CPF Account Value Thread 2025

[DevilPlate]

If you intend to keep dollars in OA for some reasonable period of time, and there's no better way to get dollars into CPF (such as a VC3A which in many cases would land in OA), sure, great, repay some OA dollars used for housing and enjoy your 2.5% interest earning account. That makes sense as long as 2.5% OA does.

But that's not the predicate. Koolkool's idea was/is to repay OA dollars used for housing then quickly withdraw some (or previously all) for investment elsewhere. Depositing dollars in OA only to take them out quickly makes no sense at all. That would just reduce how many dollars you can deposit in OA in the future. Why would you ever reduce your future options with no upside and no reward? It's illogical.

Oh thats very strange
Just use unrestricted cash to invest rightaway!

 

[hwmook]

I believe he js wana earn that 2.5% OA interest now and withdraw as he please.

He mentioned he want to put money back in OA using housing refund then withdraw it so that he got no housing refund tagged to his account anymore. That is the weird part and he mentioned accrued interest as a reason so that he doesn't have to pay the accrued interest which he doesn't need to.

 

[8zaoyu]

Please also note that CPF members age 55+ have at least four ways to save more in CPF:

1. You can top up your Retirement Account. Cash top ups may qualify for tax relief or matching dollars (the MRSS). The only limit is the Enhanced Retirement Sum. If you've previously met the ERS, every time the ERS is raised there's more room for another top up. RA earns 4.0+% interest, some lump sum withdrawals (of principal) are possible, and the rest feeds into lifetime retirement income (CPF LIFE).
2. You can make a Voluntary Contribution to your MediSave Account. Your VC to MA may qualify for tax relief. The only limit is the Basic Healthcare Sum. Your BHS is fixed for life on your 65th birthday. Every time there's a deduction from your MA there's room for a VC. MA earns 4.0+% interest. If your MA is at the BHS on December 31, MA interest for the year will be paid into your OA. Although CPF isn't a good bequest vehicle, if you're trying to bludgeon CPF into conveying a bequest (to your CPF nominees), MA works best for those purposes.
3. You can make an "all 3 account" Voluntary Contribution ("VC3A"). A VC3A may qualify for tax relief if you're self-employed. VC3As and compulsory contributions (combined) are limited to $37,740 per year (the CPF Annual Limit). Your VC3A will be apportioned to your CPF accounts according to the allocation percentages for your age bracket but subject to RA and MA limits. If you've met the FRS (or BRS with property pledge/charge) in your RA and the BHS in your MA, your entire VC3A will land in your OA.
4. ....And then there's repaying OA used for housing. OA repayment is often the least attractive way to increase your CPF savings because the interest rate is the lowest (2.5%) and the amount you can repay effectively has a finite, lifetime limit — in contrast to VC3As, for example, which are subject to a limit that resets every year.

Consider the first 3 ways to inject funds into CPF before you consider exercising the 4th option (OA repayment).

All above if you are PMET, not the GRAB or other self-employed living from paycheck to paycheck. If number 2, go to hospital, will go see Medical Social Worker to subsidize Full Hospital bill as no money to top up Medisave
BBC, you are assuming the HWZoners here are currently tax payers, which I doubt, most are BBFAs, even > 55/60/65 yo ex-high earners now about to reach draw-down payouts stage.
I did hear some property pledgers, actually just pay back accrued interests to unpledge if regret?

 

[8zaoyu]

False.

BBC - do no confuse what is PLEDGE property and a deceased person's HDB property under whatever Tenancy.
Our very old lease HDB properties got many ripe old age elderlies who never PLEDGE their property to get CPF money ok.
We do know who sold or not selling their old property. These elderlies who died HAD families, not like modern day Singapore women who will not marry anyone with lesser education than them.

 

[BBCWatcher]

All above if you are PMET, not the GRAB or other self-employed living from paycheck to paycheck.

OK, but you're in the Money Mind forum where many financial topics are discussed. There are even HNW and UHNW individuals participating in this forum — or at least they claim to be. And other posters aspire to be HNW or UHNW. Of course you don't have to be HNW or UHNW to be able to (and be interested in) saving at least $1 more in CPF.

BBC - do no confuse what is PLEDGE property and a deceased person's HDB property under whatever Tenancy....

Where are you finding (on the CPF Board's Web site, highly preferably) that a CPF member's property pledge survives the member's death?

Yes, if the pledged property has co-owners then all owners must agree to the pledge. That's because the pledge could affect the co-owner's(s') share(s) of the sales proceeds if the property is sold during the pledging CPF member's lifetime. However, the requirement to obtain agreement from all owners does NOT mean that the pledge outlives the pledging CPF member.

 

[mizarahi]

Dear CPF gurus. Wanna check whether my calc is correct.
If I topup $44k into my RA on 55yo. I can withdraw $64k at at 65 and still enjoy almost the same CPFL monthly payout?

 

[mizarahi]

CPFL is a done deal for now. Dont think it is nec to debate over RSS, SA Shielding and what not.

