Banking Sector - Career Path

[Yaco99]

wanna be working in ib too..
looks like everyone is chasing the trend as ib pay are damn attractive
however, entry is definitely not easy
hopefully can quickly start skool, b&f uol...
any guides to how'da enter sales division, equity research or M&A in ib, other than scoring well and taking up internship?

Sad to say, if you are aiming to go to your nicksake, UOL-->GS chances are next to nil, unless your dad is a MD there or something.

Like you said, there are many, many people who want to go into IB and there would be an abundant of guides on how to do it. Try reading merger and inquisition for one.

 

[Mathemagician]

For those people who say that you want to work in IB, why don't you try sleep only 4 hours per day and then sit in front of PC motionless, playing with excel and powerpoint.

 

[Goldmansachs]

yaco.. have u graduated in your course? im not wrong, i think i rmb u saying ur almost completing ur course in uol b&f too..
what modules should i take for the further 3 units that best fit where i wanna go..
and are u able to score 2:1 or 1:1?
r u going to step into the industry soon?

as for mathemagician, i respect ur deep understanding of this industry.. anyway, r u also inside this industry? and true, ib division is as scary as what u described, but i know that equity sales and equity researcher is usually 6 am to 6pm job. i bet entry level is not that tough. what do u think?

 

[Mathemagician]

yaco.. have u graduated in your course? im not wrong, i think i rmb u saying ur almost completing ur course in uol b&f too..
what modules should i take for the further 3 units that best fit where i wanna go..
and are u able to score 2:1 or 1:1?
r u going to step into the industry soon?

as for mathemagician, i respect ur deep understanding of this industry.. anyway, r u also inside this industry? and true, ib division is as scary as what u described, but i know that equity sales and equity researcher is usually 6 am to 6pm job. i bet entry level is not that tough. what do u think?

Nah, I don't want to be in that industry. It depends on what IBs (Bulge bracket definitely wont let you have a "life", boutiques probably let you off earlier) and who your MD is. Entry level (Analyst) is at the bottom of the food chain, so you will be assigned lots of sh!t.

 

[Yaco99]

Hmm... Not sure where you have read that I am almost completing my course but I am in my year 1 now. My personal plan is to go into PWM so it would be rather different from what you want to take.

Anyway, my personal belief is that counting on my degree from UOL for a good job in the industry is tantamount to suicide. No employers gives two hoots about UOL when they have so many better choices out there. The same goes for their interest in what mods you have taken.

I have been in 4 temp/contract jobs and an internship in various banks for about a year and a half as of now but I wouldn't call that having "stepped" into the industry as yet since you aren't really as involved as a perm would be. I did that to confirm my interest and find out more about the industry. Will be changing to a part time course and working full time next sem onwards.

If you ask me though, the best chances of getting into IB from UOL would be to get out there and take on whatever jobs you can find in the industry and hope to impress someone who have the right connections to pull you in. The sad fact is that a 1:1 from UOL means nothing out there unless you can go along mathemagician's path.

 

[Goldmansachs]

thanks for the info.
however, if i wanna be in the equity research or m&a area, which econs should i take in the further 2 units
ive noticed theres alot of econs options ranging from monetary, industrial, international and managerial.
i suppose i wont take eoe or qf becos its a killer and it might pull down my grades.

 

[Yaco99]

Take VSA? Company Law? Can't think of what might be useful atm apart from these 2...

 

[slayercsa]

I hope next time in the future I will be able to trade/invest using company funds. Analyse the market and give recommendations on a stock. Need not necessary be in a bank. Can be in the finance dept of a MNC.

What is the name of such a position called? Initially I thought it was financial analyst. But looking through the post, analyst is the bottom of the food chain, and can't possibly be trusted with companies funds.

. In fact, pretty much everyone of your peers who go into a more specialised field(engineer, accountant, etc) will probably earn more then you, with comparable or better hours.

Why are back offices not considered specialised field..? Forgive me, but I am still trying to figure out the different jobs in banks.

Back offices consist of IT engineers, accountants, software engineers. These roles need a technical degree right..?

 

[Mathemagician]

I hope next time in the future I will be able to trade/invest using company funds. Analyse the market and give recommendations on a stock. Need not necessary be in a bank. Can be in the finance dept of a MNC.

It's called Equity Analyst or Equity Researcher or Research Associate/Analyst, the naming really depends on the banks or firms. Other than Investment banks, you can look at independent firms such as CLSA which offer this kind of service.

The term analyst refers to the entry level position, the next level is Associate. Some firms starts from Associate then Senior Associate and so on...

