Copen Grand EC

Robertcarrot

Banned
Joined
Jul 4, 2022
Messages
208
Reaction score
227
Some of the crypto bros told me that when they put in Anchor Protocol

But now they need to work harder and longer.

Such is life. :(
Honestly, I never see buying new launch EC as an form of investment before. It is more for pple buying for self stay. Need to lock in both spouse names and need to wait for 9-10 years (build +mop) then can earn just average of 300-400k after 10 years, where got time when one has to lose on opportunity cost lol. Plus dp for EC new launch is higher than buying PC. Want to invest rather invest in a good PC like jadescape, Stirling, Parc esta, seaside R etc.. qin qin Cai cai can cash out about 300k profit only after holding 4 years only and can use just one name to buy. To rent out PC also no need to wait for MOP like EC. So many restrictions for EC. That said, the boat had sailed if buy anything now.
https://www.99.co/singapore/insider/all-ecs-resold-past-15-years-profit-s300k/amp/
 
Last edited:

8zaoyu

Master Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2018
Messages
3,744
Reaction score
766
Government already clam down on the bto lottery effect and the million dollar hdb issue with the introduction of PLH.

Won’t surprise me to see tweaks to EC coming soon to curtail this huge downpayment requirement issue, in additional to rising the income ceiling to 18k.
How exactly, not sure but some ideas:
1) scrap the EC scheme
2) increase MOP like PLH
3) similar crawl back profits like PLH
4) restricting size/quantum in view of income ceiling of ec requirement
5) sale of ec to only ec eligible buyers like PLH

faster buy the current EC scheme, I think it’s coming to an end soon. If this does happen, existing resale EC prices will chiong even further
Agree. Waste land to build ECs. Just have pte condos with their swimming pools, gyms, karaoke and function rooms, it is the youngsters' dream lifestyle NOT the tiny PLH BTOs (especially 3-rm) with clawbacks and nowadays 2nd Timers (agreeable to clawbacks), high salary liao- want also cannot get easily
 

marshmallow96

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2021
Messages
1,711
Reaction score
1,528
Remember they stopped building EC for a few years then after the “watershed” GE2011, they restarted EC in 2012 to take care of the sandwich class? Gahmen don’t need scrap the EC scheme altogether, after all they control the land sales mah, if happy they release more sites for EC, if not then they just don’t launch sites for EC…
 

Guixianren

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2018
Messages
1,651
Reaction score
1,261


Another youtube star commenting on unwise decision to buy CG EC, seem like a broad majority have been shouting at the risks of record EC prices..of course except EC

Agree that the EC launch price is very high. However this genius looks like he didn’t do his research into Copen Grand. MAS warning should not be ignored, indeed there are risks involved, but as he mentioned, he don’t believe Singaporeans are stupid. So he looks to me like he’s trying to make sense why people buying into ECs at these prices.

The land bid price for Copen Grand was around $603 psf. The nearest area currently for comparison is the plot for Lakeside Apartments where the land bid price was $1077 psf (source: https://www.edgeprop.sg/amp/property-news/lakeside-apartments-jurong-west-en-bloc-sale-240-mil). Sure they may launch as condo but factoring in the material and labour cost plus the premium developers are going to charge it’s going to be way higher than the average $1.3k psf paid for Copen Grand.

Inflation is going to stay for more than a couple of years, developers aren’t going to be selling for a loss. Inflation means material, labour costs are all going to be more expensive. Near term there may be lowered demand due to MAS warning but land appreciation over the long term will still be there. When new private condos launch in the Tengah area, that’s when the value of the project will start to unlock. Copen Grand is in the middle and within walking distance of all 3 MRTs which are going to be operational in 2027, and is close to the west side industrial estates.

What may seem expensive at this point may seem cheap maybe 10-15 years down the road. Just like how MacDonald’s ice cream cones were just 50 cents 15 years ago and are now $1. With Covid many households became flushed with cash if they bought into the stock market during the 2020 flash crash and with the incredible recovery during the Trump years. Some may also be reaching the 16k income ceiling for ECs and cannot wait out to purchase after 3-6 months.

