CPF Account Value Thread 2025

BBCWatcher

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
24,481
Reaction score
5,535
From what I know even if you have FRS, your property, with CPF used and accrued interest, is charged until sold. Of course, there is no need to refund the CPF and accrued interest on sale as FRS has been met when the lawyer seek clearance from CPFB.
Yes, if you’re age 55+ and have met at least the Full Retirement Sum, any outstanding property charge is only an opportunity (not an obligation) to deposit funds into (liquid) OA. Maybe a better way to describe that situation is that your property charge shifts from an obligation to a choice.

Having the property charge in place also means you have the option to make a lump sum withdrawal from your RA of as much as your age 55 Basic Retirement Sum (BRS). If you exercise that option, RA repayment (or another sufficient pledge/charge) is obligatory when you sell the home.
 
Last edited:

royalmix

Master Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
4,221
Reaction score
1,241
Seemed like what I read most will be doing FRS and some ERS but seldom I know anyone doing BRS. I thought if we can generate returns greater than 4% and want to pass as much to our kids, this seemed to be a no brainer? What is your considerations when you chose FRS over BRS? A more fuss-free retirement with monthly income guaranteed, perhaps?
Maybe you are new to CPF topics here, cos for donkey years, this had been a hot topic in hardwarezone!

Just google hardwarezone, you should be able to find old threads discussing BRS, property pledge, hacks, tips and tricks, detailed analysis on CPF Life, etc.
 

RedsYWNA

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2015
Messages
2,186
Reaction score
602
Yes, if you’re age 55+ and have met at least the Full Retirement Sum, any outstanding property charge is only an opportunity (not an obligation) to deposit funds into (liquid) OA. Maybe a better way to describe that situation is that your property charge shifts from an obligation to a choice.
Hi BBCWatcher, just for my understanding, if the O/S property charge is in place,

does that mean that come age 55+, we can channel any excess cash back to CPF OA (up to the amount of CPF OA used for housing) and treat it as an interest bearing 2.5% current account? Sounds gd!
 

DevilPlate

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Messages
12,252
Reaction score
5,165
Maybe you are new to CPF topics here, cos for donkey years, this had been a hot topic in hardwarezone!

Just google hardwarezone, you should be able to find old threads discussing BRS, property pledge, hacks, tips and tricks, detailed analysis on CPF Life, etc.
I tot u gona copy and paste ChatGPT stuff
Times has changed liao :s13:
 

DevilPlate

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Messages
12,252
Reaction score
5,165
Hi BBCWatcher, just for my understanding, if the O/S property charge is in place,

does that mean that come age 55+, we can channel any excess cash back to CPF OA (up to the amount of CPF OA used for housing) and treat it as an interest bearing 2.5% current account? Sounds gd!
Until they tweak the policy again like what they did to SA lor

Also it sounds good only when banks ir is below 2.5%
 

DevilPlate

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Messages
12,252
Reaction score
5,165
I think the key thing is some people kinda try to value CPFLife as an investment.
 

royalmix

Master Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
4,221
Reaction score
1,241
I think the key thing is some people kinda try to value CPFLife as an investment.
Ok, I ask Chatgpt for you, from an "unbiased perspective - AI":

(do your own fact check)

Ah, yes, that's a great point! A lot of people do view CPF LIFE as a sort of long-term investment, which plays into the decision between BRS and FRS.


When people think of CPF LIFE as an investment, they’re often weighing the trade-off between how much they set aside now and what they'll receive in retirement. This can impact their choice of whether to aim for BRS or FRS.


Here are some ways people value CPF LIFE like an investment:


1. Annuity Payouts as a "Guaranteed" Return


  • When you set aside the FRS, it guarantees you a higher monthly payout through CPF LIFE compared to the BRS.
  • Essentially, people think of the FRS as a larger, “safer” investment in terms of monthly retirement income. The CPF LIFE payouts are seen as a form of insurance—providing income for life, regardless of how long you live, which is a big draw for many people.
  • This "investment" perspective comes into play because the larger amount you set aside (i.e., the FRS), the more income you’re likely to receive over time. It’s especially appealing to people who want a secure, predictable stream of income in retirement.

