CPF interest for 2016

angtc11

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I managed to bring down the difference to 1c. But there is no room for such maths. It has to be perfect. So there is still something I cannot understand.

In the process of recalculation to reach the 1c difference, I discovered -

a) a later date with higher balance was used to determine the interest! That because an amount in the later date is determined to originate at the beginning of the month.

Example -
1 Jan balance $10
2 Jan balance $8
3 Jan balance $12

3 Jan balance was recognised as the increase is due to transfer of balance, between accounts, existing on 1 Jan. (That was actually overflow of interest earned last year but credited on 3 Jan). In other word, it does not strictly follow chronological order :s22:

b) a date that has 2 credit entries, the first entry making the lowest balance is recognised for interest calculation. Sucks that depends on the person which entry he wants to input first :s13: Here it strictly follow timing in chronological order :s22:

Example -
1 Mar balance $10 brought forward
1 Mar balance $8
1 Mar balance $12
31 Mar balance $12 carried forward

1 Mar with balance of $8 was recognised as the lowest balance although on the same day there were a deduction of $2 and a credit of $4.

I would have thought that deduction and credit on the same date should be netted off to determined the lowest balance at the end of that day. But no :s22:

That's how I lost $31 as there was a deduction of $100 to bring the balance to the lowest and then followed by a credit of $15,000 on the same date that was not recognised :s22:

Point a) is quite interesting. It means that cpf is showing the processing date but uses a separate value date which is not published.

Point b) is again probably for their convenience as they don't track daily balance. This also means my steps need to be updated as the lowest balance is not based on eod balance
 

kehyi4

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I managed to bring down the difference to 1c. But there is no room for such maths. It has to be perfect. So there is still something I cannot understand.

In the process of recalculation to reach the 1c difference, I discovered -

a) a later date with higher balance was used to determine the interest! That because an amount in the later date is determined to originate at the beginning of the month.

Example -
1 Jan balance $10
2 Jan balance $8
3 Jan balance $12

3 Jan balance was recognised as the increase is due to transfer of balance, between accounts, existing on 1 Jan. (That was actually overflow of interest earned last year but credited on 3 Jan). In other word, it does not strictly follow chronological order :s22:

b) a date that has 2 credit entries, the first entry making the lowest balance is recognised for interest calculation. Sucks that depends on the person which entry he wants to input first :s13: Here it strictly follow timing in chronological order :s22:

Example -
1 Mar balance $10 brought forward
1 Mar balance $8
1 Mar balance $12
31 Mar balance $12 carried forward

1 Mar with balance of $8 was recognised as the lowest balance although on the same day there were a deduction of $2 and a credit of $4.

I would have thought that deduction and credit on the same date should be netted off to determined the lowest balance at the end of that day. But no :s22:

That's how I lost $31 as there was a deduction of $100 to bring the balance to the lowest and then followed by a credit of $15,000 on the same date that was not recognised :s22:
Thanks Henry!

With point (a), my CPF interest estimates are all within plus/minus $0.01. That's terrific coz I don't need it to be exact :)
 

havetheveryfun

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its not possible to just email CPF directly and ask them how the interest is calculated ? I don't think its a secret that they cant share ?
 

doody_

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Is there really a need to bother so much on how interest is calculated? I take the figures as correct. It's not like CPF is going to do anything if you tell them your interest was off by 10c :o
 

kehyi4

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Is there really a need to bother so much on how interest is calculated? I take the figures as correct. It's not like CPF is going to do anything if you tell them your interest was off by 10c :o
For me, it's just for my personal satisfaction lah, to be able to predict how much interest i'm getting just makes me feel shiok :s13:
 

TaZ_MaN

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Wondering if any kind soul help me with this question... I extracted this paragraph from CPF Q&A.

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Schemes/schemes/retirement/withdrawals-of-cpf-savings-from-55
Q Why are top-ups to my CPF accounts, CPF LIFE Bonus and Deferment Bonus not included in the lump sum withdrawal amount?

A Top-up monies, CPF LIFE Bonus and Deferment Bonus are specifically meant to increase members’ monthly payouts under the Retirement Sum Scheme/CPF LIFE. Hence, they should only be streamed out in the form of monthly payouts.



Does it means that any top up cannot be withdrawn at 55? For example, if I have $210k in my OA & SA, the Full retirement sum is $180k and over the years I have top up $20k. Does it means that I can only get up to $10k at 55 (without a house pledge). Thanks in advance...
 

deathman91

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I struggle with the definition of computed monthly but compounded annually.

Does it mean that interest for the month = the lowest balance of that month * interest rate pa * (days in that month / 365)?

For example,
01-FEB-2017 : $1000
02-FEB-2017 : $2000
03-FEB-2017 : $3000
...
28-FEB-2017 : $3000

The interest for FEB 2017 will be $1000 * interest pa * (28/365)?