Plus many ah tiongs are entering the Singapore property market, with more to come. They are flushed with cash so of course when the floodgates open they chiong in. (Source: https://www.ft.com/content/a0c11e3e-ab72-4b4b-a55c-557191e53938) These ah tiongs get their citizenship easily.

So will new condos be priced lower than $1.3k psf in Tengah? Highly unlikely.
The “record” 1679 sqf penthouse had a lower psf of $1.2k. Buyers looking for larger units in size-restrained Singapore. Landed downgraders make up a huge proportion of this group. With private condos launching at average 2k psf, EC is the next best alternative for HDB upgraders. TOP is in 2026-2027, by then inflation would more or less have come down, and banks usually offer one free conversion for loans.

Would the government introduce curbs for ECs or raise the income ceiling? Already there is discontentment arising saying “why are Singaporeans paying tax to subsidise these rich people”, so why would they increase the income ceiling again if that would cost them politically? Maybe through adjusting the banks’ rates but they have to carefully navigate this since it would also mean existing homeowners would be impacted.
 
Last edited:

elvintay07

Suspended
Joined
Jan 4, 2022
Messages
12,367
Reaction score
4,441
Agree that the EC launch price is very high. However this genius looks like he didn’t do his research into Copen Grand. MAS warning should not be ignored, indeed there are risks involved, but as he mentioned, he don’t believe Singaporeans are stupid. So he looks to me like he’s trying to make sense why people buying into ECs at these prices.

The land bid price for Copen Grand was around $603 psf. The nearest area currently for comparison is the plot for Lakeside Apartments where the land bid price was $1077 psf (source: https://www.edgeprop.sg/amp/property-news/lakeside-apartments-jurong-west-en-bloc-sale-240-mil). Sure they may launch as condo but factoring in the material and labour cost plus the premium developers are going to charge it’s going to be way higher than the average $1.3k psf paid for Copen Grand.

Inflation is going to stay for more than a couple of years, developers aren’t going to be selling for a loss. Inflation means material, labour costs are all going to be more expensive. Near term there may be lowered demand due to MAS warning but land appreciation over the long term will still be there. When new private condos launch in the Tengah area, that’s when the value of the project will start to unlock. Copen Grand is in the middle and within walking distance of all 3 MRTs which are going to be operational in 2027, and is close to the west side industrial estates.

What may seem expensive at this point may seem cheap maybe 10-15 years down the road. Just like how MacDonald’s ice cream cones were just 50 cents 15 years ago and are now $1. With Covid many households became flushed with cash if they bought into the stock market during the 2020 flash crash and with the incredible recovery during the Trump years. Some may also be reaching the 16k income ceiling for ECs and cannot wait out to purchase after 3-6 months.

Plus many ah tiongs are entering the Singapore property market, with more to come. They are flushed with cash so of course when the floodgates open they chiong in. (Source: https://www.ft.com/content/a0c11e3e-ab72-4b4b-a55c-557191e53938) These ah tiongs get their citizenship easily.

So will new condos be priced lower than $1.3k psf in Tengah? Highly unlikely.
The “record” 1679 sqf penthouse had a lower psf of $1.2k. Buyers looking for larger units in size-restrained Singapore. Landed downgraders make up a huge proportion of this group. With private condos launching at average 2k psf, EC is the next best alternative for HDB upgraders. TOP is in 2026-2027, by then inflation would more or less have come down, and banks usually offer one free conversion for loans.