2. CPF LIFE as an Investment in Longevity


  • People with FRS set aside get larger CPF LIFE payouts, which means they could benefit from higher returns if they live longer than expected. In other words, it’s a bit like “betting” that they’ll live longer than average, and in that case, setting aside the FRS gives them a higher return on that investment.
  • If someone expects to live into their 80s or beyond, they might see CPF LIFE as a more favorable option, since they'll get back more over the long run due to the larger monthly payouts.
  • Conversely, setting aside just the BRS could be seen as a “lower risk” approach if they’re not sure about their lifespan, since they’ll have access to more of their CPF funds earlier while still getting a basic level of monthly income.

3. Balancing Between Immediate Access and Long-Term Security


  • BRS gives people more immediate flexibility because it locks away less money. For people who are thinking of CPF LIFE as an investment, the downside is that the payouts will be smaller. But for those who may need more liquidity in the short-term or have other financial goals (like housing or healthcare), they might see more immediate value in having extra CPF funds available.
  • People who choose FRS, on the other hand, might view it as a long-term investment in their retirement security. They could accept a lower level of immediate access to funds in exchange for higher monthly payouts when they retire. It’s an investment in a secure, guaranteed income stream.

4. Understanding the “Return on Investment” for CPF LIFE


  • The returns people get from CPF LIFE are largely linked to how much they contribute. The FRS provides a higher return, but people often need to calculate how much they’ll actually receive relative to how much they contribute.
  • Some people analyze the returns on CPF LIFE by comparing the amount they set aside to the expected payouts over time. The FRS (while higher) may offer a better return in the long run, particularly if they live longer than expected.
  • But for others, especially if they have health concerns or are unsure about their life expectancy, the BRS offers a safer, more flexible choice, even if it means smaller payouts.

5. CPF LIFE’s Investment Value for Different Life Stages


  • For younger people or those who don’t foresee needing substantial funds immediately, setting aside the FRS might make sense, because it means more security in the future.
  • For those who are older or nearing retirement and have limited CPF balances, BRS may seem like a more reasonable option because it provides them with immediate access to more funds, allowing them to meet more immediate financial needs.

6. Psychological Factor: Perceived Value of "Owning" More CPF Funds


  • Some people might view BRS as the "minimum" they should set aside in order to preserve their retirement security without locking away too much capital that they can't access later.
  • Meanwhile, others might prioritize having FRS as a way of having more guaranteed retirement payouts, even if it means sacrificing short-term flexibility. They think of this as a way to "invest" in their future self, who will benefit from the higher CPF LIFE payouts.

7. The Role of Investment and Personal Wealth Outside of CPF


  • Many individuals also look at their CPF in the broader context of their personal wealth, including any investments they make outside of CPF. For example, if someone has external investments (stocks, real estate, etc.), they may not feel the need to set aside the FRS in CPF and might opt for BRS, planning to rely on other sources of retirement income.
  • For others with less outside wealth or who are risk-averse, they may prefer to "max out" the FRS because they perceive it as a safer investment for their future.



In the end, the decision to choose BRS over FRS does often come down to how a person views CPF LIFE—whether as an essential source of guaranteed retirement income (which would make the FRS more appealing), or as something more flexible that can be balanced with other financial goals (which might make the BRS more attractive).


It’s interesting how some people almost think of CPF LIFE as a form of retirement “planning” rather than just a mandatory account setup. Would you agree with this? Or do you see it more as a necessity for securing financial stability in old age?
 

kelhot2001

Supremacy Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2004
Messages
5,738
Reaction score
2,314
From what I understand, at age 55 or thereafter you can withdraw CPF amount above BRS + top-up, if any, with sufficient property charge/pledge. If you decide to withdraw amount above BRS+top-up in later years with property charge/pledge, the amount of withdrawal is still based on the amount when you were age 55.

