DAP vs Iphone or Iphone + DAC

[Dysprosium]

Actually i think if its a line-out and output to a high quality dac like the ifi idsd micro or schiit bifrost and followed by a capable amp i cant imagine why it would be inferior to any dap. A transport would just be a transport imo

but that said i guess ymmv we are all learning here

Oh, I'm referring to those stuff not being amp-ed or 'dac-ed', just playing your IEMs solely through the h/p out.

They sound just as good as playing them out from those expensive DAPs, if not better, from the tests done by some on Head-Fi.

This is something that I'm keen to test out.

 

[Yureak]

Oh, I'm referring to those stuff not being amp-ed or 'dac-ed', just playing your IEMs solely through the h/p out.

They sound just as good as playing them out from those expensive DAPs, if not better, from the tests done by some on Head-Fi.

This is something that I'm keen to test out.

ah definitely for those there is a huge difference for sure

 

[adriannoob]

welll...... i think it's all comes down to, how sensitive is your ear. hahaha

 

[Dysprosium]

ah definitely for those there is a huge difference for sure

welll...... i think it's all comes down to, how sensitive is your ear. hahaha

Take a look at this interesting & 'groundbreaking' thread (sure to ruffle a few feathers):

[Multi-Review] Hifiman HM901, Fiio X5, Sony ZX1, Hisound Studio 3rd Anv, iPhone 4

Mimouille (a HF member), owner of several high-end DAPs & C/IEMs, comprehensively dismissed those findings, but..

Dear All,

Following a conversation I had on this thread (Best mid price IEMs), I decided to test a bit between some of my DAPS, namely my Ipod Classic 6th Gen, my RWAK240, my Cowon P1 and my HM901 Minibox card. I did not include the Tera because it only pairs well with the SE5 and it is a PITA to navigate in a test.

I spent roughly an hour doing this, using FLAC on all DAPs, except 256 VBR MP3 on the IPC. The two iems I used are Spiral Ears SE5 and Hidition NT6. I was very careful to do some volume matching, which was no so easy on the 901, and preferably with low volume, because this is often how I listen.

The results are quite simple: the differences are quite small. I doubt I could differentiate in a blind test. The most obvious was 901 vs. IPC, more crisp sound, but I am still not sure I could differentiate in a blind test.

The 901 is a bit more powerful than the others, and thus drives even iems with slightly more authority.

The 901 and P1 vs. the IPC have slightly better dynamic range.

The boutique all have very slightly better clarity, and a deeper soundstage (main difference overall).

The top performer is still is the 901, but by a very small margin.

As a side note, on my iems, I hear absolutely no difference between the balanced and unbalanced mode of my RWAK240.

Conclusion, if I had to rate sound, from this test I would say:

HM901 Minibox :95/100, Cowon and RWAK240: 93 and IPC : 90.

If I rate them by value (price vs. SQ and ergonomics) then IPC > Cowon P1 > HM901 > RWAK240 (HM901 is less ergonomic but much cheaper than RWAK240 and slightly better sounding).

I buy boutique DAPs also for other reasons than SQ, which is why I am not so shocked : capacity, getting out of itunes, and mostly just because I am a geek who likes new pretty and nicely sounding stuff.

People do not yell at me:
What I consider insignificant differences might be huge to you
I do not listen to "audiophile" music on HD or DSD. I just listen to music, so it might be different for you

It has been a while since I wanted to clear some gear....well I suppose the HM901 might go. I was waiting for the 901S but I do not like the look. I like the P1 and the 240 is nice looking to me, plus it pairs very well with the REF1.

But honestly if there was a 256GB Flac playing IPC, I might let them all go. And I might still buy the Lotoo because I like it

@jelt @kenz

Thoughts?

 

[kenz]

Copy and quoted from the article:

I've personally wanted to see something like this for a long time now. As a techie, I've long been intrigued by the idea of these top of the line DAPs. They bring with them the promise of high level engineering that will make the most out of your files and headphones. I've primarily used my iPhone 4 as my main DAP for the last 4 years. I've found it extremely reliable and great sounding, with its nearly non-existent output impedance and a very flat signature. I've ventured into the land of audiophile DAPs before, with gear from companies like Hisound, Hifiman, Sony, and Sandisk. Time after time, I was disappointed. Not one of them sounded better than my iP4, and some of them sounded worse. Here's what I heard, and didn't hear: 1) I heard no "extra detail" from any of the DAPs...not even from the iPhone. 2) The iPhone was consistently the flattest of the bunch, with the exception of the Clip+ (which is a wonderful DAP as well). 3) The differences were rather small, and came mostly from the sound signature differences. 4) Things like noise levels, output impedance, and other issues are what make or break a DAP.

