Astrea 8 bonds

[MrClubbie]

I believe to qualify for any investment to take cpf monies there are criteria imposed. One of them is the management fees among others. I have a few mutual fund that used to be able to take cpf monies and then later dunno mas or who set new criteria and some funds instead of complying just stop taking cpf monies. Maybe Astrea is taking too high a cut? Or they don't wanna to comply with the imposed conditions so just stick to cash?

is it safe if cpf monies cannot be used?

 

[dork32]

is it safe if cpf monies cannot be used?

since when any of the retail bonds/preference shares can be bought using cpf?

 

[BBCWatcher]

I think cash only? Not even SRS

That particular poster is age 55+ and thinking about withdrawing SA dollars to buy this security. I don't think that's a great swap and explained why.

is it safe if cpf monies cannot be used?

You can invest in fairly crazy things using CPF Ordinary Account dollars such as individual counters listed on the SGX, up to a sublimit. I wouldn't read too much into that.

 

[dork32]

You can invest in fairly crazy things using CPF Ordinary Account dollars such as individual counters listed on the SGX, up to a sublimit. I wouldn't read too much into that.

for you to list your shares on the sgx, you cannot just walk and say "hello, get my counter cpf approved" and it is done. there will be many procedures and cost.

you look at the trading volume of the bonds. it is so low everyday. it is just not worth the effort to get it approved when hardly anyone buys/sells

even sia bonds is not cpf approved. sia bonds not safe?

 

[iphone88]

Is it buy USD bond better since higher Interest rate?

 

[AndroidComa]

15 years is quite long even longer than SSB 10 years. Also if they don't recall on fifth year they will continue until till end i.e 15th year? If I sell before time up is use SGX no buyer how? I think based on my age I want monies after I retire in 5 years time. Will give it a miss.

can only rely on track records.
Astrea Bonds have consistently demonstrated a dependable history of meeting redemption obligations:

• Astrea III (2016), Astrea IV (2018), and Astrea V (2019) were all redeemed on their respective callable dates.

for Astrea 8 SGD 1st callable is 5 years. if not called, step up 1% in coupon, till year 15
The Class A-1 bonds have an interest rate of 4.35% p.a., a semi-annual interest payment, and a Mandatory Call scheduled for July 2029, contingent upon meeting specific conditions. If these bonds are not called, the coupon rates will increase by 1.0% per annum just once.

for Astrea 8 USD 1st callable is 6 years. if not called, step up 1% in coupon, till year 15
Pending certain conditions, the Class A-2 bonds have an interest rate of 6.35% p.a., a semi-annual interest payment and are scheduled for a Mandatory Call in July 2030. If these bonds are not called, the coupon rates will increase by 1.0% per annum just once.

• if economic conditions then is low borrowing rates (in year 5 and 6) which means your FDs are all in the lower regions like pre covid days, then likely they will be quite dumb not to call back these bonds and release new ones at lower coupons.
• if economic conditions then is higher borrowing rates, will your FDs and such pay you more than 5% for SGD or 7% for USD?
• anyways you know astrea retails bonds can be publicly traded in the secondary market right?

https://blog.seedly.sg/astrea-8-bonds/

 

[jackiehuat]

Is it buy USD bond better since higher Interest rate?

A-2 are given lower priority to be paid out in the event of bankruptcy. Higher risk of losing everything.

 

[HoGnix]

I have USD in DBS multiply Account, can I use USD to apply A2?

Anyone knows?

At current USd/SGD rate 1.34, use SGD to apply A2 will loss a bit on currency conversion.

 

[dork32]

A-2 are given lower priority to be paid out in the event of bankruptcy. Higher risk of losing everything.

if bankrupt both will probably lose everything.

 

[final1]

All in is always best.... on hindsight when the counter is flying.
All in may end up going in the opposite direction though.

You forget that Temasek is ALREADY all in on stock and bonds whether listed or non-listed and they actively manage the portfolio paying millions in salaries to 'professional money managers'. This portfolio can also go up or down. And, with this ACTIVE MANAGEMENT, their return is a measly 1.6% in 2023.
Utterly incompetent staff. That is the point.

THEREFORE, i am saying that they can get rid of their incompetent 'professional money managers' and instead all in on a passive ETF like the S&P 500 instead.

The argument is not based on hindsight at all.

 

[final1]

Anyone knows?

At current USd/SGD rate 1.34, use SGD to apply A2 will loss a bit on currency conversion.