If you do full VHR, the amount will go to your OA only as you have opted for BRS with property charge and OA is withdrawable any time, unless you choose to transfer the amount to make good RA what you have withdrawn plus accrued interest or top up RA above FRS.

Then if you sell your property, you will have to make good RA with the amount withdrawn plus accrued interest.

If you are using CPF to pay in full or part for the property, the charge on your property will always be there, even if you are above 55 with FRS, until you refund all CPF used to purchase or charge the property. Up to this stage there is no lawyer fee involved in charging. But if you refund all CPF, the charge will be discharged. Subsequent pledging will incur legal charges.

In my case, my property is fully paid by cash at time of purchase and hence there was a never a charge on my property. So if i wish to pledge my property for BRS, there will be valuation and legal fee involved.

Havent been reading CPF changes for almost 2 years. Since the SA closure what are the major changes.

Do you mean that at 55, we need to decide whether BRS or FRS? I thought we only need to decide at 65?

Seem like the the goalpost had been made smaller
 

royalmix

Master Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
4,221
Reaction score
1,241
Havent been reading CPF changes for almost 2 years. Since the SA closure what are the major changes.

Do you mean that at 55, we need to decide whether BRS or FRS? I thought we only need to decide at 65?

Seem like the the goalpost had been made smaller
Henry did not say must!

The rules have not changed, so long you have sufficient funds in your RA, you can pledge qualified property to withdraw down to BRS (+ subject to other rules). It is very much dependent on your funds in RA after 55, no age limit.

Read the rules here https://www.cpf.gov.sg/service/arti...-retirement-account-savings-using-my-property
 

henrylbh

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2004
Messages
16,161
Reaction score
864
Yes, you can lift the property pledge by funding your RA at least to the Full Retirement Sum.

Yes, if you’re age 55+ and have met at least the Full Retirement Sum, any outstanding property charge is only an opportunity (not an obligation) to deposit funds into (liquid) OA. Maybe a better way to describe that situation is that your property charge shifts from an obligation to a choice.

Having the property charge in place also means you have the option to make a lump sum withdrawal from your RA of as much as your age 55 Basic Retirement Sum (BRS). If you exercise that option, RA repayment (or another sufficient pledge/charge) is obligatory when you sell the home.
This mumbo jumbo does not clearly support what you said earlier that you can lift the property pledge ....

The property charge for those above 55 with FRS as it stands is not an opportunity as you like to think. It will be there until you sell the property and there is no option or choice for you to refund OA when you already have FRS at age 55. The lawyer handling the case will release the proceeds without any refund to CPF ...... unless .... :D
 

BBCWatcher

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
24,481
Reaction score
5,535
Hi BBCWatcher, just for my understanding, if the O/S property charge is in place,
does that mean that come age 55+, we can channel any excess cash back to CPF OA (up to the amount of CPF OA used for housing) and treat it as an interest bearing 2.5% current account? Sounds gd!
Once you've set aside at least the Full Retirement Sum (or at least the Basic Retirement Sum with property pledge/charge) in your CPF Retirement Account your Ordinary Account is fully liquid. Yes, it's not unlike a 2.5% interest earning savings account at that point.

