CPF Easy Info Thread. :)

[ralliart12]

Pledge/charge property is for withdrawing amount above BRS and only non-topup money can be withdrawn...

Generically speaking, absolutely no way top-up monies can be withdrawn as lump sum unless I die/move out of this country right?

...a property is always under charge as long as CPF money has been used and the person has not met FRS (excluding top up) at 55.

Hi, sorry, can elaborate what “under charge” means?

 

[henrylbh]

Hi, sorry, can elaborate what “under charge” means?

When you use CPF to pay for your property, your property is under property charge by CPF. When you sell your property, CPF has first rights to receive the CPF used plus accrued interest from the sale proceeds after settlement of outstanding loan, if any.

The property charge is removed only after 55 when you have met FRS in RA. But if you wish to withdraw amount above BRS, the property charge will continue.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Is it correct that cash top-up of parents' RA of $7k, I am able to to get tax relief of $7k? There is no criteria that their income for the year is $4k or less?

That’s right.

Generically speaking, absolutely no way top-up monies can be withdrawn as lump sum unless I die/move out of this country right?

“Absolutely no way,” no. For example, you may qualify for a withdrawal on medical grounds, and there are rare exceptions involving divorce and asset splitting.

 

[dork32]

That’s right.


“Absolutely no way,” no. For example, you may qualify for a withdrawal on medical grounds, and there are rare exceptions involving divorce and asset splitting.

you sure that SA top up money cannot be withdrawn?

take a simple example of myself.

i have never top up cpf sa before. When i reach 55, i expect my sa to be 300k and frs to be 200k. i can withdraw 100k

if i had top up my sa earlier in my life, i will have a bit more in my sa at 55. Eg i have 350k instead of 300k. i can now withdraw 150k.

for the latter example, it is clear that the withdrawal amount is 50k more.

it does not matter which part of your sa forms the ra.
i can say that the ra is formed by 150k from my employment contribution and 50k from the sa topup, or
i can say the ra is formed by the 200k from my employment contribution.
it makes no difference.

the difference is that i can withdraw more at 55 if i were to top up

 

[ralliart12]

...
“Absolutely no way,” no. For example, you may qualify for a withdrawal on medical grounds, and there are rare exceptions involving divorce and asset splitting.

so if I'm healthy, and happy, I cannot lump-sum take out the monies that I explicitly topped up (using cash)?

 

[dork32]

so if I'm healthy, and happy, I cannot lump-sum take out the monies that I explicitly topped up (using cash)?

i have already given you the example that you can withdraw lump sum

 

[BBCWatcher]

Dork32 makes a fair point, and it's a point I also make periodically.

 

[henrylbh]

i have already given you the example that you can withdraw lump sum

But your example is not complete. If you next try to pledge your property to withdraw amount above BRS, the 50k is stuck in RA.

 

[LoanGroan]

you sure that SA top up money cannot be withdrawn?

take a simple example of myself.

i have never top up cpf sa before. When i reach 55, i expect my sa to be 300k and frs to be 200k. i can withdraw 100k

if i had top up my sa earlier in my life, i will have a bit more in my sa at 55. Eg i have 350k instead of 300k. i can now withdraw 150k.

for the latter example, it is clear that the withdrawal amount is 50k more.

it does not matter which part of your sa forms the ra.
i can say that the ra is formed by 150k from my employment contribution and 50k from the sa topup, or
i can say the ra is formed by the 200k from my employment contribution.
it makes no difference.

the difference is that i can withdraw more at 55 if i were to top up

What if the top up amount and interest earned is more than the FRS?

 

[dork32]

But your example is not complete. If you next try to pledge your property to withdraw amount above BRS, the 50k is stuck in RA.

the question is sa top up can never be withdrawn as a lump sum.

as long as i give one counter example, it is sufficient.

i am not here to argue about all the possible permutations of topping up

 

[maple96]

so if I'm healthy, and happy, I cannot lump-sum take out the monies that I explicitly topped up (using cash)?

But your example is not complete. If you next try to pledge your property to withdraw amount above BRS, the 50k is stuck in RA.

Uncle henry is absolutely right! But your argument will be stronger if u shoot dork32 who obviously showed he dun understand CPF rules at all!

CPF only use the term "lumpsum withdrawal" to refer to withdrawals from RA!

Withdrawals from OA/SA are normal withdrawals allowed in any amount and at anytime so long u meet FRS at 55.

Talk CPF rules, not rubbish!

Whenever there is opportunity, I will be back

 

[chiokcc]

Thanks BBCWatcher!

I was reading this page on topping-up using cash to family member's RA.