 

[Yaco99]

I hope next time in the future I will be able to trade/invest using company funds. Analyse the market and give recommendations on a stock. Need not necessary be in a bank. Can be in the finance dept of a MNC.

What is the name of such a position called? Initially I thought it was financial analyst. But looking through the post, analyst is the bottom of the food chain, and can't possibly be trusted with companies funds.



Why are back offices not considered specialised field..? Forgive me, but I am still trying to figure out the different jobs in banks.

Back offices consist of IT engineers, accountants, software engineers. These roles need a technical degree right..?

Mathemagician's answer is for the analyse and give recommendation part. Trading of the bank's own money is called proprietary trading but it's been killed by the Volcker rule so you will probably have to go the MNCs to do that. No idea what's the correct term for that in MNCs. The remaining trading desk in banks are now trades using client's funds? This part I am not too sure so can someone confirm?

The main bulk of back offices work is in operations, in stuff such as account openings, instructions processing, trade settlement etc etc. Basically tons of paperwork. There are IT engineers working in the IT department but there aren't many. Like 1 dept of say 10-15 people supporting an entire building. Accountants in banks that do accounting related work are in areas like internal audit, which is considered to be in the middle office. Not a major area either. Software engineering are often outsourced and not handled within the bank itself.

Actually, the problem with back office is that you are easily replaceable. The trend in the back offices of banks here now are to outsource them to other lower cost countries so you may be in danger of losing your job anytime and it's not as stable as you think it is.

 

[Winter Of Disconnect]

but I am pretty sure (gather from around the internet) that working in a bank, regardless of back or middle office, gives u a higher-than-median paycheck in a peasant context. Sufficient to lead a stable life right?

Actually, the problem with back office is that you are easily replaceable. The trend in the back offices of banks here now are to outsource them to other lower cost countries so you may be in danger of losing your job anytime and it's not as stable as you think it is.

another problem is that many of these back office ops roles (like account openings, instructions processing, trade settlement as mentioned in previous post) do not have much transferable skills which can be used in other industries. so your higher-than-median paycheck comes with the risk that you're pretty much stuck in the industry

 

[slayercsa]

It's called Equity Analyst or Equity Researcher or Research Associate/Analyst, the naming really depends on the banks or firms. Other than Investment banks, you can look at independent firms such as CLSA which offer this kind of service.

The term analyst refers to the entry level position, the next level is Associate. Some firms starts from Associate then Senior Associate and so on...

do u think a business degree from local uni is a stepping stone for such jobs? Follow by a MBA for further career progression

 

[Mathemagician]

do u think a business degree from local uni is a stepping stone for such jobs? Follow by a MBA for further career progression

Well seriously they dont really care about your degree. They care about your school, interest and they want to know whether you really have interest in the field. They can find out through probing questions such as

What do you think about Singapore's economy ?
Why are you interested in capital market ?
What do you think the impact of recent election to Singapore's economy ?
What business is good for investment right now ?
What do you think about Singtel's share ? Do you think it's a buy or sell or hold ?
etc.

 

[Yaco99]

Hi,

do u think i would be better off completing my engineering degree in NTU (with lousy grades. probably 3rd class honours or just a pass) or get a ACCA qualification.

my question is regarding which would be a better option for me to embark on a career in the banking industry so that i have promotion prospects? by this, effectively im ruling out those jobs in the back office.

u guys seem to have in-depth knowledge so please do enlighten me.

How far are you from completing? If you have started, might as well just complete if you ask me. And if you can get 3rd class without much effort, you can just take ACCA at the same time too. Not really a must be one or the other in your case.

 

[slayercsa]

Well seriously they dont really care about your degree. They care about your school, interest and they want to know whether you really have interest in the field. They can find out through probing questions such as

What do you think about Singapore's economy ?
Why are you interested in capital market ?
What do you think the impact of recent election to Singapore's economy ?
What business is good for investment right now ?
What do you think about Singtel's share ? Do you think it's a buy or sell or hold ?
etc.

I see. Thanks! So besides banks, what sort of place can I find such jobs? Financial consultant? Normal MNCs eg; IBM,Google?

 

[Blue.Wing]

Hi, does anyone has any knowledge about securities processing analyst?
- job scopes?
- Steep learning curve?
- Suitable for fresh grad?