Repeat the above for all the 12 months in a year and that will be the total interest paid by CPF for that year?
 

elnewbie

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You can withdraw $30k since the $30k came from mandatory contributions.

Wondering if any kind soul help me with this question... I extracted this paragraph from CPF Q&A.

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Schemes/schemes/retirement/withdrawals-of-cpf-savings-from-55
Q Why are top-ups to my CPF accounts, CPF LIFE Bonus and Deferment Bonus not included in the lump sum withdrawal amount?

A Top-up monies, CPF LIFE Bonus and Deferment Bonus are specifically meant to increase members’ monthly payouts under the Retirement Sum Scheme/CPF LIFE. Hence, they should only be streamed out in the form of monthly payouts.



Does it means that any top up cannot be withdrawn at 55? For example, if I have $210k in my OA & SA, the Full retirement sum is $180k and over the years I have top up $20k. Does it means that I can only get up to $10k at 55 (without a house pledge). Thanks in advance...
 

TaZ_MaN

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You can withdraw $30k since the $30k came from mandatory contributions.

Hmm... never thought of it in this way. I think you are probably right. The policy aims to close the loop hole like..., If you have a parent who is reaching 55 and has no or little SA/OA, you can top up their account and withdraw the money and at the same time get the tax relief.

Many thanks for your reply.

In anyway, to play safe, I still top up my MA instead of my SA. My MA has reached its ceiling last year and will soon overflow to my SA anyway. But by topping up my MA, i have the option of topping up my SA towards the end of the year when I will know how much will it earn for this year. Also, this is considered as MA VC and not as Retirement Sum topping up scheme.
 

elnewbie

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Yeah I always topup my MA first since the salary overflows will go into SA. And it's tax deductible as well.

Hmm... never thought of it in this way. I think you are probably right. The policy aims to close the loop hole like..., If you have a parent who is reaching 55 and has no or little SA/OA, you can top up their account and withdraw the money and at the same time get the tax relief.

Many thanks for your reply.

In anyway, to play safe, I still top up my MA instead of my SA. My MA has reached its ceiling last year and will soon overflow to my SA anyway. But by topping up my MA, i have the option of topping up my SA towards the end of the year when I will know how much will it earn for this year. Also, this is considered as MA VC and not as Retirement Sum topping up scheme.
 

Mecisteus

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I struggle with the definition of computed monthly but compounded annually.

Does it mean that interest for the month = the lowest balance of that month * interest rate pa * (days in that month / 365)?

For example,
01-FEB-2017 : $1000
02-FEB-2017 : $2000
03-FEB-2017 : $3000
...
28-FEB-2017 : $3000

The interest for FEB 2017 will be $1000 * interest pa * (28/365)?

Repeat the above for all the 12 months in a year and that will be the total interest paid by CPF for that year?

CPF is not like a bank where the latter calculates interests daily.

Interests for a month in CPF is just 1/12 * nominal rate. This is why it is called monthly computation.

Add all the I1 to I12 (where I1 is the interests for month of January). This sum is added annually to your CPF balance. Compounded annually means the following year interests will include previous year interests.
 

henrylbh

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CPF interest compounded or not?

This is the history:

From 1955 to 1976, CPF interest was credited and compounded annually.
From 1977 to 1985, CPF interest was credited quarterly and compounded annually.
From 1986 to present, CPF interest was computed monthly and compounded and credited annually.

In any case, interest is compounded annually, though in 1977 through 1985 interest was credited quarterly. Prior to 1977, CPF Board never give breakdown except one line statement annually.

CPF is not like a bank where the latter calculates interests daily.

Interests for a month in CPF is just 1/12 * nominal rate. This is why it is called monthly computation.

Add all the I1 to I12 (where I1 is the interests for month of January). This sum is added annually to your CPF balance. Compounded annually means the following year interests will include previous year interests.

Prior to 1986, interest was calculated on daily basis, credited quarterly and compounded annually.

From 1986, it seems to me that interest is computed monthly on lowest balance divided by 12 and compounded annually.
 

tmkedmw

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Check this morning and the colorful dashboard for your 2016 CPF Annual Statement pdf is now available online. Had checked last Thurs and it wasn't there.


Don't know for sure.
Just for reference, statement for 2015 colored hardcopy rec'd in early-mid Feb 2016, and just my guesstimate that the online pdf copy is available probably a week or two before that.
 

henrylbh

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Check this morning and the colorful dashboard for your 2016 CPF Annual Statement pdf is now available online. Had checked last Thurs and it wasn't there.

Thanks for info. Just downloaded and saved annual statement comprising 5 pages including page on abbreviation codes.
 
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