[CONSOLIDATED][Ukraine Edition] Russian Invasion of Ukraine Has Begun!

[Nevereatrice]

IMO, this is the best way they can provide security guarantees for Ukraine without explicit guarantees. Because once US companies start building infrastructure there etc, any attack of these can become a larger incident than what Russia would want.

I still believe that Z man here is just being played by the Europeans. Here so many history experts maybe they can tell us why Western Europeans hate Russians lol

It's always the democracy vs communism. Usa invaded Vietnam bec they want to stop communism from spreading into sea


Yes, that was the main justification the U.S. gave for its involvement in Vietnam. The U.S. government, especially under the policy of containment, wanted to prevent the spread of communism in Southeast Asia. This was based on the Domino Theory, which suggested that if one country (like South Vietnam) fell to communism, neighboring countries (such as Laos, Cambodia, and Thailand) would follow, eventually threatening U.S. interests in the region.





However, while stopping communism was the official reason, there were also strategic and geopolitical motivations. The U.S. wanted to maintain influence in Asia, support its allies, and prevent the Soviet Union and China from gaining more power in the region. Over time, the war became more about preserving U.S. credibility and avoiding the perception of defeat rather than just stopping communism.

To preserve hegemony

 

[Forever84]

The truth plays both ways. You probably dont know about the phrase “not an ince eastward,” made by James Baker the then Secretary of State to Mikhail Gorbachev in front of the German government in 1990. That assurance was immediately pulled back among the Americans and German that was not communicated to the Russians. There was a book written on this. Because all along Russia wouldn’t have agreed to the end of the Cold War if they knew NATO would be eating into the former Soviet Union states.
NATO does not technically want a full blown confrontation with Russia but they are using the former Soviet Union states as buffer states and also taking resources from them.

Like I said, if today you’re the head of NATO, what do you think you will spend your time doing? Who is NATO enemy? what’s their mission statement? lol

 

[cal127]

Zelensky look more like the comedian and actor which he used to be rather than a leader.

A real leader will not put his country and citizens life as a pawn against a much bigger and stronger neighbour and he is stupid enough to believe Nato will back him up.

The war is totally avoidable via diplomacy at the start. Russia has repeatedly warn Ukraine and Nato not to allow Ukraine to join. The red line is already drawn to them.

Yet this joker Zelensky think Putin is just talking big and no action. He is actually playing with fire.

If he is really concern about security issue due to Russia, all the more he should use Nato as a bargaining chip to negotiate a long term peace deal with Russia in a way that as long Ukraine stay neutral and do not join Nato, Russia will not invade it unless Ukraine started a war with Russia. This alone will keep both Ukraine and Russia happy and avoided the war.

See now what happened ? Both side died a lot of men. Plus now Ukraine has to give part of their land to Russia and even minerals to US as debt repayment. Ukraine is the biggest loser in this war no doubt.

I cant say Russia is a big winner because they also paid a heavy price to occupy the land. Biggest winner is US. No casualty to their army and now can collect back the money plus interest from Ukraine.

The whole NATO justification for the invasion is revisionist twaddle. There already was NATO countries on Russia’s border. This justification has been invented since the 2 invasions, first Crimea in 2014 and the full scale invasion in 2022. People may also remember Putin called it a "special military operation" to remove Nazis and anyone who called it an invasion was locked up or fell out of a high window. The simple fact is that Putin just wanted to expand his empire. He miscalculated the Ukrainians would fold within a few days.

The Ukraine invasion is Putin’s attempt to take back the old Soviet satellite regions. He disputes Ukraine’s right to exist as a separate entity. Lots of justifications were made at the time, NATO membership wasn’t one of them. In addition, Ukraine wasn’t even in any NATO accession process. It’s just bot farm lies which the hard of thinking might be tempted to believe.

And well, following your NATO logic, Putin is not only a dictator but also an extremely stupid dictator. Because now Finland is in Nato and Finland has a very long border with Russia...Nato has never played a role in the story. Ukraine promulgated a neutrality (=no military blocks) in 2010. It was not enough for Putin.

The problem was that the people in the Ukraine were looking to the West (=EU). Can you blame them? Where would you move? To Berlin or to Moscow for a better life?

 

[Forever84]

That's why you see all these brainless anarchists sadists supporting Russia, China and Trump. The new axis of evil.

This thread should be moved to current affairs.

lol. You see the world as 1 sided. I just see it from both sides. I can argue for Europe point of view also which shows I took a balanced approach to look at both sides.

 

[HushiePuppies]

The truth plays both ways. You probably dont know about the phrase “not an ince eastward,” made by James Baker the then Secretary of State to Mikhail Gorbachev in front of the German government in 1990. That assurance was immediately pulled back among the Americans and German that was not communicated to the Russians. There was a book written on this. Because all along Russia wouldn’t have agreed to the end of the Cold War if they knew NATO would be eating into the former Soviet Union states.
NATO does not technically want a full blown confrontation with Russia but they are using the former Soviet Union states as buffer states and also taking resources from them.

