DAP vs Iphone or Iphone + DAC

[Yureak]

I don't use high end equipment...
I just use a very basic Sony E-series walkman to connect to car audio system, and the sound quality already beats my phones (iPhone 5s / Samsung S4) handsdown.
Notably, the separation of different types of sound is very obvious.
With the E-series, I can hear different instruments playing distinctly, while with the phones it's more jumbled together.

My belief is... if the "source" is bad, add a DAC and you will just be amplifying the weak spots as well.

isnt the "source" considered to be post dac output? pre-dac all should be the same

 

[Mach3.2]

isnt the "source" considered to be post dac output? pre-dac all should be the same

In theory yes, but practically, no.

 

[Asure7]

This is totally wrong. You are simply comparing the headphones out of both the Walkman and Phones. There is a good chance that a properly paired phone and DAC combo with beat the hell out of your Walkman

Actually that's my point. To me, a cheap low-end DAP already sound a lot better compared to the internal DAC of my phone.
If I were to add an external DAC to the phone, what is stopping me from doing the same for the DAP?

 

[GotBeOwned]

Actually that's my point. To me, a cheap low-end DAP already sound a lot better compared to the internal DAC of my phone.
If I were to add an external DAC to the phone, what is stopping me from doing the same for the DAP?

i think there is much confusion here as you did not state if you are comparing post-dac direct line out or post-amplifier out

to me, in a phone to dac setup, the quality of the external dac matter most. the phone is just a pure transport delivering the digital files.

 

[Asure7]

i think there is much confusion here as you did not state if you are comparing post-dac direct line out or post-amplifier out

to me, in a phone to dac setup, the quality of the external dac matter most. the phone is just a pure transport delivering the digital files.

Sorry.. noob here.
I'm comparing a typical headphone out, which is the post-amp out i suppose.
I'm not aware that a typical phone has a digital line-out. When you connect the phone to dac, the audio signal already went through the internal dac, before going to the external dac for a 2nd round isn't it?... so in a sense, I consider the signal coming out from phone's headphone port as the "source" for the external dac, which is inferior compared to my walkman.

 

[jelt2359]

Sorry.. noob here.
I'm comparing a typical headphone out, which is the post-amp out i suppose.
I'm not aware that a typical phone has a digital line-out. When you connect the phone to dac, the audio signal already went through the internal dac, before going to the external dac for a 2nd round isn't it?... so in a sense, I consider the signal coming out from phone's headphone port as the "source" for the external dac, which is inferior compared to my walkman.

If you use, for example, the camera connection kit, then it bypasses the iPhone's internal DAC and uses your DAC. So as GB says, your phone is just a transport at that point- similar to how you would use a DAC with a laptop as the transport.

 

[Asure7]

If you use, for example, the camera connection kit, then it bypasses the iPhone's internal DAC and uses your DAC. So as GB says, your phone is just a transport at that point- similar to how you would use a DAC with a laptop as the transport.

oic... thanks for enlightening

 

[86technie]

Even a desktop DAC is "portable" if you take the trouble to lug a car battery around.

Might as well carry your car amplifier on your pack but
make you look like a Ninja Turtle.

 

[rickysio]

Go buy AK500N loh, AIO.

 

[Yureak]

Go buy AK500N loh, AIO.

Theorectically speaking wouldnt a phone with lineout + dac and amp be much better compared to the tiny enclosed dap dac/amp combo?

Its like a proper dedicated one whereas in the dap it seems like a compromise solution

This is only a niche problem we are facing because mp3 players as we know it are essentially dead so i think iriver is pricing their "audiophile" daps so expensive to milk this niche market because they cant cover the old mp3 player market

I dont think the chip inside or the housing or firmware for any dap seems modern enough to be included in a phone or should it command a price double that of flagship phones like the iphone or note4

 

[alamakazim]

Theorectically speaking wouldnt a phone with lineout + dac and amp be much better compared to the tiny enclosed dap dac/amp combo?