Correct. USD has dropped abit since Astrea 8 was launched.
You can't expect Azalea to do real-time exchange rate pricing for such an IPO.

 

[ahnyaahnya]

You forget that Temasek is ALREADY all in on stock and bonds whether listed or non-listed and they actively manage the portfolio paying millions in salaries to 'professional money managers'. This portfolio can also go up or down. And, with this ACTIVE MANAGEMENT, their return is a measly 1.6% in 2023.
Utterly incompetent staff. That is the point.

THEREFORE, i am saying that they can get rid of their incompetent 'professional money managers' and instead all in on a passive ETF like the S&P 500 instead.

The argument is not based on hindsight at all.

That proves my point.
Went all in and only get meagre returns.
Those who went all- in on SPY prior to the big fall years ago, would also have regretted it then. Of course it has since recovered and flown even higher (if they didn’t panic sell. Better still if they hadn't all-in and could top up more units). But all that is hindsight too.

 

[maumu]

Anyone knows?

At current USd/SGD rate 1.34, use SGD to apply A2 will loss a bit on currency conversion.

same question, wonder if it is possible to use our USD in DBS multiplier to apply A2. my USD FD is maturing tomorrow.

 

[final1]

That proves my point.
Went all in and only get meagre returns.
Those who went all- in on SPY prior to the big fall years ago, would also have regretted it then. Of course it has since recovered and flown even higher (if they didn’t panic sell. Better still if they hadn't all-in and could top up more units). But all that is hindsight too.

No, it is not hindsight.
Passive investing in a diversified ETF like the S&P500 and holding it for years and ignoring the ups and downs is a PROVEN and TIME-TESTED STRATEGY.

Time is ignored. Therefore, hindsight does not factor in at all.

 

[BBCWatcher]

for you to list your shares on the sgx, you cannot just walk and say "hello, get my counter cpf approved" and it is done. there will be many procedures and cost.

OK, but that’s why I used the word “fairly.” Many companies with stocks listed on the SGX have gone bankrupt and wiped out shareholders, and many more have nearly wiped out shareholders. That’s also why there’s a sublimit, a crude guardrail.

you look at the trading volume of the bonds. it is so low everyday. it is just not worth the effort to get it approved when hardly anyone buys/sells

Astrea 8 securities will be listed on the SGX, or at least that’s the plan.

Is it buy USD bond better since higher Interest rate?

If your real future spending goal will be in U.S. dollars in some material way then that’d argue in favor of the USD variant. But there may be even better choices available.

 

[Kayeesha]

You forget that Temasek is ALREADY all in on stock and bonds whether listed or non-listed and they actively manage the portfolio paying millions in salaries to 'professional money managers'. This portfolio can also go up or down. And, with this ACTIVE MANAGEMENT, their return is a measly 1.6% in 2023.
Utterly incompetent staff. That is the point.

THEREFORE, i am saying that they can get rid of their incompetent 'professional money managers' and instead all in on a passive ETF like the S&P 500 instead.

The argument is not based on hindsight at all.

I guess they may not be incentivised to improve performance as they can get “cheap/cheaper” financing from the bond market? I understand their bonds are always oversubscribed e.g. 3 times for Astrea 7?

 

[MrClubbie]

since when any of the retail bonds/preference shares can be bought using cpf?

hyflux preference shares

 

[bruiser69]

hyflux preference shares

Those retail investors who bought those really kena blue black big time. Thank you Olivia Lum

 

[sky1978]

is it safe if cpf monies cannot be used?

The issuer or company must apply for inclusion under CPFIS, and CPF needs to vet them. CPF does not decide who is supposed to be in or out without seeing an application on the table. If you are an issuer, you can fill out the online form here.
https://form.gov.sg/5ec3a569c14fc50011697cae

But, if your issue is already well over-subscribed, will you still bother to tap into CPF money? CPF money won't help during the book-building process if you are doing a bond issue, so it had little impact on the yield during the primary issue,

The criteria for the inclusion of corporate bonds under CPFIS are here.
https://www.cpf.gov.sg/service/arti...e-bonds-under-the-cpf-investment-scheme-cpfis

 

[ahnyaahnya]

No, it is not hindsight.
Passive investing in a diversified ETF like the S&P500 and holding it for years and ignoring the ups and downs is a PROVEN and TIME-TESTED STRATEGY.

Time is ignored. Therefore, hindsight does not factor in at all.

Nah. If your timing bad , and you suddenly need money when the market is down then you don't liquidate?
Wait for it to recover, cos it surely will?