Critical Illness coverage (CI)

[winthony]

Hmmm.. I am not sure if in the essence of time to meet the new definition could I let manulife to pre-access my condition ��

Medical report takes time but the deadline for the current definition is like this week or next.

But I think i get your point.
Manulife having a more clear cut details of your body will pay accordingly based on what they accepted you initially based on the report produced upon inception? Whereas for Aviva, there is a chance if ambiguity if I understand this correctly?

Well, if you are healthy, and the signing of documents is done before the 15th, I think you will meet the deadline for the old ci definition. The deadline is 15 Aug


The chances of ambiguity exist everywhere if you declare healthy and it turns out that you are not disclosing everything truthfully! Every insurer will pay accordingly based on what they accepted you on haha

 

[gohsj89]

I beg to differ on your latter statement.

Refer to this https://www.straitstimes.com/forum/...mers-must-come-clean-about-medical-conditions

I think it is the responsibility of the applicant to disclose all medical information truthfully. You will notice that at the end of the application before you sign, you have to acknowledge that you disclosed all material truth to the best of your knowledge. The onus is on you to provide the truth and in the event it is discovered that you actually chose not to disclose, i think in the future if your claims is rejected, you know on what grounds they did it on.

Thus, I always advise my clients to disclose every single thing as truthful as possible. Don't try to hide information just to increase your odds of having normal coverage. It is a norm for insurers to not carry out any further checks or request for medical examination if the applicant has nothing to disclose. I dont think in this case you can fault any insurers for not imposing stricter measures to safeguard their own interest because as quoted "An insurance policy is a legally binding contract based on utmost good faith on the part of the applicant."

End of the day, I think if you are truthful, you don't have to fear that you are unable to get your claims




Now I am going to play the devil's advocate haha. Not trying to argue or pick a fight but I think if you declare you have any checks done to any insurers, they will request for the reports. Likewise, if you declare clean bill of health, I don't think there is any report to furnish

I even declared
Guess nothing else could make my premium higher lol!
Other than that, I am free of anything.

 

[winthony]

I even declared
Guess nothing else could make my premium higher lol!
Other than that, I am free of anything.

Haha, even if the company request for any additional information, as long as the policy is signed before the 15 of Aug, you will be fine because the policy issuance 25th feb latest for 2014 Ci definition

 

[boredboiboi]

I even declared
Guess nothing else could make my premium higher lol!
Other than that, I am free of anything.

everything then no issue and reports is good then that the highest it can go.

But got cut off date for inception to enjoy the 15% discount. Must be issued by 16 oct.

 

[boredboiboi]

I beg to differ on your latter statement.

Refer to this https://www.straitstimes.com/forum/...mers-must-come-clean-about-medical-conditions

I think it is the responsibility of the applicant to disclose all medical information truthfully. You will notice that at the end of the application before you sign, you have to acknowledge that you disclosed all material truth to the best of your knowledge. The onus is on you to provide the truth and in the event it is discovered that you actually chose not to disclose, i think in the future if your claims is rejected, you know on what grounds they did it on.

Thus, I always advise my clients to disclose every single thing as truthful as possible. Don't try to hide information just to increase your odds of having normal coverage. It is a norm for insurers to not carry out any further checks or request for medical examination if the applicant has nothing to disclose. I dont think in this case you can fault any insurers for not imposing stricter measures to safeguard their own interest because as quoted "An insurance policy is a legally binding contract based on utmost good faith on the part of the applicant."

End of the day, I think if you are truthful, you don't have to fear that you are unable to get your claims




Now I am going to play the devil's advocate haha. Not trying to argue or pick a fight but I think if you declare you have any checks done to any insurers, they will request for the reports. Likewise, if you declare clean bill of health, I don't think there is any report to furnish

The fact is he is truthful. The doctor told him everything is good. He and myself dont know how to read medical reports.
That when I submit the report to aviva too after manulife declare loading.
And after re underwriting, aviva reject the application.

 

[winthony]

The fact is he is truthful. The doctor told him everything is good. He and myself dont know how to read medical reports.
That when I submit the report to aviva too after manulife declare loading.
And after re underwriting, aviva reject the application.

Manulife is sign before the cut off date. Inception can be later. Apply to all insurers as well. Cut off date is signing and submitting the applications.

That what i encounter when submitting 2 applications. Because the client was saying doctor say everything is good. As we dont know how to read reports, thus to client yes everything is good. There are time where doctor also will miss out here or there. So we take doctors words as yes pink of health.