Would the government introduce curbs for ECs or raise the income ceiling? Already there is discontentment arising saying “why are Singaporeans paying tax to subsidise these rich people”, so why would they increase the income ceiling again if that would cost them politically? Maybe through adjusting the banks’ rates but they have to carefully navigate this since it would also mean existing homeowners would be impacted.
Agree. Condo confirm will be higher than $1,300. Easily $1,700 psf. I also agree short term maybe flat or have some downtrend but long term it will be unaffordable if you don’t invest today.
 

sellipad2

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2011
Messages
2,125
Reaction score
1,201
its going to raise alot eyebrow when government is using taxpayers' money to subsidize EC buyers when they can afford $1.2M cash/cpf in downpayment, while edmwer only have $20k
 

Perishable

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
Messages
1,459
Reaction score
1,008
Honestly, I never see buying new launch EC as an form of investment before. It is more for pple buying for self stay. Need to lock in both spouse names and need to wait for 9-10 years (build +mop) then can earn just average of 300-400k after 10 years, where got time when one has to lose on opportunity cost lol. Plus dp for EC new launch is higher than buying PC. Want to invest rather invest in a good PC like jadescape, Stirling, Parc esta, seaside R etc.. qin qin Cai cai can cash out about 300k profit only after holding 4 years only and can use just one name to buy. To rent out PC also no need to wait for MOP like EC. So many restrictions for EC. That said, the boat had sailed if buy anything now.
https://www.99.co/singapore/insider/all-ecs-resold-past-15-years-profit-s300k/amp/
EC is bao jiak profit one. Statistics don’t lie, 99% of all EC make money. Even the new EC at 1.3k psf today, should be able to make a decent profit after mop (8-9 years, ec take only 3+ years to build). Home-vestor is big thing in Singapore and why bto is so popular.

Private new launch right now is expensive, how many can make a profit? Buying at 1.8k-2.1k psf or higher. Overleveraging in this high interest rate environment is super dangerous.

safe, low leverage and guaranteed profits beats risky and speculative, especially when it comes to property. Risky bets can go to wc betting, crypto or even stocks.
 

delfina

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Messages
14,241
Reaction score
849
Agree that the EC launch price is very high. However this genius looks like he didn’t do his research into Copen Grand. MAS warning should not be ignored, indeed there are risks involved, but as he mentioned, he don’t believe Singaporeans are stupid. So he looks to me like he’s trying to make sense why people buying into ECs at these prices.

The land bid price for Copen Grand was around $603 psf. The nearest area currently for comparison is the plot for Lakeside Apartments where the land bid price was $1077 psf (source: https://www.edgeprop.sg/amp/property-news/lakeside-apartments-jurong-west-en-bloc-sale-240-mil). Sure they may launch as condo but factoring in the material and labour cost plus the premium developers are going to charge it’s going to be way higher than the average $1.3k psf paid for Copen Grand.

Inflation is going to stay for more than a couple of years, developers aren’t going to be selling for a loss. Inflation means material, labour costs are all going to be more expensive. Near term there may be lowered demand due to MAS warning but land appreciation over the long term will still be there. When new private condos launch in the Tengah area, that’s when the value of the project will start to unlock. Copen Grand is in the middle and within walking distance of all 3 MRTs which are going to be operational in 2027, and is close to the west side industrial estates.

What may seem expensive at this point may seem cheap maybe 10-15 years down the road. Just like how MacDonald’s ice cream cones were just 50 cents 15 years ago and are now $1. With Covid many households became flushed with cash if they bought into the stock market during the 2020 flash crash and with the incredible recovery during the Trump years. Some may also be reaching the 16k income ceiling for ECs and cannot wait out to purchase after 3-6 months.

Plus many ah tiongs are entering the Singapore property market, with more to come. They are flushed with cash so of course when the floodgates open they chiong in. (Source: https://www.ft.com/content/a0c11e3e-ab72-4b4b-a55c-557191e53938) These ah tiongs get their citizenship easily.

So will new condos be priced lower than $1.3k psf in Tengah? Highly unlikely.
The “record” 1679 sqf penthouse had a lower psf of $1.2k. Buyers looking for larger units in size-restrained Singapore. Landed downgraders make up a huge proportion of this group. With private condos launching at average 2k psf, EC is the next best alternative for HDB upgraders. TOP is in 2026-2027, by then inflation would more or less have come down, and banks usually offer one free conversion for loans.

