxis.

I was getting $240 when I started off as a recruit donkey years ago. Yes there is inflation but prices DO NOT double. If you can't spend within your means, that is your problem.

 

[Successor.]

So derrickgoh, in your opinion, you mean that $600+ allowances for man, $800+ for specs and about $1k for officers is enough for basic expenses? Even if it is meant to cover basic expenses, don't we need to have savings in current society context?

I would also like to reiterate what runicz mention, you must have been those who live in a Condo/private housing and when you family is away, they will give you $50 daily for your expenditure.

When NSFs ORD, don't they need money for further studies or for rainy days? Instead of taking loan and incurring debts when they have not step into the society. Please don't forget that all NSFs indirectly lost 2 years of spending power.

In usual cases, most NSFs parents are usually in late 40s or 50s. Can you expect them to get money for every single of their expenditure?

And yes prices don't double, prices increased more then double. Please go and look how bad inflation now is.

Lastly, I doubt anyone did mention about fine dining or splurging. Do a basic calculation and if you don't have parents giving you accommodation, paying your internet and handphone bills, do you think can survive?

Don't use the reason that internet bills are consider splurging, it is a necessity to keeo connected. Handphone bills are also a necessity as SAF requires you to be available 24/7.

 

[chehjin]

i would like to point out that if 600+ is not enough to cover basic lifestyle in SG, then probably most if not all of the foreign workers (u know what kind, dun waste time by arguing the wrong type) will not want to work here at all.

in your first part, you talk about saving. this is a personal decision. how much you can save is up to you. dun give me what not enough, this not enough. end of day, its your choice right? if u dunno how to save, every month give u 10k also not enough. many people take loans for studies, for housing, everyone have to start from scratch, you think everyone's rich man son?

in your 2nd part, you claim prices more than double and the high inflation but 2 things to note, high inflation is a recent thing, in the past, it was pretty controlled. next, food prices have gone up but definitely not doubled for sure. neither is transport or mobile expense. so I dunno what prices you looking at.

Look, lets be sensible here. you are doing NS now, of cos you want the pay to be high high. but once you start working and paying tax, you will start to ask, why I pay so much tax to pay these NSF? remember, u receive for 2 years but pay tax for the rest of your working life.

so my next point would be, in a democratic society, when only the a portion of population is serving NS and drawing meagre pay and the bulk is paying that pay, put to a popular vote, what do you think are the chances that the bulk would vote for a increase in NSF pay?

last time when I was in army, i paid my own mobile and transport. some more I was forced to stay-out, means I only get lunch for meals. yet, i can survive.

yes, I know there will be some cases who are really in dire straits, but usually these people put their head down and work through it. bitching about it doesn't help their cause. Some of them whom I know personally are doing quite well now.

 

[reddevil0728]

So derrickgoh, in your opinion, you mean that $600+ allowances for man, $800+ for specs and about $1k for officers is enough for basic expenses? Even if it is meant to cover basic expenses, don't we need to have savings in current society context?

Um... I thought derrickgoh said

.....cover your most basic living expenses.

When you are in camp, free food is provided via cookhouse. If you decide to eat at canteen that is your pasar. On your off day, its up to you whether you want to eat at food court or Jack's Place. If you have an elite mouth and want to eat the best, don't complain the SAF doesn't give you enough.

I believe this would definitely not apply to those who stays out. But let's just talk about those who are staying in. The math would be too complicated as everybody needs are different, so it's impossible to arrive at a single figure on how much is consider enough, hence even if you are willing to do the math for yourself, it does not represent the entire NSF population. In addition "needs" is a very subjective thing too, so there's no hard and fast rule to it. Oh btw, those singles on Public Assistance Scheme only get $450 and they have to cover everything, they don't have cookhouse food.

I would also like to reiterate what runicz mention, you must have been those who live in a Condo/private housing and when you family is away, they will give you $50 daily for your expenditure.

I think if people like you and him stop making baseless assumptions, your life would be happier and you may end up be in that position which you've mentioned.

When NSFs ORD, don't they need money for further studies or for rainy days? Instead of taking loan and incurring debts when they have not step into the society. Please don't forget that all NSFs indirectly lost 2 years of spending power.

Eh, not sure if you know I would say a large number of ang mohs (sorry I don't have black & white to proof, so you can call this sweeping sttement) don't rely on their parents to put them through college, they take out study loans and before they even start work, they are already in debt. So I think having NS is quite a good thing now right? at least you can save some money unlike those ang mohs.

In usual cases, most NSFs parents are usually in late 40s or 50s. Can you expect them to get money for every single of their expenditure?

Though I think it's a sweeping statement, but I give you that as it sounds reasonable. As to whether they can get money for every single of their expenditure, why don't you tell me?

And yes prices don't double, prices increased more then double. Please go and look how bad inflation now is.

go google "Price Stickiness"

Lastly, I doubt anyone did mention about fine dining or splurging. Do a basic calculation and if you don't have parents giving you accommodation, paying your internet and handphone bills, do you think can survive?