The decision making for me is whether BRS, FRS or ERS.
I am trying to work out the returns from CPFL and investment return of 3% for the balance money.
Sensitivity analyse between the 3 if I pass away at age 75, 80, 85, 90, 95 and 100. (donno LLM can help) and no beneficiary (should be standard plan)

 

[BBCWatcher]

Dear CPF gurus. Wanna check whether my calc is correct.
If I topup $44k into my RA on 55yo. I can withdraw $64k at at 65 and still enjoy almost the same CPFL monthly payout?

That's roughly correct. $44,000 grows to a little over $65,100 after 10 years at 4.0% p.a. interest (compounded annually). The interest is computed monthly and credited annually. Yes, if you deposit a particular amount, let it grow for 10 years, then withdraw an amount equivalent to the initial incremental deposit plus accrued interest on that deposit, you'll end up with the same remaining amount in your account as if you didn't deposit anything.

....But the wise and clever CPF members wait to age 70 to start CPF LIFE payouts. $44,000 deposited within your 55th birthday month grows to a little over $79,200 after 15 years.

Of course you might need to make a property pledge (or have a sufficient property charge) to withdraw these amounts from your RA. Technically you'd be withdrawing ~$65K/~$79K of principal and no interest. But since both of these figures are below the 2025 Basic Retirement Sum, it can be done if you wish and assuming the future rules are the same or similar enough. I say "might" because it looks like you might've double counted your age 55+ withdrawal options.

I'm not sure why you'd do this instead of just letting your deposit boost your lifetime retirement income. The way I often describe this general scenario is that topping up your RA makes a future lump sum withdrawal more tolerable if there's some urgent reason why you need a future lump sum withdrawal. (For example, dropping $1,500/month down to $1,200/month hurts but hurts less than dropping $1,200/month to $900/month.) But you wouldn't actually make any withdrawals unless you really need them.

 

[0218crawford]

Dear CPF gurus. Wanna check whether my calc is correct.
If I topup $44k into my RA on 55yo. I can withdraw $64k at at 65 and still enjoy almost the same CPFL monthly payout?

moi tot top ups cannot be withdrawn?

 

[BBCWatcher]

moi tot top ups cannot be withdrawn?

Top ups (and accrued interest on those top ups) cannot themselves be withdrawn in lump sums. However, top ups don't reduce any preexisting lump sum withdrawal options.

 

[mizarahi]

Thanks BBCW for your clarification.
The 3 options (incl w/d @ 70) gives me flexibility based on my forecast when I will be dying.

 

[BBCWatcher]

The 3 options (incl w/d @ 70) gives me flexibility based on my forecast when I will be dying.

I suppose. But what about the flexibility to give away more (or all?) of your wealth while you’re still alive and competent to distribute it, when you can appreciate it (see the smiles, basically), and when the recipients get the most benefits? For example, when a grandchild wants to attend an expensive university, not when the grandchild is age 40 and regretting that she couldn’t afford to attend that university 2 decades earlier?

If you have enough high quality longevity insurance to cover at least your basic needs for the rest of your life, however long it lasts, your other wealth is surplus and can be put to immediate productive use.

 

[8zaoyu]

OK, but you're in the Money Mind forum where many financial topics are discussed. There are even HNW and UHNW individuals participating in this forum — or at least they claim to be. And other posters aspire to be HNW or UHNW. Of course you don't have to be HNW or UHNW to be able to (and be interested in) saving at least $1 more in CPF.

Where are you finding (on the CPF Board's Web site, highly preferably) that a CPF member's property pledge survives the member's death?

Yes, if the pledged property has co-owners then all owners must agree to the pledge. That's because the pledge could affect the co-owner's(s') share(s) of the sales proceeds if the property is sold during the pledging CPF member's lifetime. However, the requirement to obtain agreement from all owners does NOT mean that the pledge outlives the pledging CPF member.

pledged property had not needed the inheritees to agree IF already spouse already was dead and cannot take over HDB.
From experience of past deceased elderlies, there is a family member who will want to take over the flat when eligible. This person is buying over the flat with siblings's shares payable from total Estate. Whatever loan/pledge with accrued interests will be calculated first Before the Estate distribution.
Have you got elderlies with HDB who had died?

 

[henrylbh]

My plan now is to do FRS @ 55, and then do a VHR of all my outstanding housing loans. After which I will withdraw from my OA for other form of investments. At 65, I will then choose the basic plan for CPFL. I still have the flexibility to withdraw 20% of RA balance if needed. Hopefully I don't need to do that, and I think when I am 65, I should have stopped thinking about wealth accumulation and just enjoy my remaining life peacefully and let the investment run its course for my retirement.

You can do VHR anytime with your spare cash and the money returned will start earning 2.5% pa from the following month. If VHR does not clear outstanding CPF and accrued interest, the encumbrance on your property will not be discharged, even if you are above age 55 with FRS.

It doesn't make sense to do VHR with your spare cash and then withdraw from my OA for other form of investments. If there is any other form of investments better than CPF OA 2.5%, it would be a dumb to put spare cash into CPF whether by VHR or VC.

