CPF SA

dork32

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Thanks!

What if they don't have the FRS of 180k in RA yet?

Confused on this because I thought CPF will automatically transfer SA/OA into RA to meet the sum, but that didn't happen.

actually, my statement is whether you can withdraw the sa or not. if your parents pledged their property, then they will need much less.

you cannot give half baked information and expect good advice here. the experts are just guessing what is happening. example of half baked info are
1. substantial amount in sa
2. dont have frs.
what is the amount in sa and ra now?
3. got property to pledge or not?

my personal view is this, if you want to lock up my money, you better give me a better interest rate. sa is not locked (if frs/brs is met), ra is.

and lets say substantial = cannot even withdraw 1 cent from sa,
transfer to ra means a higher monthly payout but lower amount left for you when they die. since the money is all locked up, i will do the transfer. at least with the ra, i still can take out a small sum every month
 

BBCWatcher

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and lets say substantial = cannot even withdraw 1 cent from sa,
transfer to ra means a higher monthly payout but lower amount left for you when they die. since the money is all locked up, i will do the transfer. at least with the ra, i still can take out a small sum every month
We can agree that, at least if the home loan is paid off and if there are some OA funds, that reciprocal (cross-spouse) OA to RA transfers are much better than SA to RA transfers, right?

I agree the precise details matter, for example whether these SAs are already liquid or, if not (i.e. “underfunded” RAs), how close they are to liquidity (how underfunded the RAs are).
 

Surrealz

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We can agree that, at least if the home loan is paid off and if there are some OA funds, that reciprocal (cross-spouse) OA to RA transfers are much better than SA to RA transfers, right?

I agree the precise details matter, for example whether these SAs are already liquid or, if not (i.e. “underfunded” RAs), how close they are to liquidity (how underfunded the RAs are).


Thanks for the very helpful advice everyone! Apologies for my lack of details, had to visit my parents to scrutinise their CPF statements.

To be honest I didn't follow up on their personal finances because I have been working overseas. And I have absolutely no idea what they've been doing with their government letters, so definitely trying to play catch-up here.

Mom is a retired homemaker and didn't worked much. RA is only 9k and OA+SA total around 18k.

Dad is retired too, OA+SA 25K, RA 82K.

So both of them are nowhere near even the BasicRS, much less the FullRS. They are receiving monthly payouts under RSS.

No, they didn't pledge any property.

House mortgage is fully paid for, not doing investments, so they are not using their OA nor SA. Their assets are more cash-heavy.
 

BBCWatcher

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OK, if they’re relatively “cash heavy and CPF poor,” they probably ought to fix that, starting with your mother who isn’t even collecting all of the first tier of bonus interest (6%!). And is she really withdrawing via the classic Retirement Sum Scheme with those low balances and with relatively lots of household cash? If so, she’s evidently withdrawing 6% interest earning money. Oy. :(

I suppose the good news is they have opportunities for improvement, if they wish. :)

Next year there’s a matching funds scheme debuting that one or both may be eligible for, called the Matched Retirement Savings Scheme. I agree that that new program should be factored into any actions, but that doesn’t mean doing nothing now.
 
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AhBui168

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What if really no choice, our OA have not enough funds to deduct our housing loan ?

Any chances to use SA to deduct for housing loan instead of paying cash every month ?
 

reddevil0728

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What if really no choice, our OA have not enough funds to deduct our housing loan ?

Any chances to use SA to deduct for housing loan instead of paying cash every month ?
Use cash? or seek help from your bank/hdb on your financial situation.
 

dork32

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Thanks for the very helpful advice everyone! Apologies for my lack of details, had to visit my parents to scrutinise their CPF statements.

To be honest I didn't follow up on their personal finances because I have been working overseas. And I have absolutely no idea what they've been doing with their government letters, so definitely trying to play catch-up here.

Mom is a retired homemaker and didn't worked much. RA is only 9k and OA+SA total around 18k.

Dad is retired too, OA+SA 25K, RA 82K.

So both of them are nowhere near even the BasicRS, much less the FullRS. They are receiving monthly payouts under RSS.

No, they didn't pledge any property.

House mortgage is fully paid for, not doing investments, so they are not using their OA nor SA. Their assets are more cash-heavy.

for mom, i would transfer all to ra to receive a higher payout.

for dad, i will pledge property, transfer oa to ra to make up brs, retain sa for withdrawal should emergency arrive.
if dad needs more payout, then withdraw from sa as and when needed.
 