Thanks in advance

 

[Yaco99]

im finishing my year 2. now having exams. i would say it isnt tough. but u'll have to put in effort. for me, i totally hate science and hence i always procrastinate when it comes to studying for my exams. i've skipped every single lecture and tutorial throughout my 2 years and only when the exams are around the corner (abt 3 weeks) i start to 'chiong'. sort of like last minute cramming every single thing.

but i hate engineering and if possible would like to give it up and start on doing ACCA full time.

so the question is whether having a ACCA qualification would put me on the same level as a NTU mechanical engineering degree when employers from acct firms/banks view my resume. (act. i dun think i'll be able to get into an acct firm with a mech engine background, hence lets take it from a banking perspective)

and also will employers be hesitant to promote me if i do not have a degree but the qualification only?

I think it would be in your best interest to complete your degree as well. As you can choose the numbers of ACCA papers to take each session, you can select the numbers of papers you can cope with while still completing your degree. I know of some people who are doing the same in ntu now but they started taking the acca papers during ns though.

You should also note the 36 mths workings experience required to obtain the charter so if you decide to drop out now, assuming you clear everything on the first try, it will still be 3 years before you actually obtain the charter. I am not sure if your "doing acca full time" consist of working while studying so the timeline will vary.

What do you think are the type of roles you will be able to obtain now and will be in for the next 3 years till you obtain the charter? My view is that for the entry level jobs, acca and your degree will be of pretty comparable standing since bank really do not care what type of degree is it you have for most roles. However, for further promotions in the future, a lack of degree would be quite likely to count against you. You may find that you would not even need to take the acca once you are already employed with the bank using your degree.

Tahan 2 more years and see what you can get when you start off or quit now and and work+study to get your acca in 3 more years?

I think there is really alot of factors you need to consider so hope others can advise you as well.

Edit: Are you able to convert to the part time degree course? If you are, you can try to work+part time lesson + acca at the same time. I know it is quite insane but if you can cope with it, you will end up with 3 years working exp+acca+degree at the end of 3 years.

 

[friendlyguy]

Hmm... Not sure where you have read that I am almost completing my course but I am in my year 1 now. My personal plan is to go into PWM so it would be rather different from what you want to take.

Anyway, my personal belief is that counting on my degree from UOL for a good job in the industry is tantamount to suicide. No employers gives two hoots about UOL when they have so many better choices out there. The same goes for their interest in what mods you have taken.

I have been in 4 temp/contract jobs and an internship in various banks for about a year and a half as of now but I wouldn't call that having "stepped" into the industry as yet since you aren't really as involved as a perm would be. I did that to confirm my interest and find out more about the industry. Will be changing to a part time course and working full time next sem onwards.

If you ask me though, the best chances of getting into IB from UOL would be to get out there and take on whatever jobs you can find in the industry and hope to impress someone who have the right connections to pull you in. The sad fact is that a 1:1 from UOL means nothing out there unless you can go along mathemagician's path.

Try CFA dude

 

[Mathemagician]

im finishing my year 2. now having exams. i would say it isnt tough. but u'll have to put in effort. for me, i totally hate science and hence i always procrastinate when it comes to studying for my exams. i've skipped every single lecture and tutorial throughout my 2 years and only when the exams are around the corner (abt 3 weeks) i start to 'chiong'. sort of like last minute cramming every single thing.

but i hate engineering and if possible would like to give it up and start on doing ACCA full time.

quitting is definitely a no-no. Imagine in an interview, you tell your prospective employer "I enrolled into Engineering course because I had no idea what it is about, after 2 years I found that I hated it and decided to quit" It sounds like "Hey, I have no idea about finance and banking industry. I am going give it a try, see whether I like it or not, if I don't, I am going to quit !"

By the way, what is so cool about quitting an undergraduate studies and pursue ACCA qualification solely ? Why not doing both concurrently ? Now, that is something you can brag about, in fact, an excuse that you can use for getting 3rd class or pass for your engineering degree.

so the question is whether having a ACCA qualification would put me on the same level as a NTU mechanical engineering degree when employers from acct firms/banks view my resume. (act. i dun think i'll be able to get into an acct firm with a mech engine background, hence lets take it from a banking perspective)

What do you mean by acct firms/banks ? If you want to be an accountant then go for ACCA, if you want to be a banker, then CFA is more relevant. Bankers do not need in-depth accounting knowledge, only need to know how to read 3 major financial statements - Income Statement, Balance Sheet and Cash Flow Statement. All these 3 are covered in Financial Statement Analysis (FSA) in CFA.

 

[Yaco99]

Try CFA dude

Taking. Earliest I can take it is final year of bachelor's course and I am still in my year one lol...