End of the day, how underwriting works is on a case to case basis though they have certain guidelines to follow as well. Based on experience, there are times where one company would reject and another company will accept. I think it boils down to how the company assess the risk factors.

Downright reject = too high of a risk to insure
Loading = Warrants extra premium because the risk profile is higher than usual but not to the extent of rejection

Of course we have to submit all form of report if there is any at the point of application for the underwriters to assess the risk profile of the individual and if the company is willing to undertake the risk.

If client say "I am healthy" but if there is the existence of a medical report indicating otherwise, I would say it is still considered not disclosing. Not all of us are medically trained to understand terminologies used by the professionals so my best advice is always produce any form of medical report/memo/scan etc when you are applying. You might not know your exact condition but I am sure whichever documentations you have will indicate and we will leave it to how the underwriter determine if they will be willing to accept your applications. This is where the underwriters come in to assist in the assessment on behalf on the company. Insurers do "cover their back" by having questions relating to whether you have went for any examination or check-ups. This is the best time to attach your report along so it gives the insurers no reason to reject your claims in the future since you essentially declared all that you have

Hope this shed some light as to how the whole underwriting and application process works!

 

[winthony]

Just hope that end of the day, not so suay that I kena those super rare.
I not sure how rare is rare, but if really so suay, let my kids have my death payout better lol.

I would conclude that Manulife has the best value.
Other small benefit like Aviva offer interest free while you are looking for job whereas Manulife does a waiver of 6 months if I did not read wrongly.

Prudential probably cost the most for me.

Honestly, never claim, you won’t know.
Its all thru words of mouth, just like you and me.

Ultimately, we buy insurance, and when we claim, we really mean it.

Oops missed this out
you are right! We wouldnt know what will hit us and i guess this is what insurance come into play. Heck we could be footing premium all the way and only claim for death haha.

There are certain difference in coverage such as Manulife TPD ends at 70 where as Aviva covers whole of life.

Manulife offers 6 months of premium waived for retrenchment benefit whereas Aviva offers 1 year premium on hold with interest wavied up to 2 times for policy terms

Nowdays claims are getting quicker and quicker. The industry aside from price war has to stand out in customers' experience. People would be inclined to go with an insurer that they hear good stuff about!

 

[xtwis7]

Are you sure Aviva presumptive TPD covers whole of life? If you have maybe can trouble you to provide a clause from the policy wording.

Or are you referring to occupational TPD?

Oops missed this out
you are right! We wouldnt know what will hit us and i guess this is what insurance come into play. Heck we could be footing premium all the way and only claim for death haha.

There are certain difference in coverage such as Manulife TPD ends at 70 where as Aviva covers whole of life.

Manulife offers 6 months of premium waived for retrenchment benefit whereas Aviva offers 1 year premium on hold with interest wavied up to 2 times for policy terms

Nowdays claims are getting quicker and quicker. The industry aside from price war has to stand out in customers' experience. People would be inclined to go with an insurer that they hear good stuff about!

 

[boredboiboi]

Are you sure Aviva presumptive TPD covers whole of life? If you have maybe can trouble you to provide a clause from the policy wording.

Or are you referring to occupational TPD?

Maybe let me answer this

After age 70, only this wordings to claim for tpd, not other definition. Other defiris for before age 70.

While the Policy is in force, if the Life Assured has suffered total and irrecoverable:
(a) Loss of the sight of both eyes;
(b) Loss of sight of one eye and loss by severance or loss of use of one limb at or above the ankle or wrist; or
(c) Loss by severance or loss of use of:
(i) Both hands at or above the wrists;
(ii) Both feet at or above the ankles; or
(iii) One hand at or above the wrist and one foot at or above the ankle.

Usually cash value after age 70 is higher than sum assured. Thus no need to hit tpd, just surrender if need the money.

 

[gohsj89]

If I am getting Aviva mywholelife3,

Is Critical Illness Advance Cover III already covered under Early Critical Illness Advance Cover III?

Such as if I buy ECI rider, I dont need to buy the CI anymore?

 

[boredboiboi]

If I am getting Aviva mywholelife3,

Is Critical Illness Advance Cover III already covered under Early Critical Illness Advance Cover III?

Such as if I buy ECI rider, I dont need to buy the CI anymore?

Yes early ci covers all stages. Ci only late stages. But if u get pure eci. Premium will also be quite high.

