Corporate bonds

[Keverus]

U recommend dbs for bond purchase yet u have never used it before?

Its like saying this stall chicken rice good but u never eat before wor?

i reco dbs because i had pleasant experience with them as compared to ocbc.

but it's ok la, i know u're just bitter and jealous.

 

[Keverus]

As pointed by others your information on widest selection and best price is incorrect. Thanks

omg, my info is wrong. guess i have to jump bedok reservoir nao!

 

[neanea]

Never buy bond before want to recommend broker?

 

[Keverus]

Never buy bond before want to recommend broker?

ppl try to be helpful, u dont appreciate? fine lor.

btw mr smarty pants, bonds are technically not stocks, shares or indices. ur ang moh fail? next time, post under money mind..

 

[Keverus]

If out of topic, why u still replied and give strong recommendation to use your dbs treasures?

becuase every post i make in favor of dbs/dbs treasures, piyush gupta paying me ma.

 

[Majestic12]

yup. never. problem, felix? unlike you, i dont proclaim to know everything under the sun.

i dont see buying bonds as an attractive investment for me now anyway.

This Felix guy is back? I remember him threatening me via PM and insisting to settle things outside after I exposed some of the nonsense he was spewing about corporate bonds.

Exhibit A:

---

"u not happy then we come out meet and settle la

give me your number and I call you now!

else u are just a balless ** dog"

---

If we do get physical, I worry for him.

 

[Perisher]

This Felix guy is back? I remember him threatening me via PM and insisting to settle things outside after I exposed some of the nonsense he was spewing about corporate bonds.

Peaceful and meaningful discussion. Thank.

 

[Keverus]

This Felix guy is back? I remember him threatening me via PM and insisting to settle things outside after I exposed some of the nonsense he was spewing about corporate bonds.

Exhibit A:

---

"u not happy then we come out meet and settle la

give me your number and I call you now!

else u are just a balless ** dog"

---

If we do get physical, I worry for him.

you can input ur opinion here:
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/o...d-account-continued-run-freely-5086001-2.html

 

[Keverus]

He paying u what?

1k angpow.

nvr read news?

 

[Keverus]

U say if get physical u worry for him. Thats good and very confident words. But if u really not scared why u didnt dare to meet him? And instead try to stab people online ?

because not everyone is as childish as you, i meant felix.

 

[wondrdoggie]

TS, you asked about corporate bonds quite a few times in the past already. If you are really keen and eligible (for those 250k bite size), you should be able to get all the info you need from your broker or RM.

Pricing for bonds in the secondary market in sg is opaque and the market is made by a few traders. Whatever price list you see is not always real prices. You only know how much you get or pay when you are seriously about a trade. There is no point asking which banks have the best prices. Instead, you should negotiate bond spreads that your bank charges you.

 

[SpeedingBullet]

Dont know about POEMS, but I know CIMB Securities priced new issue bonds at par price to client(they get a 20 basis point rebate from PB) and for otc bonds they charge 20 basis points on the firm offer price.

So lets say you manage to buy Genting perp at 99.80, you will only need to pay (99.80 + 0.20) x 2500 + accrued interest.

Simply put it, for CIMB securities, new issue bonds are priced at par which means client can get it at 250k exactly and otc bond clients can get at 0.2% coms. You can compare it with your RM, they are always much more expensive be it new issue or otc. My view.

Yes we are talking about the 250k per lot otc bonds. Do note when you buy bonds thru your bank, they will store it in their custodian, if you buy thru your broker, it goes into your cdp. There is pros and cons. Good thing about putting bond in cdp is that it is safer, but if you want to sell, you need to sign form 4.2 to transfer out(takes 1-2 days). Bonds stored in your bank custodian, can sell anytime, but you will have to take a bigger com cut from your RM when you sell.

I didn't know CIMB Securities can trade OTC bonds.

Ya of course if bought by PB it's under their custody lah, shdn't be anywhere else, if not they give such rates only to let their clients store in CDP meh

Ok that's interesting.. i've never heard of anyone trading thru their brokerages cos PBs give the best rates (at par, below par sometimes, or with really cheap margin financing) esp if you're a big client, better than any brokerage can offer.

TS, you asked about corporate bonds quite a few times in the past already. If you are really keen and eligible (for those 250k bite size), you should be able to get all the info you need from your broker or RM.

Pricing for bonds in the secondary market in sg is opaque and the market is made by a few traders. Whatever price list you see is not always real prices. You only know how much you get or pay when you are seriously about a trade. There is no point asking which banks have the best prices. Instead, you should negotiate bond spreads that your bank charges you.

neanea is a well-known Money Mind troll what

 

[Keverus]

neanea is a well-known Money Mind troll what

what?

now i feel stupid

 

[wondrdoggie]

I didn't know CIMB Securities can trade OTC bonds.