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Schemes/schemes/retirement/retirement-sum-topping-up-scheme

Is it correct that cash top-up of parents' RA of $7k, I am able to to get tax relief of $7k? There is no criteria that their income for the year is $4k or less?

That’s right.

 

[henrylbh]

the question is sa top up can never be withdrawn as a lump sum.

as long as i give one counter example, it is sufficient.

i am not here to argue about all the possible permutations of topping up

Who is arguing? I merely state that top-up cannot be withdrawn. Doesn't matter whether it is lumpsum or whatever and whether it's sitting in OA or RA. It can't even be invested, not to say withdraw.

 

[dork32]

Who is arguing? I merely state that top-up cannot be withdrawn. Doesn't matter whether it is lumpsum or whatever and whether it's sitting in OA or RA. It can't even be invested, not to say withdraw.

i am merely answering the question: top up to sa cannot be withdrawn as a lump sum.

i have given one example that top ups can be withdrawn. you still want to argue that it cannot be withdrawn

 

[dork32]

Whenever there is opportunity, I will be back

we tok english. lump sum withdrawal is one fine day, i walk into cpf building and a few days later a few thousand go into my bank account.

the other way to withdraw is though payout and bequest.

so if i walk into dbs and withdraw 5000 from my account. this 5000 is not lump sum, it is normal. wat tokking you?????

lump sum withdrawal is today, i put 5k into cpf sa. at 55 i go cpf and withdraw this 5k out.

 

[dork32]

at 55, i withdraw 10k from my sa. it is called normal withdrawal

at 65, i withdraw 10k from my ra. it is called lumpsum withdrawal.

please lah. to me 10k is still 10k. it is in one lumpsum

maple just want to chase after the tiny bits that does not affect anything.

 

[dork32]

ralliart12 wrote:
Generically speaking, absolutely no way top-up monies can be withdrawn as lump sum unless I die/move out of this country right?

this is the question that i am answering. got mention ra or from cpf life or whatever or not.

which part of my example is wrong

 

[Okenba]

"Are we able to see the amount that we have RSTU?"
Totally YES

Login to my cpf online and on the My Statement page, you'll find this sentence just above "Section B": Part of your account has been reserved. View details.

Click on "details" and there you should see:

"Amount Reserved (as at 10 Oct 2020)
You have $xxx.xx in your Special Account under the Retirement Sum Topping Up Scheme. This comprises the top-up amount and any interest earned, and has been reserved to be transferred to your Retirement Account when you turn 55."

Thanks for this. I find it interesting because when I chk the amount that I can invest from SA, it shows my total SA-$40k.

I think if your RSTU (+accrued interest) is < $40k, then the restriction of $40k covers it.

IE. The $40k is the min amount that cannot be invested. Only when your RSTU rises above $40k, then the amount that cannot be invested = RSTU.

It is not: Amt that cannot invested = RSTU + $40k. (Not that it matters honestly. Shrug)

 

[MangoTuna65]

so if I'm healthy, and happy, I cannot lump-sum take out the monies that I explicitly topped up (using cash)?

My interpretation is:
Lets say BRS is 125k and FRS is 250k.

If at 55, your CPF OA + SA > 250K, you can lump sum withdraw until 250K is left in the RA.

If you don't have 250K, you need to pledge your property and then you can only lump sum withdraw until 125K is left in the RA. However, you cannot withdraw the monies that you top up earlier on your own, or grants, or interest earned, even if these amount 'helped' you go over the 125K threshold.

Is my interpretation correct?

 

[dork32]

My interpretation is:
Lets say BRS is 125k and FRS is 250k.

If at 55, your CPF OA + SA > 250K, you can lump sum withdraw until 250K is left in the RA.

If you don't have 250K, you need to pledge your property and then you can only lump sum withdraw until 125K is left in the RA. However, you cannot withdraw the monies that you top up earlier on your own, or grants, or interest earned, even if these amount 'helped' you go over the 125K threshold.

Is my interpretation correct?

use your example: if you have 200k and this 200k is made up of 75k top up+ interest and 125k thru employment.

because 75k is through top up, this sum cannot be withdrawn. but it is still 50k below brs. so 50k is taken from your portion from employment. the other 75k can be withdrawn.
or
you can just say brs is 125k, i have 200k . i can withdraw 75k.

if your top up amount is not large, it is not going to affect the amount that can be withdrawn. for many of us, this is going to be likely situation. as a salaried worker, most of us would not be able to top up a lot of money.

of course there are exceptions. people like ocs is topping up their kids cpf even before they are in pri 1. these kids are going to have a lot in the sa when they retire maybe even more that what they can contribute through their employment.