Car recommendation

[may_dream1]

If $102k, the theoretical profit to the dealer is still $15k. So, i think its still overpriced for an old model.

Maintenance of skoda not that bad actually. Its all volkswagen parts anyway.
Largest or 2nd largest car manufacturer in the world.
No shortage of parts.

i bought skoda octavia. u should be able to get the price lower than $102k.
internal is spacious and boot is huge. can put a lot of stuff.

 

[ExEngineer]

Hey guys, looking to buy a new car with approx 100k budget. Currently considering the Hyundai avante and civic. Any other cars I should consider? Thanks!

Car person here (Long ago, worked for years in car industry overseas, and more recently, in last few years have bought/sold/owned cars in SG) , & sharing some inputs which may or may not be useful....

1. Do NOT restrict yourself to brand new cars. In almost any country in the world, buying a brand new car is the most financially stupid decision you can ever make (if you like “new” feeling, 1-2 years old, Low mileage & still within warranty period, is the way to go). In Singapore it’s slightly different...the financial penalty of buying brand new vs “slightly used” is not so sure-thing, for a variety of reasons. But unless you are really really die die must buy brand new, then consider expanding options to used (either “almost new”, 1-2 years old, or even older).
2. Taking into account #1, it’s not useful to think about total car price Budget (100k etc). Rather, here in SG (because of COE 10 year periods), unlike any other country, we should think about it in terms of annual cost. Basically, think about car as “long term rental” (not asset). How much are you willing to spend Annually. Start with depreciation, then add insurance, fuel, maintenance etc. Then work backwards and figure out how much annual depreciation you can afford. Sorry if this is repeating what you already know!
3. Maintenance/repair cost is a factor to consider (“Conti less reliable and parts cost more than Jap/Korean”, which is true btw..) , but probably not as much as in the past...for the simple reason that in recent years, manufacturers have been forced to compete in terms of warranty periods (5yrs is now the norm), and for some manufacturers, free servicing for 2-3 years as well. Are Conti cars less reliable and more expensive to service? Answer is maybe/probably on first question and DEFINITELY on second question. Does it make a difference to your wallet? Answer is probably, but maybe not as much as you think (because of aforementioned increasingly long/free warranty/service periods.
4. All that said, to be very specific, what I’d personally recommend:
a) If value for money is most important thing, go Japanese/Korean.
b) If your heart is set on Conti “feeling” (prestige, “solidness” etc), consider “nearly new” but not necessarily brand new...but must be with 1-3 years of Agent warranty remaining. Do your homework on prices and negotiate hard.
c) Skoda/VW (especially the 1.4 engine family) - not at all a bad option. You will save a lot on fuel and road tax. VW Group have a pretty terrible reputation in terms of reliability, especially due to auto/DSG gearbox reliability issues over the past 5-10 years, especially in Southeast Asia. But more recent information suggests they have taken this into account - either in terms of addressing the reliability, or extending warranty coverage to win back consumer confidence. That doesn’t mean it is a better bet that Asian makers (Korean makes especially are getting better all the time, actually more so that’s Japanese), but at least it is not the disaster/lottery of VW auto gearboxes several years ago.

 

[warr]

for peace of mind, not thinking too much about maintenance cost and trouble etc, just pick a jap or korean car, then narrow down 3 choices to try.

total cost of ownership is the matter, not just the initial price at the showroom.
Have a peace of mind knowing that your car is reliable, and cost little even if having problems.

if money not issue, then go try european, a rolls royce or mclaren.

 

[fujicolours]

Car person here (Long ago, worked for years in car industry overseas, and more recently, in last few years have bought/sold/owned cars in SG) , & sharing some inputs which may or may not be useful....

1. Do NOT restrict yourself to brand new cars. In almost any country in the world, buying a brand new car is the most financially stupid decision you can ever make (if you like “new” feeling, 1-2 years old, Low mileage & still within warranty period, is the way to go). In Singapore it’s slightly different...the financial penalty of buying brand new vs “slightly used” is not so sure-thing, for a variety of reasons. But unless you are really really die die must buy brand new, then consider expanding options to used (either “almost new”, 1-2 years old, or even older).
2. Taking into account #1, it’s not useful to think about total car price Budget (100k etc). Rather, here in SG (because of COE 10 year periods), unlike any other country, we should think about it in terms of annual cost. Basically, think about car as “long term rental” (not asset). How much are you willing to spend Annually. Start with depreciation, then add insurance, fuel, maintenance etc. Then work backwards and figure out how much annual depreciation you can afford. Sorry if this is repeating what you already know!
3. Maintenance/repair cost is a factor to consider (“Conti less reliable and parts cost more than Jap/Korean”, which is true btw..) , but probably not as much as in the past...for the simple reason that in recent years, manufacturers have been forced to compete in terms of warranty periods (5yrs is now the norm), and for some manufacturers, free servicing for 2-3 years as well. Are Conti cars less reliable and more expensive to service? Answer is maybe/probably on first question and DEFINITELY on second question. Does it make a difference to your wallet? Answer is probably, but maybe not as much as you think (because of aforementioned increasingly long/free warranty/service periods.
4. All that said, to be very specific, what I’d personally recommend:
a) If value for money is most important thing, go Japanese/Korean.
b) If your heart is set on Conti “feeling” (prestige, “solidness” etc), consider “nearly new” but not necessarily brand new...but must be with 1-3 years of Agent warranty remaining. Do your homework on prices and negotiate hard.
c) Skoda/VW (especially the 1.4 engine family) - not at all a bad option. You will save a lot on fuel and road tax. VW Group have a pretty terrible reputation in terms of reliability, especially due to auto/DSG gearbox reliability issues over the past 5-10 years, especially in Southeast Asia. But more recent information suggests they have taken this into account - either in terms of addressing the reliability, or extending warranty coverage to win back consumer confidence. That doesn’t mean it is a better bet that Asian makers (Korean makes especially are getting better all the time, actually more so that’s Japanese), but at least it is not the disaster/lottery of VW auto gearboxes several years ago.

