CPF Accounts Value thread

[Mecisteus]

CPF Top-up at 79 years old, an actual case

https://www.ifa.sg/cpf-top-79-years-old/

I thought I posted this link about CPF top-up. It is about the AMP thingy.

 

[maple96]

I thought I posted this link about CPF top-up. It is about the AMP thingy.

another "rubbish" FA, can only deduce from the actual outcome, dun even know or understand the CPF rules and how much RA can earn! Never even explain the CPF RA rules.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Under the Basic Plan, all monies in RA will earn 4+2%.

This sentence is really confusing in so many ways.

All payout plans benefit from the same underlying, attractive interest rates. Whether funds are accounted for in a Retirement Account, in the CPF LIFE pool, or some of both, they enjoy the same Special Singapore Government Security (SSGS) interest rates. Bonus interest is not paid on “all monies”; bonus interest is paid only on the first $30,000 (2%) and next $30,000 (1%) of eligible funds.

 

[maple96]

This sentence is really confusing in so many ways.

.

I repeat again, I posted this many times in the past, u dun understand everything about CPF and CPF Life, go back do your homework, go read the CPF website.

 

[starlight318]

This sentence is really confusing in so many ways.

All payout plans benefit from the same underlying, attractive interest rates. Whether funds are accounted for in a Retirement Account, in the CPF LIFE pool, or some of both, they enjoy the same Special Singapore Government Security (SSGS) interest rates. Bonus interest is not paid on “all monies”; bonus interest is paid only on the first $30,000 (2%) and next $30,000 (1%) of eligible funds.

Yes agree. Even CPF board also just says CPF OA funds earn up to 3.5% and SA up to 5% which I find very misleading.

Why can't they just say OA earning 2.5% and SA earning 4% interest + additional interest up to $600 each year (or $900 if above 55).

 

[alt2015]

Yes.

10char.

Any unused balance of the AMP money after one died, will be part of bequest?
If yes, then is very good. Like a deposit with 4% interest.

 

[dork32]

Yes agree. Even CPF board also just says CPF OA funds earn up to 3.5% and SA up to 5% which I find very misleading.

Why can't they just say OA earning 2.5% and SA earning 4% interest + additional interest up to $600 each year (or $900 if above 55).

this formula was developed by yywin. he is correct.

 

[maple96]

"rubbish" creates more "rubbish"

Under the Basic Plan, all monies in RA will earn 4+2%. It will always earn the extra 2% so long your combined balances (CPF Life premium + OA/SA/MA/RA) are not zero. If this is true, there will definitely be some bequest.

Since RA earns 4+2% interest, any topup after payout start will stream out as AMP if u did not opt for additional CPF Life cover.

With AMP, one day your RA might be zero ( if your combined balances = zero), of course bequest will be zero then.

This sentence is really confusing in so many ways.

All payout plans benefit from the same underlying, attractive interest rates. Whether funds are accounted for in a Retirement Account, in the CPF LIFE pool, or some of both, they enjoy the same Special Singapore Government Security (SSGS) interest rates. Bonus interest is not paid on “all monies”; bonus interest is paid only on the first $30,000 (2%) and next $30,000 (1%) of eligible funds.

OMG, u seriously have comprehension problem, cannot understand simple Singaporean English! Choose to read part of the para and end up misinterpreting and accusing others of writing misleading info!

Simple english explanation of the extra 2% u choose to ignore, only people who dun understand how CPF pays interest will do that! OMG

 

[maple96]

This sentence is really confusing in so many ways.

All payout plans benefit from the same underlying, attractive interest rates. Whether funds are accounted for in a Retirement Account, in the CPF LIFE pool, or some of both, they enjoy the same Special Singapore Government Security (SSGS) interest rates. Bonus interest is not paid on “all monies”; bonus interest is paid only on the first $30,000 (2%) and next $30,000 (1%) of eligible funds.

Ok for your benefit, let me further simplify the explanation, since u dun understand the complicated version which I have been using in all CPF Life related thread discussions with no complains from u in the past

Under the Basic Plan, after payout starts, RA monies will still earn 4% pa interest. An extra 2% interest will be paid on the first 30k of combined balances (CPF life premium/RA/MA/OA/SA) and another extra 1% will be paid on the next 30k of combined balances (as explained earlier) = ie up to a maximum of $900 pa will be paid into RA.

