De-dollarization is happening.

NOfLine

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Don't think dollar will go away. Cause alternative is bad for biz.

There will be many other trade currencies or even bartering oil for example depending what zone you buying or selling at.

So de-dollarisation will bring de-coupling into reality. What PAP doesn't want for Sg. Right?
 

bakuten

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no...u all misunderstand what i mean....it's not about being a gold bug or not....basket just means the currency of each country is derived from that basket of commodities vs the productivity of the country instead of deriving through trade deficit vs USD. Our current system is basically country's productivity vs USD(which is derived from petro-dollar system). it's not about advantage or not, more like necessity.

Everything right now is pseudo tied to oil prices due to petro-dollar system. removing USD from the equation does not change anything besides meaning the world will stop subsidizing US govt deficit spending.
 

jericho75

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Inflation mah, sure ppl buy gold for investment portfolio. Just that it's not being used for currency anymore for various good reasons.

not as currency but sure many countries are buying to store value. meaning u dun need to keep usd to store long term. just like u go for tours. u need what currency then just exchange and use it. dun need to keep it.
 

lifezard

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i dunno if ukraine got own us treasuries or not? but i am sure they were not protected.

Well Ukraine got robbed by another bully the US of A has no confidence of whacking up without a few bruises of their own. So they did the next best thing, give Ukraine some of their going to expire toys to hopefully protect themselves and hopefully make the other bully weaker.

Do not have any illusions that those toys are for free. The ukrainians will need to repay later when peacetime comes in one form or another.
 

jericho75

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Well Ukraine got robbed by another bully the US of A has no confidence of whacking up without a few bruises of their own. So they did the next best thing, give Ukraine some of their going to expire toys to hopefully protect themselves and hopefully make the other bully weaker.

Do not have any illusions that those toys are for free. The ukrainians will need to repay later when peacetime comes in one form or another.


So insurance also got limitations one. If against some jia lak one they will say u have to help yoruself
 

Iyarash11

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what else can come from this felle
with ccp printing hundreds of trillions, ask him go use rmb rah
 

Nesplex

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I want him to contest in GE so that Sinkies can vote him out again.
 

Nalgene123

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The US dollar will be the leading international currency out of convenience but other currencies will gain more ground at the expense of US dollar. This is in line with widening challenges to US's global leadership.
The amount to money circulating in the global system is increasing…so even if the USD percentage….but form a value perspective…the amount of USD in the global system is larger than before
 

cal127

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no...u all misunderstand what i mean....it's not about being a gold bug or not....basket just means the currency of each country is derived from that basket of commodities vs the productivity of the country instead of deriving through trade deficit vs USD. Our current system is basically country's productivity vs USD(which is derived from petro-dollar system). it's not about advantage or not, more like necessity.

Everything right now is pseudo tied to oil prices due to petro-dollar system. removing USD from the equation does not change anything besides meaning the world will stop subsidizing US govt deficit spending.

You sound confusing. What do you mean by necessity? Nobody is forcing other countries to use the dollar or buy US securities to fund their deficit spending. So I'm not sure what you mean unless you can explain how your alternative is better.

As an example something bad really did happen like in the 1970s, after the collapse of the US dollar against the German mark, the Swiss franc and the Japanese yen, the dollar continued to be used to settle international payments because the Germans, Swiss and Japanese weren’t prepared to run the deficits that would allow their currencies to be used as a new alternative for non-residents’ global payments. So, to answer your question, after a period of high interest rates, tax increases and spending cuts, the USD ideally would be stabilized and continue to be used for international payments.

Neither taxes nor govt issued securities are necessary to "finance" govt spending btw. When the govt spends more money into the economy than it taxes out (a.k.a. runs a deficit), the non-govt sectors will run an exactly equivalent surplus, also called savings. When the US govt issues securities then for e.g, it is simply trading instantly redeemable, not interest-bearing I.O.U.s (a.k.a. dollars that it spent into the economy) for dated, interest-bearing I.O.U.s (a.k.a. bonds and treasury bills that are paid for by some of those same dollars). The national debt is not inherently bad; it is exactly equivalent to non-govt savings. What needs to be evaluated and debated is what those expenditures into the economy are buying and who is benefitting. And since the govt issues the currency and does not need to finance its expenditures, we should discuss and debate the useful purposes (and there may be some) of govt issued, interesting-bearing securities and how it can benefit those who own them. :s13:
 

bakuten

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You sound confusing. What do you mean by necessity? Nobody is forcing other countries to use the dollar or buy US securities to fund their deficit spending. So I'm not sure what you mean unless you can explain how your alternative is better.

As an example something bad really did happen like in the 1970s, after the collapse of the US dollar against the German mark, the Swiss franc and the Japanese yen, the dollar continued to be used to settle international payments because the Germans, Swiss and Japanese weren’t prepared to run the deficits that would allow their currencies to be used as a new alternative for non-residents’ global payments. So, to answer your question, after a period of high interest rates, tax increases and spending cuts, the USD ideally would be stabilized and continue to be used for international payments.

