CPF Top up questions

[dork32]

A question. Let's say I tranfer $160k from OA to SA to hit FRS.

When I'm 55, this 160k + compound interest generated out of it. Can they be withdrawn? If I pledge my property, that is.

I also have the same question for those I uses cash to top up..

The way you tok, i assume that you are 30 years old.

the general advice for working people who wants a withdrawal at 55 is this:

transfer your cpf sa to frs quickly to get 4% interest.

because you are still working, you sa will still be increasing due to monthly contribution. by the time you hit 55, your sa will be way above the frs then. you can withdraw this amount then. normal working adults would be able to hit the frs just by contribution from employment alone.

the other thing to note is this. 160k in oa is very useful for a 30 year old when it comes to buying of hdb or condo. transferring it to sa, you may lose this option.

 

[peppermint7]

The sum above the FRS does not go into your RA. It will remain in OA/SA. Those you can withdraw because the restriction only applies to the amount in RA.

You will of course not be able to withdraw from RA even if you make a property pledge since your RSTU amount is higher than the difference between BRS and FRS.

Thank you!

 

[henrylbh]

The sum above the FRS does not go into your RA. It will remain in OA/SA. Those you can withdraw because the restriction only applies to the amount in RA.

You will of course not be able to withdraw from RA even if you make a property pledge since your RSTU amount is higher than the difference between BRS and FRS.

OA $160k transferred to SA
Cash $160k topped up to SA

At 55, SA plus interest moved to RA.

Cannot make property pledge to make withdrawal from RA?

 

[dork32]

Im late 40. Not working. Same like bluestone my property fully paid. I have transfered via OA to SA also via cash top up about $160k to meet my FRS last year. Now after reading thru the threads i got confused. I thought I'll not be able to withdraw anything above FRS cos i have topped up my SA via cash + transfer from OA

I feel consoled now to learn that I'm able to do so.

since you already have a property and do not wish to buy one more, oa is rubbish money till you are 55. transferring to sa is a good decision.

Transfer or not, you cannot touch the money till 55
Transfer or not, you will be able to withdraw after 55
might as well as earn 4% instead of 2.5%

like wat i said many times, there is no one size fit all solution. my decision as a 30 year old or a 48 year old will be very different.

 

[tangent314]

According to https://www.cpf.gov.sg/members/FAQ/...ent Sum Scheme&folderid=12567&ajfaqid=2188693

"You may apply to withdraw your Retirement Account (RA) savings (excluding interest earned, any government grants received and top-ups made under the Retirement Sum Topping-up scheme) above your Basic Retirement Sum (BRS) if you (...)"

Unless I'm misreading this, it sounds like any RSTU top ups cannot be withdrawn with a property pledge. Both OA->SA tranfers and Cash->SA top-ups fall under the RSTU scheme. I guess there is a bit an ambiguity of whether an OA->SA transfer counts as a RSTU top-up or if transfers and top-ups are treated different for this property pledge case.

 

[peppermint7]

OA $160k transferred to SA
Cash $160k topped up to SA

At 55, SA plus interest moved to RA.

Cannot make property pledge to make withdrawal from RA?

So is can? Or cannot?

 

[dork32]

I don't have much in OA to begin with actually. I have transferred all to my SA.

Cos i vaguely remember seeing something like if i use cash to top up, this amount shall be set aside for RA. It cannot be withdrawn. Then i start to wonder. I have actually topped up in cash approx $130k+ and transfer $20k+ from OA to SA last year. So my mind keeps wondering whether this $130k+ in cash is locked.
But what about the coming years compounded interest. Are they also locked.

Also is my $20k+ from OA to SA also locked. Etc etc.

Good to understand from Henry things are fairly simple such that whatever above FRS i can withdraw. Thanks all for the informative sharing. I learn a lot from you guys

the key point to you is this: everything above frs can be withdrawn. frs is the frs then, not now. it will probably 220k+ then

after 55, you will have money in oa, sa and ra. all accounts will earn interest.
oa and sa interest can be withdrawn anytime.
you can withdraw 20% of ra (includes interest)before cpf life starts.

