CPF Account Value Thread 2025

[reddevil0728]

If you are below “FRS+” participation in CPF/CPF LIFE whether by choice, design, fate, or accident then yes, you might bump into some marginal age 55+ liquidity constraints on your $8K SA top up.

In summary, with SA top ups:

”FRS+”: no age 55+ liquidity constraints. The money is fungible, and with more interest (“more than 1:1”).
”Below FRS+”: might be marginal age 55+ liquidity constraints.

Is the second scenario even worth worrying about for most people? I vote no.

noted about your vote and your opinion, but i am more keen on how it works.

i don't think just because one shouldn't do it or it is worrying, means one cannot understand how it works right?

I don't believe that's what you are saying or are you???

 

[Nicholas92]

oh? hmmm

why is it not at least $1 to $1.

u replace employment contribution dollar by your top-up dollar. then technically the employment contribution 1 can withdraw right?

Because there was a base 5k and 20% you could have withdrawn in the first place. So if you compare "with and without" basis, its not 1:1.

 

[Nicholas92]

Nobody who meets and keeps at least the FRS cares or should care about whether you can withdraw $5,000 or $10,000 below the FRS. You don’t willingly shoot your retirement self in both your feet if you can possibly avoid it.

If you’re aiming below the FRS and want to plan around a far too basic retirement, OK, worry all you like I suppose. Your worry will probably be expensive. (Has anyone looked at the FRS-level CPF LIFE payouts and the price of eggs, chicken, electricity, and other necessities of life? Come on, get real. Trying to yank $5,000 or whatever out of your Retirement Account will be about the last thing you’d ever voluntarily want to do.)

This is the liquidity hill to die on? Seriously? Please never buy a house in Singapore (especially not a HDB flat) if this is the liquidity hill you’re worried about.

Oh you've made some very solid and good insights here, but its quite off tangent to what I was discussing about haha.

 

[reddevil0728]

Because there was a base 5k and 20% you could have withdrawn in the first place. So if you compare "with and without" basis, its not 1:1.

so technically it will be more than 1:1 la?

 

[henrylbh]

what if for the sake of my own knowledge, i want to keep it simple to the scenario i am referring to just to make sure my understanding is correct?

That's his habits and pattern. Nice if asked for simple wash, the person washing my car go on to polish my rim and tyres and vacuum the insides of my car and polish my dashboard, mirror etc and then spray parfum

 

[reddevil0728]

That's his habits and pattern. Nice if asked for simple wash, the person washing my car go on to polish my rim and tyres and vacuum the insides of my car and polish my dashboard, mirror etc and then spray parfum

hence it's important to call out.

sometimes just answering the question is sufficient. don't answer more than necessary. then you end up diluting your point.

 

[BBCWatcher]

"Explain how the universe works in 3 words."

Uh, no, it may not be possible.

Sorry, you can't answer this particular CPF-related question accurately without an "if" clause. Often (i.e. in "FRS+" scenarios) SA top ups slightly increase age 55+ CPF liquidity. But sometimes (in many "sub-FRS" scenarios) SA top ups (and interest on those top ups) are NOT effectively liquid from age 55+. That's just how it is. Go complain to the CPF Board (or your MP?) if you don't like it. Make the best decisions you can, and ask the CPF Board (or consult their publications) if you're still confused. I don't think it's that confusing or hard to decide, but you're free to disagree.

 

[henrylbh]

ok so basically it's not wrong to say that technically the amount topped up to SA which is technically locked away, can be withdrawn because money is fungible. hence it's the $ from other portions that gets to be withdrawn?

At 55, all top ups follow by CPF from working contributions and VC will form FRS and such top-ups and future top-ups cannot be withdrawn. Any amount above FRS can be withdrawn or will flow into OA. Even with property charge, only amount above BRS less top ups can be withdrawn.

 

[reddevil0728]

At 55, all top ups follow by CPF from working contributions will form FRS and such top-ups and future top-ups cannot be withdrawn. Any amount above FRS can be withdrawn or will flow into OA. Even with property charge, only amount above BRS less top ups can be withdrawn.

Actually what I’m confused is under what scenarios would topped up amount be withdrawable which resulted in a need to say it’s locked?

 

[BBCWatcher]

Actually what I’m confused is under what scenarios would topped up amount be withdrawable which resulted in a need to say it’s locked?

"Sub-FRS" scenarios.

I'm puzzled why you're still confused about this. I'll try yet again: if you meet and keep at least the Full Retirement Sum when the time comes, the composition of your Retirement Account (which dollars came from compulsory contributions, which were voluntary) has no impact on your age 55+ CPF liquidity except that you'll have a bit more liquidity (more interest earned earlier). The CPF Board stops funding your Retirement Account at the Full Retirement Sum, and all SA and OA dollars above that land in your OA to do with as you please from age 55. More voluntary dollars in your RA mean fewer compulsory dollars are placed in your RA. Again, this is if you meet and keep at least the FRS.

If you DON'T meet and keep the Full Retirement Sum, then the composition of your Retirement Account might matter, at the margins, in terms of your lump sum CPF withdrawal options.

 

[reddevil0728]

"Sub-FRS" scenarios.

I'm puzzled why you're still confused about this.

Because thats the problem when you don’t realise that not everybody might know as much as you and then you give all sorts of context at one go, without taking into consideration that not everybody have the information you have to join the dots.

I'll try yet again: if you meet and keep at least the Full Retirement Sum when the time comes, the composition of your Retirement Account (which dollars came from compulsory contributions, which were voluntary) has no impact on your age 55+ CPF liquidity except that you'll have a bit more liquidity (more interest earned earlier). The CPF Board stops funding your Retirement Account at the Full Retirement Sum, and all SA and OA dollars above that land in your OA to do with as you please from age 55. More voluntary dollars in your RA mean fewer compulsory dollars are placed in your RA. Again, this is if you meet and keep at least the FRS.

