[Breaking!] Zelensky now wants to Negotiate without Surrendering in Israel Jerusalem after denying Bennett Call for Surrender!

xdivider

Great Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2000
Messages
53,760
Reaction score
14,922
Cease fire vs surrender is just a term in legality.
Cease fire means both sides step back and come to terms.

Surrender means one side has to lose or admit they lose.
terms as it stands basically says we ukr agree to stop fighting in exchange for being toothless and landless and kenna bombed without compensation. its more or less surrendering while russkies get to go home claiming they score a big vioctory against neo nazis and liberated russkies in ukr.....
 

xdivider

Great Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2000
Messages
53,760
Reaction score
14,922
You gotta consider the cons of not signing it also.

If the cons outweighs the pros, then Ukraine is better off signing the deal.
thats up to them to decide. what we think is logical may be plain disgraceful for them. remember we are not the one getting invaded. we also fought back instead of translating outright for the japanese. Our text book call the volunteer regiment defenders brave men for sacrificing themselves rather than calling them kgk who make more sinkies die in soo ching. using ukr analogue, by the time prince of wales/repulse, planes destroyed we should have surrendered instead of continuing the fight after they cross the straits....
 

dannytan87

Banned
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
56,887
Reaction score
2,453
terms as it stands basically says we ukr agree to stop fighting in exchange for being toothless and landless and kenna bombed without compensation. its more or less surrendering while russkies get to go home claiming they score a big vioctory against neo nazis and liberated russkies in ukr.....
Toothless and landless, and most importantly alive maybe better than brave and heroic and dead for most Ukrainian.

Heroism will be just a small chapter in the world's history book and everyone, including US citizen will continue their wall street silcone valley lives, and forgotten everything in 10 year.

一将功成万骨枯
 

NTB2DO

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
20,409
Reaction score
3,332
terms as it stands basically says we ukr agree to stop fighting in exchange for being toothless and landless and kenna bombed without compensation. its more or less surrendering while russkies get to go home claiming they score a big vioctory against neo nazis and liberated russkies in ukr.....
Won't be landless lah. The breakaway territories are not really that big (like few percent the size of Ukraine?) . Plus the 2 territories are already in conflict, just that we don't know which side (Ukraine vs Russia-back rebels) is winning.
 

NTB2DO

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
20,409
Reaction score
3,332
Toothless and landless, and most importantly alive maybe better than brave and heroic and dead for most Ukrainian.

Heroism will be just a small chapter in the world's history book and everyone, including US citizen will continue their wall street silcone valley lives, and forgotten everything in 10 year.

一将功成万骨枯
Yup.

Plus, as the saying goes: 留得青山在,不怕没柴烧
 

xdivider

Great Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2000
Messages
53,760
Reaction score
14,922
Won't be landless lah. The breakaway territories are not really that big (like few percent the size of Ukraine?) . Plus the 2 territories are already in conflict, just that we don't know which side (Ukraine vs Russia-back rebels) is winning.
with a ton of resources which is the main reason for the land grab. when russkies want more they go invade again. plus ill be dumb if i return all the confiscated russkie equipments juz like how nuke disarming allow people to invade in the first place.......
 

NTB2DO

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
20,409
Reaction score
3,332
with a ton of resources which is the main reason for the land grab. when russkies want more they go invade again. plus ill be dumb if i return all the confiscated russkie equipments juz like how nuke disarming allow people to invade in the first place.......
Ya. Not impossible.

But at the moment, the priority is still to prevent (or at least minimize) loss of more innocent lives.
 

xdivider

Great Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2000
Messages
53,760
Reaction score
14,922
Ya. Not impossible.

But at the moment, the priority is still to prevent (or at least minimize) loss of more innocent lives.
actually if im ukr and angry ill hold out as long as possible. that was how the krauts got repelled in wwii. we want ceasefire cos it affects our cost of living but based on what im been reading, they want retaliation. they will probably lose in the long run but russkies will be suffering from economic meltdown and civilian unrest for at least a few yrs...

this should be a good example to would be war invaders that economic war is more powerful than tanks.......
 

NTB2DO

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
20,409
Reaction score
3,332
actually if im ukr and angry ill hold out as long as possible. that was how the krauts got repelled in wwii. we want ceasefire cos it affects our cost of living but based on what im been reading, they want retaliation. they will probably lose in the long run but russkies will be suffering from economic meltdown and civilian unrest for at least a few yrs...
And just let the Russia forces continue to bombard your land, and continue putting your countryman in harm's way?
 

xdivider

Great Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2000
Messages
53,760
Reaction score
14,922
And just let the Russia forces continue to bombard your land, and continue putting your countryman in harm's way?
right now , it seem yes for them. lots of people are already homeless.....
 

NTB2DO

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
20,409
Reaction score
3,332
right now , it seem yes for them. lots of people are already homeless.....
I cannot speak for the Ukrainians. But if Zelensky is a leader who truly cares about his people, his priority should always be the well-being and the safety of his people.

But of cos, you can disagree with me on this.
 

BohemianSG

Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
8,724
Reaction score
4,020
It goes more than just the alliance. By neutrality, Russia meant that Ukraine won't be allowed to a strong army equipped by the western forces. And by extension, Ukraine will no longer have any ability to stand up for itself.


Well that's not my understanding of 'neutrality'..

Actually depending on which news report you read. Some reports did claim that one of Russia demands was for Ukraine to disarm while other reports did not mention this.

So both of you could be right.
 

xdivider

Great Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2000
Messages
53,760
Reaction score
14,922
I cannot speak for the Ukrainians. But if Zelensky is a leader who truly cares about his people, his priority should always be the well-being and the safety of his people.

But of cos, you can disagree with me on this.
he can surrender, but its likely they will keep fighting, lynch him and appoint a more militant leader. Thats whats happen in palestine. i try not to assume what ukr people wants since this is the 2nd time they got invaded and sinkies would rather translate than fight......
 

Velana

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
14,670
Reaction score
1,896
i honestly believe this guy is just trying to extend his time as president and his legacy, if you can even call it that.

His detractors and I will say there will be quite many, would say he should not have antagonised and dreamt of joining nato in the first place. and now he get his country in this sh!t and he's just trying to make himself look like a hero at the expense of his people. This guy should've been shot to be honest.
 

Lemon_gaga

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
12,144
Reaction score
722
Minister for Foreign Affairs of Ukraine since March 04, 2020. Dmytro Kuleba is author of a book "The War for Reality.

No wonder Ukraine go into this mess. Foreign affair minister is a author. Write books. Maybe use Sunzi bingfa to fight
 

Lemon_gaga

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
12,144
Reaction score
722

NTB2DO

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
20,409
Reaction score
3,332
Actually depending on which news report you read. Some reports did claim that one of Russia demands was for Ukraine to disarm while other reports did not mention this.

So both of you could be right.
Assuming what's stated in this CNA article is true:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/com...not-reject-putin-terms-ceasefire-deal-2547401
..The first two are that Ukraine ceases military action — one assumes as part of a wider ceasefire — and changes its constitution to enshrine neutrality, likely meaning that it must pledge to stay out of NATO.

Putin is also demanding that Ukraine and the West acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory and recognise the separatist republics of Donetsk and Luhansk as independent states.
 

Babel fish

Master Member
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
4,768
Reaction score
1,442
Zelensky is probably praying for a coup in russia as this drags on. Russians also buay tong the sanctions for long
 
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Community Guidelines and Standards, Terms of Service and Member T&Cs for more information.
Top