Its like a proper dedicated one whereas in the dap it seems like a compromise solution

u got a good point there

but the phone wasn't never meant to be a transport, people just try to make it a transport

people can also use ak240 optical out to chord hugo + amp... still dedicated parts

 

[adriannoob]

u got a good point there

but the phone wasn't never meant to be a transport, people just try to make it a transport

people can also use ak240 optical out to chord hugo + amp... still dedicated parts

who would do that........so moneyish

 

[alamakazim]

This is only a niche problem we are facing because mp3 players as we know it are essentially dead so i think iriver is pricing their "audiophile" daps so expensive to milk this niche market because they cant cover the old mp3 player market

I dont think the chip inside or the housing or firmware for any dap seems modern enough to be included in a phone or should it command a price double that of flagship phones like the iphone or note4

audio is like that one mah, cd player range from $300- to $30k

is not about the CPU power or ram

is about the sound... u put in the latest DAC or custom DAC, market it nice nice, put a high price... nobody is forcing u to buy a ak240 .... a fiio x1 x3 is excellent

the crazy thing about audio, it has infinite possibilities, u look at a frequency response graph. they change a little bit.... sound changes

so new product come out... so if u are those that have money and always thinking to upgrade... u fall into this trap

but in cpu power... is easily measured... by a set of numbers.... just need to powerful... but then powerful means good? like iphone.... not powerful but is fast

 

[iAHBEE]

Gonna buy a uerm to pair with my iphone later this yr

 

[xuan87]

Theorectically speaking wouldnt a phone with lineout + dac and amp be much better compared to the tiny enclosed dap dac/amp combo?

Its like a proper dedicated one whereas in the dap it seems like a compromise solution

This is only a niche problem we are facing because mp3 players as we know it are essentially dead so i think iriver is pricing their "audiophile" daps so expensive to milk this niche market because they cant cover the old mp3 player market

I dont think the chip inside or the housing or firmware for any dap seems modern enough to be included in a phone or should it command a price double that of flagship phones like the iphone or note4

Actually I disagree with you here although it may be just because I'm misunderstand you.

Comparing a smartphone lineout to DAC/Amp against a DAP lineout to DAC/Amp, I will still say the smartphone is a compromise solution because even an audiophile will use the smartphone for other functions, such as surfing net, navigation, call and texting etc.

What most audiophiles (or at least me) are trying to aim for is to look for a DAP that is good enough for us to avoid carrying around a stack, be it a smartphone + DAC/Amp, or DAP + DAC/Amp. Of course, some people will prefer to carry a stack because of their own reasons (cost, can't find the DAP that they want etc).

Iriver, as well as many other DAP manufacturers, are pricing their DAPs so high is simply because they are much better music players than smartphones. They can play more formats (FLAC, ALAC, DSD etc), they have much better DAC chips, and amp designs, and most of them will sound much better than the headphone out from MOST smartphones.

At the end of the day, we audiophiles will have to weight the high cost of such DAPs against its convenience. Some will prefer to pay more to play their DSD files, some will prefer to pay less and instead carry around their stacks etc... it all boils down to individual needs and preferences.

 

[Seth Lee]

who would do that........so moneyish

A Toyota Vios has 4 wheels and gets you from point A to point B for 120K, while the Lamborghini Aventador does the same for 1.5Mil.

By your reasoning, all car owners in Singapore are mad!

A 2007 released Star Wars Millenium Falcon by Lego is going for USD5000 now.

There are a reasonable amount of people running around with AK240 > Chord Hugo, no big deal.

 

[rickysio]

Theorectically speaking wouldnt a phone with lineout + dac and amp be much better compared to the tiny enclosed dap dac/amp combo?

Its like a proper dedicated one whereas in the dap it seems like a compromise solution

This is only a niche problem we are facing because mp3 players as we know it are essentially dead so i think iriver is pricing their "audiophile" daps so expensive to milk this niche market because they cant cover the old mp3 player market

I dont think the chip inside or the housing or firmware for any dap seems modern enough to be included in a phone or should it command a price double that of flagship phones like the iphone or note4

You do know that Samsung phones running Exynos processors have a separate Wolfson DAC chip?

You do know many Vivo phones (or the Meizu MX4 Pro) have an ESS9018K2M chip inside? The iBasso DX90 features 2 of these chips as DAC chips.

Are you seriously stupid, or are you stupid.

 

[Guan22]

A Toyota Vios has 4 wheels and gets you from point A to point B for 120K, while the Lamborghini Aventador does the same for 1.5Mil.

By your reasoning, all car owners in Singapore are mad!

A 2007 released Star Wars Millenium Falcon by Lego is going for USD5000 now.

There are a reasonable amount of people running around with AK240 > Chord Hugo, no big deal.

That's what I call silly money. An AK240 with Hugo combo is $5,700.
One could get a budget speaker setup for that kind of money and sound infinitely better.

 

[iAHBEE]

That's what I call silly money. An AK240 with Hugo combo is $5,700.
One could get a budget speaker setup for that kind of money and sound infinitely better.

Buy ueprm best liao

 

[Guan22]

Buy ueprm best liao

Nah, will be laying off portable for a while to concentrate on desktop setup.
No more CIEMs or cables. Maybe if the right DAP comes along.