Besides cash, you should also use your CPF for other form of investments that beats CPF OA, but that comes with restrictions and risks.

 

[8zaoyu]

I suppose. But what about the flexibility to give away more (or all?) of your wealth while you’re still alive and competent to distribute it, when you can appreciate it (see the smiles, basically), and when the recipients get the most benefits? For example, when a grandchild wants to attend an expensive university, not when the grandchild is age 40 and regretting that she couldn’t afford to attend that university 2 decades earlier?

If you have enough high quality longevity insurance to cover at least your basic needs for the rest of your life, however long it lasts, your other wealth is surplus and can be put to immediate productive use.

BBFAs here over 45/50/55 here do not want to work for employers anymore, they could be ex-PMETs earning high pays, but if had multi-properties, will also sell to downgrade and do GRAB, PHV driving, etc. Where got use money to do charities, own self already money not enough?

 

[BBCWatcher]

pledged property had not needed the inheritees to agree IF already spouse already was dead and cannot take over HDB.

OK, so I assume there's one flat owner who dies, and he had a property pledge.

From experience of past deceased elderlies, there is and family member who will want to take over the flat when eligible.

OK, sure.

This person is buying over the flat with siblings's shares payable from total Estate. Whatever loan/pledge with accrued interests with be calculated first Before the Estate distribution.

That might've been past CPFB/HDB policy, but I don't see evidence it's current policy. The CPFB says the opposite (that death severs one's CPF repayment obligations), and I've linked to that information. If you've found another source of current information, please share it.

There have been a few relatively recent changes in how CPF savings are handled when someone dies. As an example, in the past if you transferred OA dollars to a family member, and that family member died, you would often get "your" OA dollars returned (to your OA). Nowadays your OA transfers to a family member are outright gifts, and it's up to the recipient to decide how any residual CPF savings are distributed upon his/her death (via his/her CPF nomination). If the nomination happens to be 100% to your sister, that's how it goes — she gets "your" OA dollars (as unrestricted cash). As another example, in the past it was possible for heirs to leave a deceased CPF member's savings "on account," accruing standard CPF interest indefinitely. That "loophole" ended a few years ago.

Are you thinking of valid liens against the flat — an outstanding (and uninsured) bank mortgage, as a notable example? Those issues would need to be settled.

 

[8zaoyu]

OK, so I assume there's one flat owner who dies, and he had a property pledge.

OK, sure.

That might've been past CPFB/HDB policy, but I don't see evidence it's current policy. The CPFB says the opposite (that death severs one's CPF repayment obligations), and I've linked to that information. If you've found another source of current information, please share it.

There have been a few relatively recent changes in how CPF savings are handled when someone dies. As an example, in the past if you transferred OA dollars to a family member, and that family member died, you would often get "your" OA dollars returned (to your OA). Nowadays your OA transfers to a family member are outright gifts, and it's up to the recipient to decide how any residual CPF savings are distributed upon his/her death (via his/her CPF nomination). If the nomination happens to be 100% to your sister, that's how it goes — she gets "your" OA dollars (as unrestricted cash). As another example, in the past it was possible for heirs to leave a deceased CPF member's savings "on account," accruing standard CPF interest indefinitely. That "loophole" ended a few years ago.

Are you thinking of valid liens against the flat — an outstanding (and uninsured) bank mortgage, as a notable example? Those issues would need to be settled.

my source of info, was that relative died at 72, The Home Protection Scheme was up till 65 and there was a bit of balance loan to be paid. Spouse not dead yet - hdb flat loan still have to pay - not free ok.

 

[8zaoyu]

Till kingdom comes.

Now CPF gets more tight and that has affected my retirement planning and projection adversely due to recent changes. The biggest injury is the cessation of paying interest accrued to the month preceding withdrawal and the closure of SA. Only good is the option to top-up RA 4x BRS especially for those under RSS. But that may not be attractive enough for those under CPFL as the bet gets bigger.

I see, will affect suka suka put in, take out months.
Two months no interests hor

 

[henrylbh]

my source of info, was that relative died at 72, The Home Protection Scheme was up till 65 and there was a bit of balance loan to be paid. Spouse not dead yet - hdb flat loan still have to pay - not free ok.

Of course if a flat owner died any outstanding loan must be settled by the deceased estate, if not covered by insurance or HPS. Note the deceased's CPF, if any, will go to his nominee/s or estate with no deduction for outstanding HDB loan or CPF instalments. Any outstanding CPF and accrued interest will cease to exist upon the owner's death.

 

[8zaoyu]

Of course if a flat owner died any outstanding loan must be settled by the deceased estate, if not covered by insurance or HPS. Note the deceased's CPF, if any, will go to his nominee/s or estate with no deduction for outstanding HDB loan or CPF instalments. Any outstanding CPF and accrued interest will cease to exist upon the owner's death.

Flat is Joint Tenancy - one dead one has yet to die.
So flat NOT in Estate yet, loan ( a little only lah), still have to pay HDB. Still got 10 or 20 more years IF he/she were to live 10/20 more years till 85 / 95. Pay with rental yield lo.