This extra interest of up to $900 will not be paid to your RA if u choose Standard or Escalating Plan!

 

[BBCWatcher]

This extra interest of up to $900 will not be paid to your RA if u choose Standard or Escalating Plan!

Yes, and you're trying to be misleading in that language.

Whether any bonus interest is paid to the Retirement Account, to the CPF LIFE pool, or to some of both, it's paid regardless. All Special Singapore Government Securities (SSGS) earn the same interest rates, including eligible bonus interest, whether individually accounted in your RA and/or in your claim share to the CPF LIFE pool. You can decide which payout plan you prefer, as all CPF LIFE members can, but nobody is losing any bonus interest.

Don't believe me? OK, then you don't believe CPF either. Here's what CPF wrote in InTouch Magazine (February, 2015):

"Monies in your Retirement Account and the CPF LIFE pool currently earn a guaranteed interest rate of up to 5% per year, including an additional 1% interest per year paid on the first $60,000 of your combined balances (with up to $20,000 from your Ordinary Account)." (Emphasis mine. February, 2015, was before the introduction of the additional 1% bonus interest on the first $30,000.)

Here's another example from CPF:

"If a member is above 55 years old and participates in the CPF LIFE scheme, the extra interest will still be earned on his combined balances, which includes the savings used for CPF LIFE." (Emphasis mine.)

Just write this (for example), and you're not unnecessarily creating panic: "This extra interest of up to $900 will be paid either to your Retirement Account or to the CPF LIFE pool (and to boost your claim on that pool), or to some combination, depending on whether you opt for CPF LIFE payouts (and your particular payout plan) or AMPs." Problem solved then.

 

[maple96]

Yes, and you're trying to be misleading in that language.

Whether any bonus interest is paid to the Retirement Account, to the CPF LIFE pool, or to some of both, it's paid regardless. All Special Singapore Government Securities (SSGS) earn the same interest rates, including eligible bonus interest, whether individually accounted in your RA and/or in your claim share to the CPF LIFE pool. You can decide which payout plan you prefer, as all CPF LIFE members can, but nobody is losing any bonus interest.

Don't believe me? OK, then you don't believe CPF either. Here's what CPF wrote in InTouch Magazine (February, 2015):

"Monies in your Retirement Account and the CPF LIFE pool currently earn a guaranteed interest rate of up to 5% per year, including an additional 1% interest per year paid on the first $60,000 of your combined balances (with up to $20,000 from your Ordinary Account)." (Emphasis mine. February, 2015, was before the introduction of the additional 1% bonus interest on the first $30,000.)

Here's another example from CPF:

"If a member is above 55 years old and participates in the CPF LIFE scheme, the extra interest will still be earned on his combined balances, which includes the savings used for CPF LIFE." (Emphasis mine.)

Just write this (for example), and you're not unnecessarily creating panic: "This extra interest of up to $900 will be paid either to your Retirement Account or to the CPF LIFE pool (and to boost your claim on that pool), or to some combination, depending on whether you opt for CPF LIFE payouts (and your particular payout plan) or AMPs." Problem solved then.

Dun try to deceive yourself or mislead others. My statement is 100% perfectly correct as I am talking about RA, u are talking about the CPF Life Pool where interest belong to the pool, not your money except if u live long enough

And dun quote old info!

Read this from current CPF website:


Q Where will the extra interest be paid to after I join CPF LIFE?

A If you have chosen the CPF LIFE Standard Plan or CPF LIFE Escalating Plan, the extra interest will be paid into the Lifelong Income Fund. By paying the extra interest into the Lifelong Income Fund, you will be able to enjoy a more stable payout for the rest of your life. The extra interest will be pooled and factored into your monthly CPF LIFE payouts.

If you have chosen the CPF LIFE Basic Plan, we will pay the extra interest earned into your Retirement Account and pay it to you in the year it is earned as part of your monthly CPF LIFE payout. When your combined balances fall below $60,000, the extra interest will reduce. This reduces your monthly CPF LIFE payouts gradually.

The BIG difference is if u die earlier than expected, your bene gets the extra 2% interest credited to RA (up to 900 pa) if u choose Basic Plan and continue to topup after payout starts!

Your bene will not get the extra 2% interest credited to the CPF Life Pool if u choose Standard or Escalating Plans! and continue to topup after payout starts!