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BBCWatcher

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for dad, i will pledge property, transfer to oa to make up brs, retain sa for withdrawal should emergency arrive.
Do you mean repay OA used for housing? Possible, but an “all three account” Voluntary Contribution could be better. It’ll depend on the father’s MA balance, really, and how much he wants to add to his MA. (The MA residual goes to his nominee, presumably the mother, and that’s not a bad thing at all. MA also earns 4% interest.) And bear in mind there could be $600 in matching funds available but only if he still hasn’t reached the BRS next year (2021). That’s not necessarily a reason for inaction (since CPF interest could be more important), but $600 in free money is a consideration.

if dad needs more payout, then withdraw from sa as and when needed.
I think serious consideration ought to be given to at least one of these parents joining CPF LIFE, probably the mother first and assuming her RA is boosted (which should be the priority since she doesn’t appear to be even close to maximizing bonus interest). The point of CPF LIFE is to avoid outliving one’s savings either through exhaustion or mismanagement. That longevity protection has value.

We don’t have complete information here, such as cash and MediSave balances. However, let’s suppose for sake of argument this couple is sitting on $750,000 stewing in bank fixed deposits and savings accounts. (Maybe they sold a private property and didn’t use much or any OA to pay for it.) Almost certainly then they should be injecting significant amounts of cash into CPF, starting with the mother’s Retirement Account. All we know to this point is that they have at least decent cash reserves.

I should also point out that the children can qualify for tax relief. Let’s suppose there are two children, both in the 7% income tax bracket. Each of them could deposit $7,000 into their mother’s Retirement Account, then next year they’ll get $490 back from IRAS in the form of reduced income tax. They could even make those top ups then ask their parents to hand them $6,520 each and still come out $10 ahead. (Well, OK, the tax savings comes later, and there is a little interest that could be earned on $7,000 in the meantime, but $10 seems fair compensation.) Obviously other arrangements are possible, but I’m simply pointing out that tax relief is likely available, so why not collect it? That doesn’t mean stopping at $7,000 or $14,000 of top ups.
 
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dork32

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Do you mean repay OA used for housing? Possible, but an “all three account” Voluntary Contribution could be better. It’ll depend on the father’s MA balance, really, and how much he wants to add to his MA. (The MA residual goes to his nominee, presumably the mother, and that’s not a bad thing at all. MA also earns 4% interest.) And bear in mind there could be $600 in matching funds available but only if he still hasn’t reached the BRS next year (2021). That’s not necessarily a reason for inaction (since CPF interest could be more important), but $600 in free money is a consideration.

he say there is no more loan.

most sg people do not like to put money into cpf. i will never suggest vc.

so it is pure oa to ra. sorry for the typo
 

BBCWatcher

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he say there is no more loan.
He said there’s no more loan (mortgage), correct. He didn’t say that OA had never been used for housing or that OA has been fully repaid with accrued interest, did he?

most sg people do not like to put money into cpf. i will never suggest vc.
What is repaying OA if not putting money into CPF? If there’s a better way to inject funds into CPF in particular circumstances, let’s spell it out. If someone then wants to do something suboptimal, that’s their call.

so it is pure oa to ra. sorry for the typo
I don’t think that’s possible. Self OA to self RA transfers aren’t available unless and until self SA is exhausted, right? Cross-spouse reciprocal OA to RA transfers are possible, but not until the giver has met the Basic Retirement Sum. So that won’t work yet either.
 

dork32

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He said there’s no more loan (mortgage), correct. He didn’t say that OA had never been used for housing or that OA has been fully repaid with accrued interest, did he?


What is repaying OA if not putting money into CPF? If there’s a better way to inject funds into CPF in particular circumstances, let’s spell it out. If someone then wants to do something suboptimal, that’s their call.
whether it is optimum or not is another question. most people just hate to put money into their cpf. also at 65, the entire cpf only 100k. it means they are not rich. people that are not rich will not want to put cash into cpf.

my suggestion does not affect any cash position. it just involves in moving money around. if the guy wants to put cash into the parent's cpf, he would have phrased the question in a different way.

I don’t think that’s possible. Self OA to self RA transfers aren’t available unless and until self SA is exhausted, right? Cross-spouse reciprocal OA to RA transfers are possible, but not until the giver has met the Basic Retirement Sum. So that won’t work yet either.
i always thought that OA to RA manual transfer is possible. can other experts pls comment on this?
 

dork32

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"If you wish to enjoy higher monthly payouts, you can opt to top-up your RA up to the current Enhanced Retirement Sum after the transfer. The top-up can be made using cash, or SA and OA savings that were not affected by the transfer."

what does this statement mean? can transfer oa to ra without touching sa?
 
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Just topup SA lor so simple
Full then TOP up wife and kids SA

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