 

[peppermint7]

you can withdraw 20% of ra (includes interest)before cpf life starts.

Oh this is something new to me Thank you!

 

[dork32]

Oh this is something new to me Thank you!

read this from cpf

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Schemes/schemes/retirement/withdrawals-of-cpf-savings-from-55

i also not very sure how it really works.

 

[BBCWatcher]

A question. Let's say I tranfer $160k from OA to SA to hit FRS.

When I'm 55, this 160k + compound interest generated out of it. Can they be withdrawn? If I pledge my property, that is.

I also have the same question for those I uses cash to top up..

Whatever is transferred into SA or RA under the RSTU scheme must remain in your RA on top of the BRS sum. Interest earned in RA also cannot be withdrawn.

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/members/FAQ/...ent Sum Scheme&folderid=12567&ajfaqid=2188693

So to say, this $160k (+ future compound interest) which i transferred to Special Account now either via cash or via OA to SA, (even though i meet FRS) I will not be able to withdraw the sum above FRS at 55. Am i right?

I hate to disagree with Tangent314, but I do on this occasion.

1. Ordinary Account to Special Account transfers do not affect how much you can withdraw from your Retirement Account, except that you'll have more total CPF dollars available because your Special Account earns at least 4% interest and your Ordinary Account earns a much lower 2.5% interest rate.

2. Cash top ups to your Special Account only possibly affect how much you can withdraw from your Retirement Account if you try to shrink your Retirement Account to some level below the Full Retirement Sum (plus interest). The CPF FAQ that Tangent314 linked to explains that detail. If you're not going to reduce your Retirement Account below the Full Retirement Sum (plus interest), then this detail doesn't matter.

 

[henrylbh]

So is can? Or cannot?

My answer is obvious.

Now depends on whether you agree with tangent314 or me

 

[henrylbh]

Oh this is something new to me �� Thank you!

As at the day he turns age 65:

Example given.

Retirement Account balance $107,400 (A)

Amount used for CPF LIFE annuity premium $74,000 (B)

Top-ups made under Retirement Sum Topping-Up scheme $20,000 (C)

CPF LIFE Bonus $2,200 (D)

Payout eligibility age lump sum withdrawal amount computed at age 65 [(A+B-C-D) x 20%] - $5,000 = $26,840

 

[peppermint7]

2. Cash top ups to your Special Account only possibly affect how much you can withdraw from your Retirement Account if you try to shrink your Retirement Account to some level below the Full Retirement Sum (plus interest). The CPF FAQ that Tangent314 linked to explains that detail. If you're not going to reduce your Retirement Account below the Full Retirement Sum (plus interest), then this detail doesn't matter.

That's where my 2nd question comes in. Whether pledging my property can remove the barrier of withdrawal.

My answer is obvious.

Now depends on whether you agree with tangent314 or me

Ok got it. Will figure it out

Thanks all bros here!

 

[Lowjmn]

Hi guys, may I know if I use AXS to topup my SA how long does it typically take for the sum to appear in my CPF account?

 

[SBC]

Hi guys, may I know if I use AXS to topup my SA how long does it typically take for the sum to appear in my CPF account?

Typically, 2-3 days.

 

[babyrobo]

Question on - Whatever is transferred into SA or RA under the RSTU scheme must remain in your RA on top of the BRS sum. Interest earned in RA also cannot be withdrawn.

If FRS is at $181k,BRS $90500
SA $191k (Inclusive of $21k is via SA cash topup, reserved sum for RSTU)

So at time of eligibility for withdrawal, how much can be withdrawn?

 

[BBCWatcher]

Question on - Whatever is transferred into SA or RA under the RSTU scheme must remain in your RA on top of the BRS sum. Interest earned in RA also cannot be withdrawn.

No, that's not correct. If you transfer OA dollars into your SA, that has no affect on how many dollars you can withdraw from your future Retirement Account with a property pledge/charge. Well, OK, it has one important effect: you'll be richer -- you'll have more total CPF dollars, because SA earns higher interest than OA. So you'll have more dollars available for withdrawal.