I think when talk about BASICS right, a roof over our head is consider a right. No doubt in this day and age, having internet and handphone is more a necessity than a luxury, but I don't think it's a breached of human rights not to have internet and handphone.

Don't use the reason that internet bills are consider splurging, it is a necessity to keeo connected. Handphone bills are also a necessity as SAF requires you to be available 24/7.

Refer to reply above. I don't think it's stated anywhere that you MUST have a handphone. Can you please point to me where it's stated having a handphone is a requirement for NSF?

 

[rollanddie]

hey hey hey why the fire??? we are all stinkies(i suppose) under the bobian act after all...

 

[derrickgoh]

So derrickgoh, in your opinion, you mean that $600+ allowances for man, $800+ for specs and about $1k for officers is enough for basic expenses? Even if it is meant to cover basic expenses, don't we need to have savings in current society context?

What SAF pays you is an ALLOWANCE. It is meant to cover your BASIC expenses. No one said anything about savings. That is why its called an ALLOWANCE and not a SALARY.

Why is $600 not enough when your food is catered for 5 days a week? When I started off as a recruit we only had $240. Even though there is inflation, cost of living today certainly has NOT doubled from 1996 when I enlisted.

I would also like to reiterate what runicz mention, you must have been those who live in a Condo/private housing and when you family is away, they will give you $50 daily for your expenditure.

Don't be jealous of people who are better able to manage their finances. For the record I live in a 4 room flat and come from a single parent family. How "rich" do you figure I am?

If you expect to be able to go K-Box every weekend and hao lian to your GF by bringing her to expensive restaurants and buy her iPhone for birthday, then of course $600 is not enough. Spend within your means!

There was this guy in my company who never booked out even though we could book out daily. His reason was it costs money to take the bus. So he self confined and booked out only on Sat and booked in on Sun. You can say he has no life, but hey, here is someone who spends within his means.

When NSFs ORD, don't they need money for further studies or for rainy days? Instead of taking loan and incurring debts when they have not step into the society. Please don't forget that all NSFs indirectly lost 2 years of spending power.

Further studies and rainy days is besides the point. Again, SAF pays you an ALLOWANCE not a salary. Allowance is meant purely for your daily expenses. Not for your studies, not for your car, not for your girlfriend's LV bag.

In usual cases, most NSFs parents are usually in late 40s or 50s. Can you expect them to get money for every single of their expenditure?

Again, spend within your means. Can't afford to go Sushi Tei? Go hawker centre. Can't afford to book in by taxi, take the bus. Can't afford to go movie every week, go once a month. GF keep asking for branded bags, get a new GF.

Lastly, I doubt anyone did mention about fine dining or splurging. Do a basic calculation and if you don't have parents giving you accommodation, paying your internet and handphone bills, do you think can survive?

Internet is a LUXURY. If you are really on a tight budget, you can go for the cheapest plan. Who ask you to go for super fast fibre? As for mobile phone, you can always get pre-paid card. These are all luxuries so stop giving excuses. Besides, families who are really that poor can apply for subsidies. Govt does give PCs with internet connection at super low prices.

 

[renfred89]

Dont waste time debating. Read so many words and the argument is still beating the bushes.

 

[whleong1]

My take is when NSF is paid an allowance instead of salary, than the simple solution is to give them an ang pow instead of bonus equal in value .

It is a matter of wording. That is what I am asking for.

There aren't any needs to go around trying to lick asses & carry balls and trying to answer for the Gov .

OVER and OUT

 

[reddevil0728]

My take is when NSF is paid an allowance instead of salary, than the simple solution is to give them an ang pow instead of bonus equal in value .

It is a matter of wording. That is what I am asking for.

Sudden change of tune worx

 

[derrickgoh]

My take is when NSF is paid an allowance instead of salary, than the simple solution is to give them an ang pow instead of bonus equal in value .

It is a matter of wording. That is what I am asking for.

There aren't any needs to go around trying to lick asses & carry balls and trying to answer for the Gov .

OVER and OUT

Over and Out? Well let's see whether you really stay out or if you come back and try to have the last word.

The govt will tell you that its your DUTY to serve your country hence you are lucky to even get paid a single cent. Having said that, you still want ang pow?

And before someone comes in and talks about poor people, for those who are genuinely poor, I am sure they can obtain other forms of assistance. No need to ask SAF for more allowance.

Ironically, I believe most of those complaining here about small allowance are NOT from poor families but are just people who do not know how to manage their finances and spend beyond their means.

 

[reddevil0728]

My take is when NSF is paid an allowance instead of salary, than the simple solution is to give them an ang pow instead of bonus equal in value .

It is a matter of wording. That is what I am asking for.

There aren't any needs to go around trying to lick asses & carry balls and trying to answer for the Gov .

OVER and OUT

lol change of tune again.

need to lick asses and carry balls meh???? you damn poor thing leh. i pity you.

 

[chehjin]

let's not even bring the notion of paying a bonus to NSF.

but the bloody attitude that some people have that a bonus is their entitlement.

when they go out to the real world, they will see bonus is not always given.