Neither taxes nor govt issued securities are necessary to "finance" govt spending btw. When the govt spends more money into the economy than it taxes out (a.k.a. runs a deficit), the non-govt sectors will run an exactly equivalent surplus, also called savings. When the US govt issues securities then for e.g, it is simply trading instantly redeemable, not interest-bearing I.O.U.s (a.k.a. dollars that it spent into the economy) for dated, interest-bearing I.O.U.s (a.k.a. bonds and treasury bills that are paid for by some of those same dollars). The national debt is not inherently bad; it is exactly equivalent to non-govt savings. What needs to be evaluated and debated is what those expenditures into the economy are buying and who is benefitting. And since the govt issues the currency and does not need to finance its expenditures, we should discuss and debate the useful purposes (and there may be some) of govt issued, interesting-bearing securities and how it can benefit those who own them. :s13:
necessity meaning countries that have been ostracized by financial sanctions thru SWIFT are getting so numerous that they are able to trade among themselves and slowly remove themselves from the existing system while building an alternative(may not be good/stable but it won't stop them from pushing ahead due to the sanctions)

actually it's more like the rest of the world esp the middle-east entered into agreement with US to out-source most/part of the security of their countries to the US ba? hence alot damage of the "deficit spending" on the USD is also out-sourced to these countries who bought US bonds until they decide not to....which will then come back in the form of inflation to those who still remain in the system as the dollars get sold off.

it's funny you talk about the collapse in 1970s....coz that was exactly a monetary system change event....from a Pseudo-gold standard(Bretton-woods agreement) to a petro-dollar standard signed into law by Nixon in 1971. And roughly 40 years before that was a move from gold standard to pseudo-gold standard through USD. And roughly 40 years before that was a move away from the pound sterling which was a bi-metallic standard with silver being the main metal used instead of gold. so from 1971 till today....it's already closing in on 50 years.....it is not surprising if another monetary change is in the works....it is nothing new....it just looks different and works different due to modern day tech available today.

national debt is not inherently bad is a fallacy.....everybody loses to inflation except the folks who get their hands on the newly minted $$ first....which is why in SG we have laws that forbids politicians from running deficits unless both president and parliament authorizes it like the past few years.
 

Bumperbee88

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Well Ukraine got robbed by another bully the US of A has no confidence of whacking up without a few bruises of their own. So they did the next best thing, give Ukraine some of their going to expire toys to hopefully protect themselves and hopefully make the other bully weaker.

Do not have any illusions that those toys are for free. The ukrainians will need to repay later when peacetime comes in one form or another.
Terms and conditions behind doors. No free ride in this world.
 

cal127

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necessity meaning countries that have been ostracized by financial sanctions thru SWIFT are getting so numerous that they are able to trade among themselves and slowly remove themselves from the existing system while building an alternative(may not be good/stable but it won't stop them from pushing ahead due to the sanctions)

I find it humorous really. Some failed African states and some in the mediterranean. Namely Russsia and Iran. You don't need to get kicked out to start another alternative. China started CIPS and they are free to join. You think we shouldn't ostracize Russian/Iran...why? You support evil regimes who terrorize and invade other countries to contunue using SWIFT system to fund their activities? The BRICS nations are also expanding, with some very influential country additions recently. These nations are also buying more gold in your basket than the western nations can afford. Recently, India took delivery/possession of 100 tonnes of Gold that was stored in London. They have BRICS bank too for lending to member countries. They are not going to sit idle with all the above in their plans. It won't be a frontal challenge to the dollar. But it will come and dollar dominance will take another knock. These countries are growing much faster than the western world with the population to boot. :s13:

actually it's more like the rest of the world esp the middle-east entered into agreement with US to out-source most/part of the security of their countries to the US ba? hence alot damage of the "deficit spending" on the USD is also out-sourced to these countries who bought US bonds until they decide not to....which will then come back in the form of inflation to those who still remain in the system as the dollars get sold off.

I already expained deficit spending and that's not how it works. That's just the cherry. Main reason it helps keep a country's pegged currency stable.

The interesting question is whether the West showing their willingness to use the dollar hegemony as a strategic weapon in political battles will spur on countries like China on the road to Central Bank Digital Currency and this CBDC as an alternative to the dollar. I will not be surprised if the dollar sanctions will inspire the Chinese to speed up their development of a CBDC which will be a useful and tempting alternative to settlement in dollars. So it will not be a question of giving up but a question of when it will be taken away. :s13:


it's funny you talk about the collapse in 1970s....coz that was exactly a monetary system change event....from a Pseudo-gold standard(Bretton-woods agreement) to a petro-dollar standard signed into law by Nixon in 1971. And roughly 40 years before that was a move from gold standard to pseudo-gold standard through USD. And roughly 40 years before that was a move away from the pound sterling which was a bi-metallic standard with silver being the main metal used instead of gold. so from 1971 till today....it's already closing in on 50 years.....it is not surprising if another monetary change is in the works....it is nothing new....it just looks different and works different due to modern day tech available today.