 

[BBCWatcher]

No, no, 1,000 times no. That's not what CPF is saying, and you're being misleading.

Every CPF LIFE member (who has started payouts) has claims to the Lifelong Income Fund (the CPF LIFE pool). Bonus interest is always paid for everyone who qualifies. Whatever your claim share to the CPF LIFE pool is, your claim always includes any bonus interest paid into the pool that's attributable to you. That bonus interest is always factored into your payouts.

You don't get two runs at the bonus interest when you make RA top-ups. If you've already qualified for the maximum of $900 of annual bonus interest, you've already qualified. A top-up won't change that, and neither AMPs nor CPF LIFE payouts will get any bump from bonus interest when there's $0 more bonus interest.

In the odd case when you've got, say, total CPF balances (including CPF LIFE pool) of $40,000 and then make a Retirement Account top up of $20,000, you do get a bump in bonus interest. That bonus interest is always paid, and no matter what CPF LIFE payout plan (or AMP) you pick, your payout amount will bumped up to reflect both the top up amount and the bonus interest.

You're trying to conflate bonus interest with longevity risk pooling, and that's just not correct. It's nonsense, actually, and it's exactly the opposite of what CPF explains rather well.

 

[maple96]

I dun want to waste time with someone who never pass maths, and someone so shortsighted, good luck!

 

[dork32]

maple is right. what he quoted appeared in word for in the cpf life faq.

i just want to add to maple comments. in standard or escalating, you lose 900 a year of bonus interest to the lifelong income fund.
this is small compared to when you the 4% on your entire RA. your ra would be 250k at 65 if you are at frs at 55. this amounts to 10k.

the thing that lifelong income fund belongs to everyone including myself is crab. you can go ahead to contribute towards it

i will just contriubute to my ra. My ra, the bonus interest and the 10k interest belongs to me and only me. ok lah maybe my kids.

 

[dork32]

I dun want to waste time with someone who never pass maths, and someone so shortsighted, good luck!

not fair to say that he did not pass maths. he did not post any calculations for you to mark.

not fair to say that he is shortsighted. His view is so long that it beyond his death.

it is just that it is either his understanding is poor, or he is trying to con people into escalating.

 

[maple96]

not fair to say that he did not pass maths. he did not post any calculations for you to mark.

not fair to say that he is shortsighted. His view is so long that it beyond his death.

it is just that it is either his understanding is poor, or he is trying to con people into escalating.

100% SPOT ON!

the last point makes me "thaw hway"

 

[dork32]

bbc is saying:

ra earns interest. this interest increases the monthly payout of the cpflife basic

lifelong fund earns interest. this interest increases the monthly payout of cpflife escalating.

both the interest helps to to increase the monthly payout, so why are you grumbling that it is different
bbc is right

maple says
ra earns interest. this interest increases the monthly payout of the cpflife basic. this interest is given to your kids should you die "young".

lifelong fund earns interest. this interest increases the monthly payout of cpflife escalating. this interest is gone if you die young.

maple is also right
maple thinks a bit further than bbc

 

[a4973]

maple is right. what he quoted appeared in word for in the cpf life faq.

i just want to add to maple comments. in standard or escalating, you lose 900 a year of bonus interest to the lifelong income fund.
this is small compared to when you the 4% on your entire RA. your ra would be 250k at 65 if you are at frs at 55. this amounts to 10k.

the thing that lifelong income fund belongs to everyone including myself is crab. you can go ahead to contribute towards it

i will just contriubute to my ra. My ra, the bonus interest and the 10k interest belongs to me and only me. ok lah maybe my kids.

dork32, refer to your statement "your ra would be 250k at 65 if you are at frs at 55."
may i know how do we calculate this?
ie if FRS is $176k at 55. this $176K that is transferred to RA will become how much at 65?

 

[SKenny]

Any unused balance of the AMP money after one died, will be part of bequest?
If yes, then is very good. Like a deposit with 4% interest.

Any remaining AMP amount technically is not part of your bequest but it will be part of your estate to be divided along with the rest of your CPF balances if any

Yes it is a 4% account with no early withdrawal option (unless in death).

 

[SKenny]

So long u topup before payout starts, it becomes ERS and becomes part of CPF Life, u do not have any other option to choose unless u exit CPF Life.

Yes.

10char.