What’s compulsory dollars n what’s voluntary?

If you DON'T meet and keep the Full Retirement Sum, then the composition of your Retirement Account might matter, at the margins, in terms of your lump sum CPF withdrawal options.

 

[BBCWatcher]

What’s compulsory dollars n what’s voluntary?

For these purposes at least compulsory dollars are those dollars that you (and your employer) are required to put into SA and OA as part of employment income. Voluntary dollars are cash deposits and OA transfers into SA.

On your 55th birthday the CPF Board tries to fund your Retirement Account to the Full Retirement Sum. It functionally starts with voluntary SA dollars (and interest on those dollars), then compulsory SA dollars, and lastly OA dollars. Once the CPF Board reaches the Full Retirement Sum, it stops. If for example you have $50,000 more in voluntary SA dollars then you need $50,000 less in compulsory dollars to meet the FRS — and more compulsory dollars end up in your OA, liquid from age 55. The sources of RA dollars simply don’t matter if you meet and keep at least the FRS. The voluntary and compulsory dollars are fungible in these “FRS+” scenarios. I’m agreeing with you, in these scenarios. You evidently understand correctly, in these scenarios.

Sub-FRS scenarios, no. Your $8,000 SA top up could be effectively liquidity constrained after your 55th birthday, at the outer margins, if you either don’t meet or don’t keep at least the Full Retirement Sum. You and/or your CPF nominees will still receive your top up back, just not as a lump sum.

I suppose there are some weird edge cases involving voluntary SA dollars that exceed the FRS. That’s the “deposit the Full Retirement Sum into a newborn’s SA“ scenario for example. Let’s ignore those.

 

[henrylbh]

Actually what I’m confused is under what scenarios would topped up amount be withdrawable which resulted in a need to say it’s locked?

Example 2025 FRS and BRS is 213k and 106.5k respectively. At 55 you have say 220k comprising 200k from contributions and 20k from top-ups. CPF will move 20k from top-ups and 193k from contributions form FRS and the balance 7k is withdrawable or moved to OA. If you pledged your property, you can only withdraw 106.5k less 20k top-ups. Say next year 2026 you top up 8k to RA to enjoy tax relief , the top-up of 8k is locked and you are entitled to tax relief of 7.4k as FRS increased from 213k to 220.4k. Note you may not even get tax relief for top-up in 2026 as the RA in 2025 with interest would be more than FRS in 2026

 

[BBCWatcher]

Note you may not even get tax relief for top-up in 2026 as the RA in 2025 with interest would be more than FRS in 2026

RA interest is not counted in determining whether you get tax relief for an RA top up.

 

[henrylbh]

RA interest is not counted in determining whether you get tax relief for an RA top up.

An oversight on my part. You are right that interest earned is not taken into account in determining FRS for topping up for tax relief.

 

[dork32]

Take FRS = 200k, and all oa is used for property
Case 1
Man work till 55. he has 200k in sa. He can withdraw 0.

Case 2
Man work till 55, he top up 50k into sa to siam tax along the way. he has 230k in sa and 25k in oa due to overflow. He can withdraw 55k. SO he can withdraw the amount he topped up

So it is not exactly correct to say that amount topped into sa cannot be withdrawn.

If you are able to make frs by 55, you can actually withdraw the amount "topped up"

if you compare at 55, definitely topping up is better than not topping up.

if you try to preach to a 25 year old fresh grad and tell him about what happens at 55,............

 

[reddevil0728]

Take FRS = 200k, and all oa is used for property
Case 1
Man work till 55. he has 200k in sa. He can withdraw 0.

Case 2
Man work till 55, he top up 50k into sa to siam tax along the way. he has 230k in sa and 25k in oa due to overflow. He can withdraw 55k. SO he can withdraw the amount he topped up

So it is not exactly correct to say that amount topped into sa cannot be withdrawn.

If you are able to make frs by 55, you can actually withdraw the amount "topped up"

if you compare at 55, definitely topping up is better than not topping up.

if you try to preach to a 25 year old fresh grad and tell him about what happens at 55,............

so essentially the amount topped up takes precedence for the FRS to put it simply, thus freeing up other amounts to be withdrawn.

so technically topped up amount can't be withdrawn, but in practice it can?

 

[BBCWatcher]

so essentially the amount topped up takes precedence for the FRS to put it simply, thus freeing up other amounts to be withdrawn.
so technically topped up amount can't be withdrawn, but in practice it can?

If you meet and keep at least the Full Retirement Sum, yes.

 

[reddevil0728]

If you meet and keep at least the Full Retirement Sum, yes.

This reply of yours is like perfect.

short and sweet to the point.

 

[BBCWatcher]

OK, now let's suppose you're considering a $8,000 cash top up to your Special Account. Obviously you cannot withdraw this $8,000 as a lump sum before age 55. The liquidity constraint before age 55 is obvious.

From age 55 onward there will only be a relevant liquidity constraint on this money if all these conditions hold:

• You genuinely need the cash;
• You have not reached the Full Retirement Sum, or you withdraw from RA to dip below the FRS;
• You have exhausted all CPF and non-CPF sources of liquid cash that cost the same or less;
• If you do not deposit this $8,000 into SA (less the tax relief, since you get that back as cash), this money would still be available as liquid cash. In other words, you do not use this $8,000 to buy more tobacco or meme coins (as examples). And a court, divorce, or thief does not seize it.

(Footnote: ) There are some potential nuances and edge cases. For example, if you cease being a Singaporean citizen or Singapore Permanent Resident then you get all your CPF savings as liquid cash, including previous top ups.