But you don't have to wait until age 55 if you think a 2.5% interesting earning "savings account" is attractive. Many people buy 3 year endowment plans, for example. You might decide when you're age 52 (for example) that liquidity from age 55 is good enough liquidity.
Until they tweak the policy again like what they did to SA lor
There's government policy risk with everything. CPF is not unique in that way. Hypothetically we could all wake up to the news tomorrow morning that ordinary bank interest is subject to a 20% tax.
Also it sounds good only when banks ir is below 2.5%
It also depends on how much you value the asset protection characteristics of CPF savings. Bank deposits are not similarly protected.
I think the key thing is some people kinda try to value CPFLife as an investment.
And they shouldn't. CPF LIFE is insurance, specifically longevity insurance. It should be evaluated as what it is and compared to other longevity insurance policies.
Havent been reading CPF changes for almost 2 years. Since the SA closure what are the major changes.
CPF Special Accounts were closed for members age 55+ on January 19, 2025. That was only earlier this year, so there hasn't been much time for other CPF changes.
Do you mean that at 55, we need to decide whether BRS or FRS? I thought we only need to decide at 65?
You do not have to make that decision at age 55 or at age 65. You don't even need to make that decision at all; you can leave the CPF Board's default RA funding level intact if you wish. You can also change your mind to some extent. As one of many examples, you could withdraw an amount equivalent to the Basic Retirement Sum from your Retirement Account at age 55 then later deposit an amount equivalent to the Basic Retirement Sum+38% back into your RA.
 

BBCWatcher

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
24,481
Reaction score
5,535
The property charge for those above 55 with FRS as it stands is not an opportunity as you like to think. It will be there until you sell the property and there is no option or choice for you to refund OA when you already have FRS at age 55.
That's not correct. You can refund OA used for housing (plus accrued interest) even after age 55, even if your RA is already funded to the Full Retirement Sum. You can check your refund amount online if you'd like to exercise that option. Partial housing refunds reduce the property charge. Full housing refunds (including accrued interest) end the property charge.
The lawyer handling the case will release the proceeds without any refund to CPF ...... unless .... :D
OA is liquid from age 55+ once you've funded your RA to the Full Retirement Sum.
 

royalmix

Master Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
4,221
Reaction score
1,241
Always do your own fact check by reading the rules at CPFB website and if you dun understand, you can post your questions here together with the CPFB rules or ask CPFB!

There is a whole section on Voluntary Housing Refund and implications.

For eg

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/service/arti...-after-making-a-full-voluntary-housing-refund

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/service/arti...-brs-in-cash-after-discharging-the-cpf-charge

Pls correct/amend your mistakes/errors/misinformation in your posts too to avoid misleading others!
 
Last edited:

henrylbh

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2004
Messages
16,161
Reaction score
864
That's not correct. You can refund OA used for housing (plus accrued interest) even after age 55, even if your RA is already funded to the Full Retirement Sum. You can check your refund amount online if you'd like to exercise that option. Partial housing refunds reduce the property charge. Full housing refunds (including accrued interest) end the property charge.

OA is liquid from age 55+ once you've funded your RA to the Full Retirement Sum.
Sorry you fail to understand what I said as well as you what you said. You said Yes, you can lift the property pledge by funding your RA at least to the Full Retirement Sum. Period

Then you went on to say one has opportunity (not obligation) which further cloud the issue.
 

kelhot2001

Supremacy Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2004
Messages
5,738
Reaction score
2,314
Once you've set aside at least the Full Retirement Sum (or at least the Basic Retirement Sum with property pledge/charge) in your CPF Retirement Account your Ordinary Account is fully liquid. Yes, it's not unlike a 2.5% interest earning savings account at that point.

But you don't have to wait until age 55 if you think a 2.5% interesting earning "savings account" is attractive. Many people buy 3 year endowment plans, for example. You might decide when you're age 52 (for example) that liquidity from age 55 is good enough liquidity.

There's government policy risk with everything. CPF is not unique in that way. Hypothetically we could all wake up to the news tomorrow morning that ordinary bank interest is subject to a 20% tax.

It also depends on how much you value the asset protection characteristics of CPF savings. Bank deposits are not similarly protected.

And they shouldn't. CPF LIFE is insurance, specifically longevity insurance. It should be evaluated as what it is and compared to other longevity insurance policies.

CPF Special Accounts were closed for members age 55+ on January 19, 2025. That was only earlier this year, so there hasn't been much time for other CPF changes.