Ya of course if bought by PB it's under their custody lah, shdn't be anywhere else, if not they give such rates only to let their clients store in CDP meh

Ok that's interesting.. i've never heard of anyone trading thru their brokerages cos PBs give the best rates (at par, below par sometimes, or with really cheap margin financing) esp if you're a big client, better than any brokerage can offer.

neanea is a well-known Money Mind troll what

I think for retail bonds, can trade via any brokerage. But those institutional investor trenches ones with 100k/250k bite size (I noticed SGD bonds usually 250k, other currency and international bonds tend to be 100k), can only be bought or traded via private banks. However, I know you can also trade 250k bonds via priority banking tiers like DBS Treasures provided you get accreditated by them. How I know? Because I asked them before.

I have never bought retail bonds before. I have bought and traded many bonds (SGD as well as USD, Euro, CNY, HKD etc) via a few private banks. Base prices always the same for SGD ones because all from same few deal makers, what differs is the bank spread that your bank charges.

I have also used leverage to buy bonds before, in some cases I use loans to hedge against currency risks. In some cases, it's to get more yield. Rates I get depends on my relationship with the bank and my negotiated spreads. The amt of leverage I can get depends on the type of bond I am buying (investment grade can borrow more) or type of loan structure I have with the bank. I can use all my aum as collateral then I am not constrained by bond rating. PB rates are always better than priority or retail banking.

 

[wondrdoggie]

Another note about investing in bonds. Most bond issues in SG are unrated and unsecured. The chance of a default is pretty real. In the 4-5 years that I have been investing, I have already kenna swiber and olam. It puts a dent in any portfolio to have a default of 250k looming. Both were unrated and like many others, I was attracted by rates of up to 7%. But it also doesn't mean that if it's rated it's safe. I know 2 people who invested in rated Brazilian oil bonds and are either going through a default situation right now or looking at massive losses of 40%.

So my conclusion is that for long term stability, I would rather accept lower yields from bond funds because at 250k a pop, I don't have enough to try to plan a bond portfolio or at least 30 bonds with enough width to lower my risk.

My 2 cents about investing in bonds.

 

[Keverus]

wondrdoggie, thanks for all your sharing.

just curious, olam bonds should be fine isnt it? thght temasek white knighted them?

 

[SCG8866T]

I think for retail bonds, can trade via any brokerage. But those institutional investor trenches ones with 100k/250k bite size (I noticed SGD bonds usually 250k, other currency and international bonds tend to be 100k), can only be bought or traded via private banks. However, I know you can also trade 250k bonds via priority banking tiers like DBS Treasures provided you get accreditated by them. How I know? Because I asked them before.

I have never bought retail bonds before. I have bought and traded many bonds (SGD as well as USD, Euro, CNY, HKD etc) via a few private banks. Base prices always the same for SGD ones because all from same few deal makers, what differs is the bank spread that your bank charges.

I have also used leverage to buy bonds before, in some cases I use loans to hedge against currency risks. In some cases, it's to get more yield. Rates I get depends on my relationship with the bank and my negotiated spreads. The amt of leverage I can get depends on the type of bond I am buying (investment grade can borrow more) or type of loan structure I have with the bank. I can use all my aum as collateral then I am not constrained by bond rating. PB rates are always better than priority or retail banking.

Not true. Dont ever buy any bond from your RM. All bonds can be bought via your brokerage at a better price.

I can buy new issue 250k otc bonds at par price from my brokerage.
I can buy otc 250k bond via secondary market at 0.2%-0.18% coms via my brokerage.
You can never get these kind of rates at DBS treasures.

Also I prefer my bonds to go into my cdp rather than into a bank custodian because it will expose you to additional business risk for the latter.

 

[Perisher]

Not true. Dont ever buy any bond from your RM. All bonds can be bought via your brokerage at a better price.

wondrdoggie comes across as someone who isn't that particular about paying her RM as long as it's profitable so I suppose you are preaching to the wrong person. I realise she doesn't scrutinize price that much or at least I assumed so. Her expertise lies somewhere else, e.g. investing in start-up.

No offense intended, just an observation. May not be true.
And yes, thank wondrdoggie for always willing to share.

 

[Keverus]

wondrdoggie comes across as someone who isn't that particular about paying her RM as long as it's profitable so I suppose you are preaching to the wrong person. I realise she doesn't scrutinize price that much or at least I assumed so. Her expertise lies somewhere else, e.g. investing in start-up.

No offense intended, just an observation. May not be true.
And yes, thank wondrdoggie for always willing to share.

haha, dont see why anyone would take offence. well, some ppl believe in xiao cai bu chu, da cai bu ru. some ppl believe in ji shao cheng duo.

as long as can huat is the best!

 

[Perisher]

Must 先礼后兵，以礼待人，切勿先入为主。If not later bo dai bo ji start some flame war, suddenly got spam all over many threads... ahem... smh.