Hi, thanks for sharing so much! How is Seat vs Skoda? How are Mazda cars?

 

[ExEngineer]

Hi, thanks for sharing so much! How is Seat vs Skoda? How are Mazda cars?

Mechanically, Seat/Skoda/VW are pretty much identical.
Difference in prices, some specs, brand image etc...but under the skin they are exactly the same, designed by the same groups of Engineers etc.
Arguably same goes for Audi as well (same VW/Audi group), but not as close as the first 3.

Mazdas....are nice!

 

[sky00sky]

Hi, thanks for sharing so much! How is Seat vs Skoda? How are Mazda cars?

Seat products actually is priced very competitively here
But there seems to be small small issue with the AD . Probably not under VW group so dun have the finance clout

 

[final1]

Seat products actually is priced very competitively here
But there seems to be small small issue with the AD . Probably not under VW group so dun have the finance clout

SEAT SG (AD is vertex) still sells cars at 5 digit margins per car. But, its not exorbitant like other brands i won't name and i am not talking about luxury brands like merc or bmw. So, i will say its more reasonable than other brands at the same tier and definitely worth looking at if you don't mind the logo being not as 'recognised' as an 'actual' volkswagen.
I think they are the cheapest german brand of car you can buy in SG.

Their 1.0 liter cars (arona, ibiza) will be very economical.

But, note that SEAT's new model is not too far off (guessing).
Its the SEAT Leon 2020/2021 model. Eventually, i guess we will see their electric car here (cupra born).

 

[eighthours]

Car person here (Long ago, worked for years in car industry overseas, and more recently, in last few years have bought/sold/owned cars in SG) , & sharing some inputs which may or may not be useful....

1. Do NOT restrict yourself to brand new cars. In almost any country in the world, buying a brand new car is the most financially stupid decision you can ever make (if you like “new” feeling, 1-2 years old, Low mileage & still within warranty period, is the way to go). In Singapore it’s slightly different...the financial penalty of buying brand new vs “slightly used” is not so sure-thing, for a variety of reasons. But unless you are really really die die must buy brand new, then consider expanding options to used (either “almost new”, 1-2 years old, or even older).
2. Taking into account #1, it’s not useful to think about total car price Budget (100k etc). Rather, here in SG (because of COE 10 year periods), unlike any other country, we should think about it in terms of annual cost. Basically, think about car as “long term rental” (not asset). How much are you willing to spend Annually. Start with depreciation, then add insurance, fuel, maintenance etc. Then work backwards and figure out how much annual depreciation you can afford. Sorry if this is repeating what you already know!
3. Maintenance/repair cost is a factor to consider (“Conti less reliable and parts cost more than Jap/Korean”, which is true btw..) , but probably not as much as in the past...for the simple reason that in recent years, manufacturers have been forced to compete in terms of warranty periods (5yrs is now the norm), and for some manufacturers, free servicing for 2-3 years as well. Are Conti cars less reliable and more expensive to service? Answer is maybe/probably on first question and DEFINITELY on second question. Does it make a difference to your wallet? Answer is probably, but maybe not as much as you think (because of aforementioned increasingly long/free warranty/service periods.
4. All that said, to be very specific, what I’d personally recommend:
a) If value for money is most important thing, go Japanese/Korean.
b) If your heart is set on Conti “feeling” (prestige, “solidness” etc), consider “nearly new” but not necessarily brand new...but must be with 1-3 years of Agent warranty remaining. Do your homework on prices and negotiate hard.
c) Skoda/VW (especially the 1.4 engine family) - not at all a bad option. You will save a lot on fuel and road tax. VW Group have a pretty terrible reputation in terms of reliability, especially due to auto/DSG gearbox reliability issues over the past 5-10 years, especially in Southeast Asia. But more recent information suggests they have taken this into account - either in terms of addressing the reliability, or extending warranty coverage to win back consumer confidence. That doesn’t mean it is a better bet that Asian makers (Korean makes especially are getting better all the time, actually more so that’s Japanese), but at least it is not the disaster/lottery of VW auto gearboxes several years ago.

Hi bro, great share. Fully agreed. I'm all for value for money. There's really no shame in getting second hand car. Everyone has a different story.