I know this and noted. All you have said is its been 50 years therefore everyone should expect a change even when there's no better alternative. Change for the sake of changing. How is yours better? When there is a trade surplus there must be a deficit somewhere. Like I said: those countries are free to choose what currency to trade in. Most chose to use dollar because they don't want to run a deficit. :s13:

national debt is not inherently bad is a fallacy.....everybody loses to inflation except the folks who get their hands on the newly minted $$ first....which is why in SG we have laws that forbids politicians from running deficits unless both president and parliament authorizes it like the past few years.

Its a free market. You can't blame the dollar for causing inflation alone. Ignoring what's going on in the rest of the world. The fact that COVID happened and came out of China that dusrupted the supply chain. Didn't Europe print money? Didnt Singapore? China today by far is the largest printer of currency. Didn't Europe eagerly agree, if not lead the way, on sanctioning Russia for its blatant act of aggression against Ukraine to kick them out of SWIFT? Isn't it China that is heavily subsidizing and supporting it's "picked winners" that is extremely unfair to trade? Of course the US is acting for its own interest. What country does not? But it's own interest is often aligned with the rest of the non-aggressive world. Sorry that the US isn't energy dependent on OPEC anymore. Again, all of these problems actually originated outside of the US. Don't hate the US for being the "leader" in cleaning up the mess, and for any missteps to be felt by others that also contributed to inflation. Don't pretend Europe, China et al. are innocent victims here. A little misplaced frustration is common enough, but it is entirely irrelevant to the big picture at hand.

For the fact that there are winners and losers within countries, not just between countries. e.g. US trade deficits benefit part of the US economy and certain segments of the US economy, not the whole US economy. The same is true with respect to surplus countries.

To the extent, if I might add, that trade surpluses are used to build up productive investment in surplus generating countries, these surpluses increase global wealth. :s13:
 

bakuten

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I find it humorous really. Some failed African states and some in the mediterranean. Namely Russsia and Iran. You don't need to get kicked out to start another alternative. China started CIPS and they are free to join. You think we shouldn't ostracize Russian/Iran...why? You support evil regimes who terrorize and invade other countries to contunue using SWIFT system to fund their activities? The BRICS nations are also expanding, with some very influential country additions recently. These nations are also buying more gold in your basket than the western nations can afford. Recently, India took delivery/possession of 100 tonnes of Gold that was stored in London. They have BRICS bank too for lending to member countries. They are not going to sit idle with all the above in their plans. It won't be a frontal challenge to the dollar. But it will come and dollar dominance will take another knock. These countries are growing much faster than the western world with the population to boot. :s13:



I already expained deficit spending and that's not how it works. That's just the cherry. Main reason it helps keep a country's pegged currency stable.

The interesting question is whether the West showing their willingness to use the dollar hegemony as a strategic weapon in political battles will spur on countries like China on the road to Central Bank Digital Currency and this CBDC as an alternative to the dollar. I will not be surprised if the dollar sanctions will inspire the Chinese to speed up their development of a CBDC which will be a useful and tempting alternative to settlement in dollars. So it will not be a question of giving up but a question of when it will be taken away. :s13:




I know this and noted. All you have said is its been 50 years therefore everyone should expect a change even when there's no better alternative. Change for the sake of changing. How is yours better? When there is a trade surplus there must be a deficit somewhere. Like I said: those countries are free to choose what currency to trade in. Most chose to use dollar because they don't want to run a deficit. :s13:



Its a free market. You can't blame the dollar for causing inflation alone. Ignoring what's going on in the rest of the world. The fact that COVID happened and came out of China that dusrupted the supply chain. Didn't Europe print money? Didnt Singapore? China today by far is the largest printer of currency. Didn't Europe eagerly agree, if not lead the way, on sanctioning Russia for its blatant act of aggression against Ukraine to kick them out of SWIFT? Isn't it China that is heavily subsidizing and supporting it's "picked winners" that is extremely unfair to trade? Of course the US is acting for its own interest. What country does not? But it's own interest is often aligned with the rest of the non-aggressive world. Sorry that the US isn't energy dependent on OPEC anymore. Again, all of these problems actually originated outside of the US. Don't hate the US for being the "leader" in cleaning up the mess, and for any missteps to be felt by others that also contributed to inflation. Don't pretend Europe, China et al. are innocent victims here. A little misplaced frustration is common enough, but it is entirely irrelevant to the big picture at hand.

For the fact that there are winners and losers within countries, not just between countries. e.g. US trade deficits benefit part of the US economy and certain segments of the US economy, not the whole US economy. The same is true with respect to surplus countries.

To the extent, if I might add, that trade surpluses are used to build up productive investment in surplus generating countries, these surpluses increase global wealth. :s13:
well....i'm just stating facts. how does that mean I am supporting Russia just because i stated the fact that SWIFT is weaponized by the US(and the western world by proxy) against more and more countries?

the problem with using SWIFT as a weapon comes when the ostracized economies becomes the majority rather than a tiny minority, at that point, US(and western world by proxy) becomes the ones who get ostracized.

actually other than that, it seems like we are in agreement?
building up productive investments using surplus is basically dumping fiat for hard assets that generate productivity is one of the ways to hedge oneself from any monetary shifts. i'm not even sure what you are arguing about at this point.
 
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