NATO is just Putin excuse. Just like the "hinterland" was Hitler's excuse.


Why Zelensky even cared to run for election in the first place:

 

[GenXYZ]

ISD should stalk you haha

yes, threaten people whenever you don't agree with their opinion.

 

[HushiePuppies]

The whole NATO justification for the invasion is revisionist twaddle. There already was NATO countries on Russia’s border. This justification has been invented since the 2 invasions, first Crimea in 2014 and the full scale invasion in 2022. People may also remember Putin called it a "special military operation" to remove Nazis and anyone who called it an invasion was locked up or fell out of a high window. The simple fact is that Putin just wanted to expand his empire. He miscalculated the Ukrainians would fold within a few days.

The Ukraine invasion is Putin’s attempt to take back the old Soviet satellite regions. He disputes Ukraine’s right to exist as a separate entity. Lots of justifications were made at the time, NATO membership wasn’t one of them. In addition, Ukraine wasn’t even in any NATO accession process. It’s just bot farm lies which the hard of thinking might be tempted to believe.

And well, following your NATO logic, Putin is not only a dictator but also an extremely stupid dictator. Because now Finland is in Nato and Finland has a very long border with Russia...Nato has never played a role in the story. Ukraine promulgated a neutrality (=no military blocks) in 2010. It was not enough for Putin.

The problem was that the people in the Ukraine were looking to the West (=EU). Can you blame them? Where would you move? To Berlin or to Moscow for a better life?

totally agree. many here don't even watched the original show which spark it all.

the people of Ukraine, like many other places with "2 major political powers" are fed up with the choice of lesser of 2 evils so that's why they voted in Zelensky for change.

 

[Forever84]

The whole NATO justification for the invasion is revisionist twaddle. There already was NATO countries on Russia’s border. This justification has been invented since the 2 invasions, first Crimea in 2014 and the full scale invasion in 2022. People may also remember Putin called it a "special military operation" to remove Nazis and anyone who called it an invasion was locked up or fell out of a high window. The simple fact is that Putin just wanted to expand his empire. He miscalculated the Ukrainians would fold within a few days.

The Ukraine invasion is Putin’s attempt to take back the old Soviet satellite regions. He disputes Ukraine’s right to exist as a separate entity. Lots of justifications were made at the time, NATO membership wasn’t one of them. In addition, Ukraine wasn’t even in any NATO accession process. It’s just bot farm lies which the hard of thinking might be tempted to believe.

And well, following your NATO logic, Putin is not only a dictator but also an extremely stupid dictator. Because now Finland is in Nato and Finland has a very long border with Russia...Nato has never played a role in the story. Ukraine promulgated a neutrality (=no military blocks) in 2010. It was not enough for Putin.

The problem was that the people in the Ukraine were looking to the West (=EU). Can you blame them? Where would you move? To Berlin or to Moscow for a better life?

You mean this? Back in Dec 2021?

KYIV, Dec 9 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden assured Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy that Kyiv's bid to join the NATO military alliance was in its own hands, Zelenskiy's chief of staff said after the two leaders spoke on Thursday.

 

[dereth]

1. Ukraine should have pressed on and took out Moscow

2. The bullet should not have missed.

 

[Scrabby]

 

[byfun]

That's why you see all these brainless anarchists sadists supporting Russia, China and Trump. The new axis of evil.

This thread should be moved to current affairs.

You have to wake up to reality. Whether you support or dont support Russia, China or US or Trump, this is how the real world works.

Those big and super power country call the shots.

Smaller countries just have to be on the toe and dont try to get too close to anyone and be used as a pawn in whatever games they are playing and dont give them a good excuse to invade your country for nothing.

 

[Forever84]

You have to wake up to reality. Whether you support or dont support Russia, China or US or Trump, this is how the real world works.

Those big and super power country call the shots.

Smaller countries just have to be on the toe and dont try to get too close to anyone and be used as a pawn in whatever games they are playing and dont give them a good excuse to invade your country for nothing.

Yep. If the Europeans are so concern about Russia taking more territory westwards. Why they haven’t allow Ukraine to join NATO? Then they can activate article 5 and join the war to hoot Russia. Finland very nearby only ma, drive abit reach laio

 

[cal127]

You too brainwashed by MSM. Always needing to paint someone as the enemy to feed the military industrial complex. Putin wanted to join NATO back in 2000 but Europe declined. You declined Russia but allow other smaller nations around their countries to join. What does that show? You trying to make an enemy out of me while encircling me?

who was one of the first countries to support US to go into ME after Sept 11? Even before NATO? Russia. Russia even provided airspace, logistics and intel support when US went into Afghanistan. That was only 1 or 2 years after Putin’s first term. So you’d rather make an enemy forever then negotiate for peace? Seems exactly what the military industrial complex wants. No war no money.