But just wanted to hear your thoughts on buying second hand COE jap car vs second hand PARF jap car.

 

[charsiewfan]

If jap, suv and hybrid then Toyota Yaris cross at 102k.

 

[MadeInAnfield]

New avante is quite nice

 

[ExEngineer]

Hi bro, great share. Fully agreed. I'm all for value for money. There's really no shame in getting second hand car. Everyone has a different story.

But just wanted to hear your thoughts on buying second hand COE jap car vs second hand PARF jap car.

Between PARF*** and COE , I think there are a few useful pros & cons to consider, no very obvious preference at least for me.

(*** What I mean by PARF here is “a few years old already”...not the “nearly new” kind I wrote about in previous posts. For “nearly new”, I think alternative option to compare is versus “brand new”. Realistically I don’t think many people are considering choosing between “PARF, nearly new” and COE).

COE car:

1. Cheaper annual depreciation, overall purchase cost etc

2. Breakdown/maintenance almost definitely more frequent for COE as car gets older, vs PARF car (but as long as Asian brand, cost may not be that much higher).

3. Financing options and interest rate worse vs PARF car (I believe this is true but worth confirming with dealers)

4. Less concern of drop in value if a new version of the model is launched on the market. For PARF cars between 4-8 years old, whenever the next version of the model launches, there is clearly a noticeable drop in the resale prices of the outgoing version. For COE cars (already >= 10yrs old), it usually anyway already not the current/latest model...usually already 1-2 generations “outdated”...so whether an even newer version launches, it doesn’t make that much difference to the market prices of these “already old” (and “already cheap”) COE models.

5. Longer commitment - most COE cars on the market (by dealers), have only just recently had the COE renewed - so even though the price may look attractive/lower vs PARF, you’re also signing up for a longer period of ownership (of course can always decide to sell, but recovery/resale price is a question mark). This can be a double edged sword - if you end up loving the car then you have a full 10 years ahead with relatively low cost of ownership....but if you end up not liking the car or it is problematic reliability-wise then you are kind of stuck with it. Whereas for PARF cars, if worried about committing for too many years of owning that particular vehicle, you can look for something with only a few years remaining on the original 10yr COE - say 3-5 years left to go; then if you end up loving the car you can always choose to renew COE, but if you don’t love the car then you have a natural “exit” within 3-5 years ie deregister.

For me personally, #5 is probably the biggest factor.
If I am very sure that a particular model will really suit me (design, specs, cost etc), then a Low-mileage COE car is probably the best overall value.
But if I’m not entirely sure that I will like the car enough to own over the entire renewed COE period, then I might view COE car prices to be misleadingly low, and a better choice would be to go for a “middle aged” PARF car (say 4-7 years old), even if more expensive annual cost vs COE car, because I have more flexibility in terms of ownership duration.

 

[NiTrOgEnZ]

Always been a fan of COE car. As long as you know what engines are reliable and durable, wear and tear shouldn't cost you too much. I pay lesser than a PARF car but get so much more. I.E my friend got a new kia cerato for 79k, 1.6l engine. I got a lexus IS250 for 58k, 2.5l v6 engine. Driving experience is so much better with the lexus.

 

[BigMonkey]

Always been a fan of COE car. As long as you know what engines are reliable and durable, wear and tear shouldn't cost you too much. I pay lesser than a PARF car but get so much more. I.E my friend got a new kia cerato for 79k, 1.6l engine. I got a lexus IS250 for 58k, 2.5l v6 engine. Driving experience is so much better with the lexus.

your road tax how much? 110% now?

 

[NiTrOgEnZ]

your road tax how much? 110% now?

Small price to pay for a good driving experience. Yea, 110% now.

 

[myviowner]

Always been a fan of COE car. As long as you know what engines are reliable and durable, wear and tear shouldn't cost you too much. I pay lesser than a PARF car but get so much more. I.E my friend got a new kia cerato for 79k, 1.6l engine. I got a lexus IS250 for 58k, 2.5l v6 engine. Driving experience is so much better with the lexus.

You are not comparring apple to apple leh... simi logic sia

 

[Infinite]

your road tax how much? 110% now?

you beat me to it. I was looking at a IS 250 and after checking the taxes... it was too crazy for my pocket. Though IS 250 is reliable, quiet, smooth and probably one of the more vfm Lexus.

 

[NiTrOgEnZ]

You are not comparring apple to apple leh... simi logic sia

I'm not comparing anything. Just trying to illustrate the difference in choice. Some pple value "new" over performance/driving experience. Some will spend 90k on a brand new avante, while others will spend 90k on a COE 5 series.

 

[NiTrOgEnZ]

you beat me to it. I was looking at a IS 250 and after checking the taxes... it was too crazy for my pocket. Though IS 250 is reliable, quiet, smooth and probably one of the more vfm Lexus.

So what car did u get in the end?

 

[andyhtc]

I notice a lot of COE IS250 now have easily 3-4 owners...

 

[NiTrOgEnZ]

I notice a lot of COE IS250 now have easily 3-4 owners...

not all ba. mine only had 1 previous owner, and mileage was quite low when i bought it.