Same for other insurer except ntuc. Ntuc early ci rider only covers early and intermediate stage.

And early stage ci cap at 250k. If u need higher coverage for ci, might need to add ci rider too.

 

[winthony]

Are you sure Aviva presumptive TPD covers whole of life? If you have maybe can trouble you to provide a clause from the policy wording.

Or are you referring to occupational TPD?

Maybe let me answer this

After age 70, only this wordings to claim for tpd, not other definition. Other defiris for before age 70.

While the Policy is in force, if the Life Assured has suffered total and irrecoverable:
(a) Loss of the sight of both eyes;
(b) Loss of sight of one eye and loss by severance or loss of use of one limb at or above the ankle or wrist; or
(c) Loss by severance or loss of use of:
(i) Both hands at or above the wrists;
(ii) Both feet at or above the ankles; or
(iii) One hand at or above the wrist and one foot at or above the ankle.

Usually cash value after age 70 is higher than sum assured. Thus no need to hit tpd, just surrender if need the money.

Thanks boredboiboi! The clauses break down to age bracket prior to age 70.

Lemme pull it out

“Total and Permanent Disability”, “Totally and Permanently Disabled” or “TPD” means any of the following situations:
1. While the Policy is in force, if the Life Assured has suffered total and irrecoverable:
(a) Loss of the sight of both eyes;
(b) Loss of sight of one eye and loss by severance or loss of use of one limb at or above the ankle or wrist; or
(c) Loss by severance or loss of use of:
(i) Both hands at or above the wrists;
(ii) Both feet at or above the ankles; or
(iii) One hand at or above the wrist and one foot at or above the ankle.
2. If the Life Assured is 18 years old (ANB) and below, TPD is defined as a state of permanent incapacity in which
the Life Assured is confined to a home, hospital or institution, requiring constant care and medical attention for
at least 6 consecutive months.
3. If the Life Assured is 19 years old (ANB) to 65 years old (ANB), and has suffered a disability which is total and
permanent and persists continuously for at least 6 months, with the Life Assured incapable of performing any
work or engaging in any occupation or profession to earn or obtain wages, compensation or profit, from the
time when the disability started.
4. If the Life Assured is 19 years old (ANB) to 65 years old (ANB), and in the event of the Life Assured becoming
totally and permanently unable to perform (due to disease, illness or injury) at least 3 of the 6 “Activities of Daily
Living” (despite the aid of special equipment) and requires the physical assistance of another person throughout
the entire activity for at least 6 continuous months.
5. If the Life Assured is 66 years old (ANB) to 70 years old (ANB), and in the event of the Life Assured becoming
totally and permanently unable to perform (due to disease, illness or injury) at least 2 of the 6 “Activities of Daily
Living” (despite the aid of special equipment) and requires the physical assistance of another person throughout
the entire activity for at least 6 continuous months.

 

[winthony]

If I am getting Aviva mywholelife3,

Is Critical Illness Advance Cover III already covered under Early Critical Illness Advance Cover III?

Such as if I buy ECI rider, I dont need to buy the CI anymore?

Yeap already under the ECI rider. But lets say your desired coverage for CI is 500k and you only opt for ECI rider, it would be very costly as opposed to seperating it out.

So ideally, work out a sum you desire for ECI and supplement it with a ci rider for your CI coverage.

 

[gohsj89]

Actually this whole buying experience is such a pain

 

[boredboiboi]

Actually this whole buying experience is such a pain

Haha. Settle it soon and the pain will be gone, haha. The cut off date for both manulife and aviva is different.

 

[winthony]

Actually this whole buying experience is such a pain

What exactly is troubling you?

 

[gohsj89]

What exactly is troubling you?

Difference in coverage of additional 20 illness.
Aviva dont have but I want to go with Aviva.

I prefer not to get another Prudential plan

 

[winthony]

Difference in coverage of additional 20 illness.
Aviva dont have but I want to go with Aviva.

I prefer not to get another Prudential plan

ahh, more is better eh?

I would say weigh out the premium difference if it make sense to you! Ultimately nothing wrong with all 3 companies you quoted

 

[boredboiboi]

Difference in coverage of additional 20 illness.
Aviva dont have but I want to go with Aviva.

I prefer not to get another Prudential plan

I have a solution for u. Split into 2 wholelife plan. =)

 

[gohsj89]

I have a solution for u. Split into 2 wholelife plan. =)

Broke hahah.

How that works?