Dumb comment, lacking understanding of the situation filled with empty accusations. Read my above comment for a reply.

 

[Forever84]

Can already see the outcome.

status quo. Ukraine loses some land. They remain outside of NATO.

and all the people who died? They died for nothing. Just some dreams they could become Western Europeans

 

[GoneNuts]

so china attack taiwan, then taiwan president lai is a joke too if he not tactful and seem desperate as taiwan under attack from China?

OR if we are attacked from some neighbouring country, we just give up and surrender? We must be tactful when we sinkies kana bombed and killed,? u expect our PM to be nice and tactful then no condition surrender ?

U know once we surrender, u know the enemy will lape/murder sinkies right? u forget what happened in 1942?

What if you already feel being lape/murder by iwn govt everyday laio.. wats the diff then...

 

[dereth]

ISD should stalk those pro-russian sympathizers. Can spot a lot in this thread. Maybe invite them go lim kopi.

After LKY's passing, the law is now so weak.

Communist sympathizers are rampant in our society.

 

[HushiePuppies]

Basically this sums it up for trump, vance and zelensky:

 

[cal127]

You too brainwashed by MSM. Always needing to paint someone as the enemy to feed the military industrial complex. Putin wanted to join NATO back in 2000 but Europe declined. You declined Russia but allow other smaller nations around their countries to join. What does that show? You trying to make an enemy out of me while encircling me?

who was one of the first countries to support US to go into ME after Sept 11? Even before NATO? Russia. Russia even provided airspace, logistics and intel support when US went into Afghanistan. That was only 1 or 2 years after Putin’s first term. So you’d rather make an enemy forever then negotiate for peace? Seems exactly what the military industrial complex wants. No war no money.

Why are u babbling bringing in industrial complex and the ME in? Those are circumstantial at best. Ukraine wasn't in even a military alliance with NATO or America, either. Also, you're well aware (Putin certainly is) that NATO and Ukraine were NEVER going to start a war against Russia out of the clear blue sky... right? If NATO wanted to do that, then they could have done that long ago, and wiped Russia off the map (or sent purely conventional forces through the Baltics). You know that. Come off it. You're making excuses for Putin's warmongering efforts because you know he had no excuse for it. You and Putin both know that NATO never once started any war against Russia. If he hadn't started his unprovoked war, Ukraine, Russia, and the West would all be trading peacefully to this day. I swear to God, after peace finally comes and Putin's fascist regime falls (possibly in a coup, which he well deserves after doing this to the world and to Russia), the thing I'll be second-happiest about (besides the end of his fascist lying) is the end of all this lying and gaslighting.

 

[Forever84]

Why are u babbling bringing in industrial complex and the ME in? Those are circumstantial at best. Ukraine wasn't in even a military alliance with NATO or America, either. Also, you're well aware (Putin certainly is) that NATO and Ukraine were NEVER going to start a war against Russia out of the clear blue sky... right? If NATO wanted to do that, then they could have done that long ago, and wiped Russia off the map (or sent purely conventional forces through the Baltics). You know that. Come off it. You're making excuses for Putin's warmongering efforts because you know he had no excuse for it. You and Putin both know that NATO never once started any war against Russia. If he hadn't started his unprovoked war, Ukraine, Russia, and the West would all be trading peacefully to this day. I swear to God, after peace finally comes and Putin's fascist regime falls (possibly in a coup, which he well deserves after doing this to the world and to Russia), the thing I'll be second-happiest about (besides the end of his fascist lying) is the end of all his lying and gaslighting.

Then what was the point of this long phone conversation: https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...ing-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/

 

[dereth]

Why are u babbling bringing in industrial complex and the ME in? Those are circumstantial at best. Ukraine wasn't in even a military alliance with NATO or America, either. Also, you're well aware (Putin certainly is) that NATO and Ukraine were NEVER going to start a war against Russia out of the clear blue sky... right? If NATO wanted to do that, then they could have done that long ago, and wiped Russia off the map (or sent purely conventional forces through the Baltics). You know that. Come off it. You're making excuses for Putin's warmongering efforts because you know he had no excuse for it. You and Putin both know that NATO never once started any war against Russia. If he hadn't started his unprovoked war, Ukraine, Russia, and the West would all be trading peacefully to this day. I swear to God, after peace finally comes and Putin's fascist regime falls (possibly in a coup, which he well deserves after doing this to the world and to Russia), the thing I'll be second-happiest about (besides the end of his fascist lying) is the end of all his lying and gaslighting.

Along with Trump and Xi.