Would the government introduce curbs for ECs or raise the income ceiling? Already there is discontentment arising saying “why are Singaporeans paying tax to subsidise these rich people”, so why would they increase the income ceiling again if that would cost them politically? Maybe through adjusting the banks’ rates but they have to carefully navigate this since it would also mean existing homeowners would be impacted.
Hello are you my agent? The points are similar to what agents are touting :(
 

Rxgn

Supremacy Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2002
Messages
7,386
Reaction score
702
Agree. Condo confirm will be higher than $1,300. Easily $1,700 psf. I also agree short term maybe flat or have some downtrend but long term it will be unaffordable if you don’t invest today.
easily over $2000 psf

no more under $1999 @ OCR
 

bujingyun82

Senior Member
Joined
May 3, 2005
Messages
2,458
Reaction score
1,176
Honestly, I never see buying new launch EC as an form of investment before. It is more for pple buying for self stay. Need to lock in both spouse names and need to wait for 9-10 years (build +mop) then can earn just average of 300-400k after 10 years, where got time when one has to lose on opportunity cost lol. Plus dp for EC new launch is higher than buying PC. Want to invest rather invest in a good PC like jadescape, Stirling, Parc esta, seaside R etc.. qin qin Cai cai can cash out about 300k profit only after holding 4 years only and can use just one name to buy. To rent out PC also no need to wait for MOP like EC. So many restrictions for EC. That said, the boat had sailed if buy anything now.
https://www.99.co/singapore/insider/all-ecs-resold-past-15-years-profit-s300k/amp/

I can share my perspective. I just an innocent young Singaporean looking for my first home more than 10 years ago and know nuts about property. I didn’t even know this forum existed back then.

I buy EC to stay and I know quite safe. I would have gone for BTO that time if I could. But income exceed liao. I believe many Singaporeans like me. 2 chances to hoot subsidised property from government with very little risk. Why don’t want?

but if I have my wisdom now and put into my mind decade ago, I may not. Have better property planning. Risk vs rewards. Go straight for PC and in out faster.
 

delfina

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Messages
14,241
Reaction score
849
I can share my perspective. I just an innocent young Singaporean looking for my first home more than 10 years ago and know nuts about property. I didn’t even know this forum existed back then.

I buy EC to stay and I know quite safe. I would have gone for BTO that time if I could. But income exceed liao. I believe many Singaporeans like me. 2 chances to hoot subsidised property from government with very little risk. Why don’t want?

but if I have my wisdom now and put into my mind decade ago, I may not. Have better property planning. Risk vs rewards. Go straight for PC and in out faster.
Congrats on your Huat kueh :o
 

Robertcarrot

Banned
Joined
Jul 4, 2022
Messages
208
Reaction score
227
I can share my perspective. I just an innocent young Singaporean looking for my first home more than 10 years ago and know nuts about property. I didn’t even know this forum existed back then.

I buy EC to stay and I know quite safe. I would have gone for BTO that time if I could. But income exceed liao. I believe many Singaporeans like me. 2 chances to hoot subsidised property from government with very little risk. Why don’t want?

but if I have my wisdom now and put into my mind decade ago, I may not. Have better property planning. Risk vs rewards. Go straight for PC and in out faster.
It was beginner luck for me. I cash out my first PC at a profit of 400k thereabout in the 200x era, just stayed less than 10 months. I was glad I didn’t go for EC that time even though I qualify (I also dunno y but probably I never like the EC restriction) else I will be locked in by mop period of another 5 years which will make me lose a lot of opportunity cost during the wait. And true enough, I bought and sell a couple of PCs during that 5 years span before the 2013 CM kicks in. No regrets at all.
 
Last edited:

elvintay07

Suspended
Joined
Jan 4, 2022
Messages
12,367
Reaction score
4,441
I can share my perspective. I just an innocent young Singaporean looking for my first home more than 10 years ago and know nuts about property. I didn’t even know this forum existed back then.

