Dependents Protection Scheme

[sohguanh]

Use cash.
Else don't buy.
Should be insured $70k not $55k till 65.

Can I check for your case at what age you stop paying? I like the idea it deduct from CPF (cannot touch) monies to pay premiums but the jump is too much especially if you not working after age 55. No employer contribution means you pay out of your own. Furthermore reduce 70K some more!

 

[reddevil0728]

Use cash.
Else don't buy.
Should be insured $70k not $55k till 65.

No?

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/member/faq/a...mium-do-i-need-to-pay-to-be-covered-under-dps

 

[reddevil0728]

Can I check for your case at what age you stop paying? I like the idea it deduct from CPF (cannot touch) monies to pay premiums but the jump is too much especially if you not working after age 55. No employer contribution means you pay out of your own. Furthermore reduce 70K some more!

If you aren’t working after 55, you technically wouldn’t need DPS.

the purpose of DPS is such that when you are in your economic productive years, your dependants are dependent on your income to survive but you pass away.

if you retire already, and no income, there’s nothing for your dependents to depend on you for. So there’s need to have DPS.

 

[qhong61]

No?

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/member/faq/a...mium-do-i-need-to-pay-to-be-covered-under-dps

I see.

 

[qhong61]

Can I check for your case at what age you stop paying? I like the idea it deduct from CPF (cannot touch) monies to pay premiums but the jump is too much especially if you not working after age 55. No employer contribution means you pay out of your own. Furthermore reduce 70K some more!

Still paying.
Nominated to charity.

 

[xiaosinsinful]

This kind of argument I read 20+ years ago so not new to me. But key is I survive until now so means if I opt for term when I was young that time, I rugi based on premiums paid compared to what I paid using CPF. Now for my case is as I get older even the CPF premiums paid is no longer cheap which is why my earlier post anyone intend to keep paying. Also factor in if I retire at age 55 how to find monies to keep paying until age 65? Hmmmm

… did you not read my post and just want leave a comment?

now you are presented with 2 options and I have already clearly spelt out the cost and pros and cons

now you need to decide which one is more suitable

if you want a stable fixed cost, go for the term when young and it will be fixed all the way up to 70yo, FIXED means no change in premium no matter how old you are

you want high coverage, cheap, fixed premium , using CPF, coverage all till 100yo? No such product, you open insurance and come out with that product I’m sure everyone also want

 

[xiaosinsinful]

If you aren’t working after 55, you technically wouldn’t need DPS.

the purpose of DPS is such that when you are in your economic productive years, your dependants are dependent on your income to survive but you pass away.

if you retire already, and no income, there’s nothing for your dependents to depend on you for. So there’s need to have DPS.

By that logic, why is DPS opt in?

there are many singles around that have no dependent, why not make it opt in when someone has a dependent?

 

[reddevil0728]

By that logic, why is DPS opt in?

there are many singles around that have no dependent, why not make it opt in when someone has a dependent?

I’m not policy maker, can’t speak for them.

but my hypothesis based on the context I have is this…

(Not in any particular order and ideally should be read together)

- it only gets triggered when there’s the first working cpf contribution, which suggest that you start to be economic productive, hence got an income that dependant(s) can supposedly depend on

- premium is cheap and the only insurance? That can be paid via cpf oa. If it’s painful for the member to even pay that, then then member ought to take some personal responsibility to cancel it

- if the member can’t even take personal responsibility to cancel if it’s so painful or detest it so much, it’s very unlikely that the member will take personal responsibility in planning to make sure any potential dependant(s) he/she has will be take care in the unfortunate event that he/she were to pass on.

- if the argument is that the member will not benefit from paying the premium if member were to pass on without any dependant(s) then it’s not even a concern in the first place, because a dead person wouldn’t benefit from any earthly money that’s left or the opportunity cost of paying the premium

- I hazard a guess based on multitude of basis that most people tend to not have personal responsibility. Even for those who are super wealthy. Only a small minority tend to pay close attention to such thing. If they were to make it opt in, how many would actually do so?

- most of the time people don’t see a need to get insurance until is too late. Imagine some irresponsible person don’t opt in when it is logical to do so, and pass on, then the dependant(s) are left to fend for themselves and the state might need to step in to take care of them which means tax payers would end up being responsible.

- had it been opt out, then those dependant(s) will end up getting something that they didn’t even realise they will get, and reduce their financial hardship.

- policymakers/politicians bang on the fact that there are enough logical people around to know that what they do is right and to keep them in power, than to kow tow to a those who are already pissed by cpf. So introducing this opt out in terms of cost benefit analysis is better than not doing it

 

[lzydata]

By that logic, why is DPS opt in?

there are many singles around that have no dependent, why not make it opt in when someone has a dependent?

There are still such things as final medical expenses and funeral expenses. Even without any dependents, it still costs money to leave this world. DPS is really minimal and affordable life + TPD coverage - just try to get anything comparable in the open market.

 

[reddevil0728]

There are still such things as final medical expenses and funeral expenses. Even without any dependents, it still costs money to leave this world. DPS is really minimal and affordable life + TPD coverage - just try to get anything comparable in the open market.

But tbh, if there’s no dependant(s) no NOK etc, even if one is broke, that’s not the member’s concern about final medical expenses and funeral expenses right?