A cash top up is not a transfer, and I think you're referring to cash top ups. Let's proceed....

If FRS is at $181k,BRS $90500
SA $191k (Inclusive of $21k is via SA cash topup, reserved sum for RSTU)
So at time of eligibility for withdrawal, how much can be withdrawn?

If your Retirement Account is formed this year (2020), it'll be funded up to the Full Retirement Sum. That'll leave $10,000 in your Special Account, plus whatever is in your Ordinary Account. Your SA+OA is then available for withdrawal any time after your 55th birthday. That part doesn't change, except when you make cash top ups to your Special Account you have more total dollars. More total dollars means more available to withdraw -- you're richer.

With respect to withdrawal from your RA, if you have a sufficient property pledge or charge you can also withdraw the difference between the FRS and the BRS+cash top ups+interest on the cash top ups. There's not enough information in your example to calculate this figure because the interest depends on balances and time.

Whether it's wise to withdraw funds from your Retirement Account is a separate question, and the answer to that question is generally no. It's often better to add funds to your Retirement Account, not subtract them. But I'm answering the question you asked.

 

[henrylbh]

Hi guys, may I know if I use AXS to topup my SA how long does it typically take for the sum to appear in my CPF account?

Use PayNow and the credit will be almost instant. Other mode will have delay of about 2 days.

 

[peppermint7]

For any one who is eligible

http://links.e.cpf.gov.sg/servlet/M...k5NzA2MTE4MjcyS0&j=MTIwMDA0MjI3NAS2&mt=1&rt=0

Following are the CPF-related highlights from Minister for Manpower Mrs Josephine Teo’s speech during the FY2020 Committee of Supply Debate in Parliament on 3 March 2020:

Matched MediSave Contributions in Contribute-as-you-Earn Pilot
The Contribute-as-you-Earn (CAYE) pilot was launched at the start of 2020 to help self-employed persons (SEPs) better save for their healthcare needs through smaller and more regular MediSave contributions whenever they receive payment from Government agencies.

To help SEPs transit to CAYE, the Government will provide a dollar-for-dollar matching for CAYE contributions made by the SEP in 2020, capped at $600.

Matched Retirement Savings Scheme
The Government will introduce the Matched Retirement Savings Scheme (MRSS) from 2021 to 2025 to boost the CPF savings of lower- to middle-income Singaporeans aged 55 to 70.

The Government will match every dollar of cash top-ups made to the Retirement Account of eligible members, up to $600 annually or $3,000 over five years.

 

[tangent314]

I have contacted CPF Board regarding the ambiguity about whether CPF transfers under the RSTU scheme is also excluded from being withdrawn with property pledge. This is the response

MEMBER@cpf.gov.sg
Mar 5, 2020, 2:34 PM (1 day ago)
to me

Dear Mr xxxxxx

Thank you for your email of 2 March 2020.

You may apply to withdraw your Retirement Account (RA) savings *(excluding interest earned, any government grants received and top-ups made under the Retirement Sum Topping-up scheme) above your Basic Retirement Sum (BRS) if you:

are 55 years old and above; and
own a property with remaining lease that can last you to at least 95 years old. This recognises that your current home is sufficient to meet your retirement housing needs without the need to worry about incurring rental cost in old age.
You can withdraw your RA savings above the BRS fully if the expected CPF housing refund is able to restore your RA to your Full Retirement Sum when you sell/transfer the property in future.

*The exclusion on top ups under RSTU is regardless whether you top up using cash or CPF transfers.

I would be pleased to help if you require further assistance. For more information on CPF, please visit cpf.gov.sg or call 1800 227 1188 / +65 6227 1188 (overseas) from Monday to Friday, 8am to 5:30pm.

Yours sincerely
Karen Huang (Ms)
Customer Service Executive
Customer Contact Centre
Central Provident Fund Board

So yes, both cash top-ups AND CPF transfers are excluded from being withdrawn with a property pledge.