You do not have to make that decision at age 55 or at age 65. You don't even need to make that decision at all; you can leave the CPF Board's default RA funding level intact if you wish. You can also change your mind to some extent. As one of many examples, you could withdraw an amount equivalent to the Basic Retirement Sum from your Retirement Account at age 55 then later deposit an amount equivalent to the Basic Retirement Sum+38% back into your RA.

I lazy to cpf and read, so entertain me

So assuming at age 55 today with Full FRS of $213k, I do not going touch it till say age 65 (10yrs later, ok can be 15yrs later, but let stick with 10yrs).

My balloon sum will be ard $348K using only 213k FRS

Questions

1) As FRS increase every year, will my FRS be locked at $213K

2) So if FRS increases
and I am still contributing CPF for the next 10 yrs, will this contribution go into RA and OA as usual or all will goes to OA

3) At 65, can I still option for BRS based on 348K or the full amount of RA (assuming the frs increase and I still contribute into the RA)
 

henrylbh

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2004
Messages
16,161
Reaction score
864

BBCWatcher

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
24,481
Reaction score
5,535
1) As FRS increase every year, will my FRS be locked at $213K
It depends on the context. To determine whether your OA is liquid, yes. In your scenario you've funded your RA at age 55 to your age 55 FRS, so any/all dollars in OA are liquid. (Also read on about CPF contributions.) For tax relief purposes, not necessarily. The FRS is typically raised every January 1. If your RA (measured based on principal only) is below the new FRS, you have a potential tax relief opportunity if you wish to top up RA.
2) So if FRS increases
and I am still contributing CPF for the next 10 yrs, will this contribution go into RA and OA as usual or all will goes to OA
OA. (And the MA portion still flows into MA if your MA is below the Basic Healthcare Sum.)
3) At 65, can I still option for BRS based on 348K or the full amount of RA (assuming the frs increase and I still contribute into the RA)
If you have a property pledge or charge you can withdraw up to an amount equivalent to your age 55 Basic Retirement Sum from your RA. In other words, interest stays in RA.

A lump sum RA withdrawal isn't required at all, isn't required specifically at age 65, and isn't required specifically in the maximum amount possible. Obviously RA withdrawals will reduce your retirement income from CPF LIFE.
 
Last edited:

royalmix

Master Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
4,221
Reaction score
1,241
I lazy to cpf and read, so entertain me

So assuming at age 55 today with Full FRS of $213k, I do not going touch it till say age 65 (10yrs later, ok can be 15yrs later, but let stick with 10yrs).

My balloon sum will be ard $348K using only 213k FRS

Questions

1) As FRS increase every year, will my FRS be locked at $213K

2) So if FRS increases
and I am still contributing CPF for the next 10 yrs, will this contribution go into RA and OA as usual or all will goes to OA

3) At 65, can I still option for BRS based on 348K or the full amount of RA (assuming the frs increase and I still contribute into the RA)
You should add more assumptions into your scenario eg.

If you join CPF Life Standard/Escalating Plan at 65, what happens if you do item 3 there after?
 

royalmix

Master Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
4,221
Reaction score
1,241
From CPF website:

How do I discharge my CPF charge after making a full voluntary housing refund?

If you are not selling your property, there is no need to discharge the CPF charge. If you do sell the property in the future, your lawyers will complete the discharge of CPF charge as part of the sale transaction.

However, if you would still like to discharge the CPF charge, please engage a lawyer to assist you with the discharge process. The lawyer will assist you with the legal documents required by Singapore Land Authority (SLA) and any conveyancing matters involved in the discharge process. Please note that legal costs will be incurred in this process, and you will need to use cash to pay the legal costs.

After the CPF charge is discharged, no further CPF savings can be used for the property. If you are above 55, the property cannot be pledged for the withdrawal of your Retirement Account savings above the Basic Retirement Sum. If you wish to do so, a new CPF charge is required, and legal costs will be incurred in the creation and lodgement of the new CPF charge.
 
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ Forums. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts. Please refer to our Community Guidelines and Standards and Terms and Conditions for more information.
Top