 

[exterminazn]

But tbh, if there’s no dependant(s) no NOK etc, even if one is broke, that’s not the member’s concern about final medical expenses and funeral expenses right?

That’s why dps can be opted out

 

[reddevil0728]

That’s why dps can be opted out

Uhuh.

but that’s a different point

 

[exterminazn]

Uhuh.

but that’s a different point

Isn’t the discussion on why dps is auto enrolled for everyone despite the individual situation?

 

[lzydata]

But tbh, if there’s no dependant(s) no NOK etc, even if one is broke, that’s not the member’s concern about final medical expenses and funeral expenses right?

Speaking individualistically yes, but we do live in a society, and ultimately somebody has to pay for it, so it is quite reasonable to expect everyone to contribute something even if for their own sake. And these are people who earned at least some income for some time, not the destitute.

 

[reddevil0728]

Isn’t the discussion on why dps is auto enrolled for everyone despite the individual situation?

then you quoted the wrong post?

Speaking individualistically yes, but we do live in a society, and ultimately somebody has to pay for it, so it is quite reasonable to expect everyone to contribute something even if for their own sake. And these are people who earned at least some income for some time, not the destitute.

ya, but is not the concern of the dead.

 

[lzydata]

On the issue of opt-in versus opt-out, perhaps separate but related is the issue of the compulsory contribution to one's "ethnic self-help group" i.e. CDAC, Mendaki, Sinda and Eurasian Association. The absolute amount to be contributed is lowest for Chinese and higher for the rest. Some people are upset about this and do not want to be part of this, so rightly they should opt out.

Even things like organ transplantation too are opt-out. Because society - in the form of the government - thinks that on balance it is more important to achieve these social goals over the individual freedom.

 

[reddevil0728]

On the issue of opt-in versus opt-out, perhaps separate but related is the issue of the compulsory contribution to one's "ethnic self-help group" i.e. CDAC, Mendaki, Sinda and Eurasian Association. The absolute amount to be contributed is lowest for Chinese and higher for the rest. Some people are upset about this and do not want to be part of this, so rightly they should opt out.

Even things like organ transplantation too are opt-out. Because society - in the form of the government - thinks that on balance it is more important to achieve these social goals over the individual freedom.

And there’s option for individual freedom by allowing opt out

 

[BBCWatcher]

There are still such things as final medical expenses and funeral expenses. Even without any dependents, it still costs money to leave this world. DPS is really minimal and affordable life + TPD coverage - just try to get anything comparable in the open market.

But tbh, if there’s no dependant(s) no NOK etc, even if one is broke, that’s not the member’s concern about final medical expenses and funeral expenses right?

Speaking individualistically yes, but we do live in a society, and ultimately somebody has to pay for it, so it is quite reasonable to expect everyone to contribute something even if for their own sake. And these are people who earned at least some income for some time, not the destitute.

The DPS is tied to CPF. Coverage only starts when the person starts making CPF contributions, and the premiums are deducted from CPF (OA). As a consequence this age bracket is largely not destitute. It's working and making CPF contributions. CPF balances don't disappear upon early death. In fact, the balances are that much higher if they aren't paying for the DPS.

By the way, even if you'd like to shield the government from paying for your post-life expenses it seems that the government doesn't. Private charities do when an utterly destitute member of society passes on. Also, the minimum cost to dispose of a dead human body in Singapore (legally) appears to be $420. That's $100 for cremation and $320 for inland ash scattering. Everything else is optional. (Ash scattering at sea is only slightly more expensive at about $500 all-in.)

Most people are going to have at least $420 of net residual wealth. You don't need life insurance for that even if you want to avoid the risk of burdening a private charity after you pass on. Even a $500 Singapore Savings Bond would get the job done.

 

[lzydata]

The DPS is tied to CPF. Coverage only starts when the person starts making CPF contributions, and the premiums are deducted from CPF (OA). As a consequence this age bracket is largely not destitute. It's working and making CPF contributions. CPF balances don't disappear upon early death. In fact, the balances are that much higher if they aren't paying for the DPS.

By the way, even if you'd like to shield the government from paying for your post-life expenses it seems that the government doesn't. Private charities do when an utterly destitute member of society passes on. Also, the minimum cost to dispose of a dead human body in Singapore (legally) appears to be $420. That's $100 for cremation and $320 for inland ash scattering. Everything else is optional. (Ash scattering at sea is only slightly more expensive at about $500 all-in.)

Most people are going to have at least $420 of net residual wealth. You don't need life insurance for that even if you want to avoid the risk of burdening a private charity after you pass on. Even a $500 Singapore Savings Bond would get the job done.

The numbers you are quoting has to be the bare minimum for just some of the red tape. Not realistic.

I also do not think that when someone passes away, all you need to do is dispose of the body with $420. Seriously?

According to some estimates, cremation without a funeral in Singapore costs around S$1,000 to S$1,300.

As for funerals, depending on the religion, or lack of, they can cost anywhere between S$4,000 to S$6,500.

https://mothership.sg/2019/02/singapore-funeral-parlour-free/
Incidentally, not so long ago, an undertaker known for providing free funerals for prominent and/or destitute cases was taken to court for tax evasion.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singap...-evasion-failing-to-register-business-for-gst

 

[qhong61]

By that logic, why is DPS opt in?

there are many singles around that have no dependent, why not make it opt in when someone has a dependent?

In case of permanent disability.