I buy EC to stay and I know quite safe. I would have gone for BTO that time if I could. But income exceed liao. I believe many Singaporeans like me. 2 chances to hoot subsidised property from government with very little risk. Why don’t want?

but if I have my wisdom now and put into my mind decade ago, I may not. Have better property planning. Risk vs rewards. Go straight for PC and in out faster.
You are correct. Condo only 3 years to flip whereas EC take 8 years to flip. Theoretically if you make $500k over 8 years for EC, u just need to make $150k for 3 years if you flip condo. So shiok. Of course condo if you know how to flip.

EC is good because u don’t need to sell ur property and for HDB upgraders. HDB cannot decouple.
 

Robertcarrot

Banned
Joined
Jul 4, 2022
Messages
208
Reaction score
227
You are correct. Condo only 3 years to flip whereas EC take 8 years to flip. Theoretically if you make $500k over 8 years for EC, u just need to make $150k for 3 years if you flip condo. So shiok. Of course condo if you know how to flip.

EC is good because u don’t need to sell ur property and for HDB upgraders. HDB cannot decouple.
Talking about selling, last week just collected cheque from a buyer after holding for 4 years. Like the flexibility of selling PC anytime after SSD. Will be actively looking for an investment unit when price/time is right.
 
Last edited:

elvintay07

Suspended
Joined
Jan 4, 2022
Messages
12,367
Reaction score
4,441
Talking about selling, last week just collected cheque from a buyer after holding for 4 years. Like the flexibility of selling PC anytime after SSD. Will be actively looking for a replacement unit when price/time is right.
Yes. I think if got skills like u, best to hoot condo la. But I can guarantee u many ppl hoot wrongly. Everyone say they follow Warren Buffett theory but all lose money. 😆! Talk theory is easy, know how to do is another thing
 

Robertcarrot

Banned
Joined
Jul 4, 2022
Messages
208
Reaction score
227
Yes. I think if got skills like u, best to hoot condo la. But I can guarantee u many ppl hoot wrongly. Everyone say they follow Warren Buffett theory but all lose money. 😆! Talk theory is easy, know how to do is another thing
Don’t buy something too niche, too boutique, too expensive FH, weird layout, high quantum CCR and I think u will be quite safe generally. Go for those family oriented ones with proper layout and good schools around. And most importantly, Just don’t be a carrot and pay record price within your project can Liao. Frankly, No need a lot of skills. Now the problem is nothing much left to buy.
 
Last edited:

momoeagle

Master Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
2,800
Reaction score
519
Government already clam down on the bto lottery effect and the million dollar hdb issue with the introduction of PLH.

Won’t surprise me to see tweaks to EC coming soon to curtail this huge downpayment requirement issue, in additional to rising the income ceiling to 18k.
How exactly, not sure but some ideas:
1) scrap the EC scheme
2) increase MOP like PLH
3) similar crawl back profits like PLH
4) restricting size/quantum in view of income ceiling of ec requirement
5) sale of ec to only ec eligible buyers like PLH

faster buy the current EC scheme, I think it’s coming to an end soon. If this does happen, existing resale EC prices will chiong even further
There's one more possibility.
Restrict decoupling of ECs like what's done for HDBs.
 

elvintay07

Suspended
Joined
Jan 4, 2022
Messages
12,367
Reaction score
4,441
Don’t buy something too niche, too boutique, too expensive FH, weird layout, high quantum CCR and I think u will be quite safe generally. Go for those family oriented ones with proper layout and good schools around. And most importantly, Just don’t be a carrot and pay record price within your project can Liao. Frankly, No need a lot of skills. Now the problem is nothing much left to buy.
All u say AMO meet lei. But ppl say they may lose money. Haha!
 

Robertcarrot

Banned
Joined
Jul 4, 2022
Messages
208
Reaction score
227
All u say AMO meet lei. But ppl say they may lose money. Haha!
I never say amo location no good hor, I just don’t like the price and layout, :o
2.2/2.3kpsf at amk, mai lah.
Project size of 3xx units is also on smallish side.
 
Last edited:
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ Forums. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts. Please refer to our Community Guidelines and Standards and Terms and Conditions for more information.
Top