Referring to the bold statements, there are already preconceived bias, preference and a narrow definition of test to determine a premeditated result. Basically, it is one person's pursuit to prove his insights. The reader, can choose to accept the article as the absolute truth or disregard the findings of one individual, as having to prove a point (to oneself perhaps?).

At the end of the day, it is the opinion of one individual.

This topic has been debated to death, resurrected and beaten to death, rinse and repeat.

So here's my 2 cents in the matter.

There are millions of audio consumers, each with their own unique hearing ability (cos no 2 pair of ears are alike) AND preference.
There are countless audio equipment out there and the permutations in their combinations are even more countless.
Add the human and electronic variables into the mix, there are millions more probable preference out there. Not to mention the human degree of sensitivity of hearing (we all have a certain degree of deafness), the electronic components determining optimal performance at varying levels (volume being just one area).

Having said the above, how can there be ONE universal truth to audio 101?

The Golden Rule of audio hobby:
Go and listen for yourself. No one can determine what's best to your ears except yourself. That will always hold true.

I hope this answers any curiosity arising from this article.

 

[Seth Lee]

"Mimouille (a HF member), owner of several high-end DAPs & C/IEMs, comprehensively dismissed those findings, but.."

Have direct access to a really wide range of audio gears from portable to desktop, mostly top tier, on a daily basis. Do have multiple TBs worth of high-resolution files including DSD ranging from popular tracks to exotics. Still not in a position to make sweeping statements like this. Mimouille is simply a polemic. A street fighter looking for a fight on forums, that is all!

 

[adriannoob]

is it all right i laughed while reading?

 

[Dysprosium]

-snip-

Aren't you curious to conduct a blind-test to really see if his findings hold some truth to it? A few (those with boutique DAPs) were obviously skeptical at start, but when they did those tests, the differences they initially perceived were much smaller than imagined.

"Mimouille (a HF member), owner of several high-end DAPs & C/IEMs, comprehensively dismissed those findings, but.."

Have direct access to a really wide range of audio gears from portable to desktop, mostly top tier, on a daily basis. Do have multiple TBs worth of high-resolution files including DSD ranging from popular tracks to exotics. Still not in a position to make sweeping statements like this. Mimouille is simply a polemic. A street fighter looking for a fight on forums, that is all!

He's not the one who started the thread. He's the one who dismissed that Head-Fier (eke), who started that 'controversial' thread.

He went on to conduct the test & that's what he found out, as quoted above.

I don't have an iPhone 6/6+, so I'm curious to see how it sounds, as compared to a higher-end DAP, playing similar tracks, with the same IEM.

 

[kenz]

Aren't you curious to conduct a blind-test to really see if his findings hold some truth to it? A few (those with boutique DAPs) were obviously skeptical at start, but when they did those tests, the differences they initially perceived were much smaller than imagined.

Not in the least actually.

I try, i like, i buy it.
New player comes, repeat the above. Result: If better, replace. If worse, skip.
Result is subjective, and more of preference and my own opinion if the new is better than the old, for various reasons.

Life is too short to be doing test after test to prove a point.

Haven't we had enough tests and exams as kids?

 

[Zantesuken]

Aiyo why so serious? U song u buy dap U song u use phone as dap. no rules set. Why so much hating or rather debating?

 

[Seth Lee]

I don't have an iPhone 6/6+, so I'm curious to see how it sounds, as compared to a higher-end DAP, playing similar tracks, with the same IEM.

Using an iPhone 6 since launch, an Apple fan boy here. With the same IEM, you can actually tell the difference even comparing even with the FiiO X1. Both playing .wav (16bit/44KHz). Considering age very close to SG50, definitely not the golden ears type.

 

[GotBeOwned]

Super Walkman and Super sound still can't beat this
I'm still using the above leh how???

can't beat me, still have the 1st gen

 

[adriannoob]

Super Walkman and Super sound still can't beat this
I'm still using the above leh how???

OMG!!! we have a star lord here!!!!

 

[rickysio]

Using an iPhone 6 since launch, an Apple fan boy here. With the same IEM, you can actually tell the difference even comparing even with the FiiO X1. Both playing .wav (16bit/44KHz). Considering age very close to SG50, definitely not the golden ears type.

FiiO X1 isn't exactly the hardest player to blind test... Just need to look out for rolled off bass and collapsed soundstage