Dependents Protection Scheme

xiaosinsinful

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If you aren’t working after 55, you technically wouldn’t need DPS.

the purpose of DPS is such that when you are in your economic productive years, your dependants are dependent on your income to survive but you pass away.

if you retire already, and no income, there’s nothing for your dependents to depend on you for. So there’s need to have DPS.
why are you contradicting yourself?

first you said “if you not working, you don’t need DPS

next you said:
the purpose of DPS is such that when you are in your economic productive years, your dependants are dependent on your income to survive but you pass away.
if you retire already, and no income, there’s nothing for your dependents to depend on you for. So there’s need to have DPS.

what has a person economic years and whether he got income or not determine his/her need for DPS? I don’t get why “if you are working you need DPS, if you not working you don’t need DPS” part of the argument

it’s possible that person is not working/retired but children are still studying hence “dependent“ hence DPS is still useful

for me is very easy to define. do you have dependents or not full stop (Regardless what age you are, if you are working and have income or not etc etc)
 

reddevil0728

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why are you contradicting yourself?

first you said “if you not working, you don’t need DPS

next you said:
the purpose of DPS is such that when you are in your economic productive years, your dependants are dependent on your income to survive but you pass away.
if you retire already, and no income, there’s nothing for your dependents to depend on you for. So there’s need to have DPS.

what has a person economic years and whether he got income or not determine his/her need for DPS? I don’t get why “if you are working you need DPS, if you not working you don’t need DPS” part of the argument

it’s possible that person is not working/retired but children are still studying hence “dependent“ hence DPS is still useful

for me is very easy to define. do you have dependents or not full stop (Regardless what age you are, if you are working and have income or not etc etc)
I don't fully get you, but let me try to see if that's what you mean.

Maybe I was using the terms interchangeably, but let me clarify.

If you are working, and has an income to allow someone to be financially dependent on you, then you should have DPS. Because should you pass away before those people who are financially dependent on your become financially independent, than the money from DPS will tide over time for the period where there's a lost of income.

However, when you retired, you have no income to begin with. As much as there might be people who is financially dependent on you (very young kids you choose to have), then yes they might still be dependent on you, and you just have to have other sources of income to help take care of them maybe through savings.

but strictly, should you have nothing at all, then nobody can be financial dependent on you, and if nobody can be financially dependent on you, there's no need for income replacement in the form of a DPS.
 

BBCWatcher

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The numbers you are quoting has to be the bare minimum for just some of the red tape. Not realistic.
I also do not think that when someone passes away, all you need to do is dispose of the body with $420. Seriously?
The government crematorium costs $100 (adult), and the government cemetery charges $320 for ash scattering in a particular designated area. Do you know of any other minimum expenses?

...But let's suppose you want to double that figure to $840. Are you proposing that people buy an insurance policy to prevent a charity from possibly paying $840 to dispose of their body? How about just keeping $1,000 in a Singapore Savings Bond? (For example.)
According to some estimates, cremation without a funeral in Singapore costs around S$1,000 to S$1,300.
Yes, if you spend more than minimum required. Typical spending is not minimum spending.
As for funerals, depending on the religion, or lack of, they can cost anywhere between S$4,000 to S$6,500.
Yes, and there's no obligation whatsoever to have a funeral.

But OK, let's suppose you want a funeral.(*) It will take you only 7 months earning $2,000 per month to accumulate enough CPF savings to pay for a $5,000 funeral. This is just not a problem requiring life insurance!

(*) You expect other people to hold a funeral where you attend, if you attend, in a casket or urn.
what has a person economic years and whether he got income or not determine his/her need for DPS? I don’t get why “if you are working you need DPS, if you not working you don’t need DPS” part of the argument
The DPS is term life insurance. It pays a death benefit to survivors, a cash benefit. It cannot bring you back.

Aside from the $420+ cost to dispose of your body (legally), once you die you are not a burden on anyone. You no longer need food, clothing, or medical care. Your expenses drop to zero. If you weren't generating any income then nothing changes in that respect either.

If, on the other hand, you are generating an income and using it to support survivors (dependents) then when you die that income stream is lost. If your survivors basic living standards would be seriously negatively impacted — if they wouldn't be able to pay for food, clothing, shelter, or other basic necessities — then a life insurance payout can help. But if they can get by then life insurance isn't needed, and by definition they had to get by when you're retired because you're not helping to support them financially with your income from work. (And when you die they presumably inherit whatever wealth you had accumulated and not spent.)

Isn't this pretty basic? Or is life insurance too confusing? I'm seeing some very strange arguments here trying to justify the need for life insurance even when no need exists.
it’s possible that person is not working/retired but children are still studying hence “dependent“ hence DPS is still useful
No. There's no income loss when the retired person dies, but there is a reduction in household living expenses due to one less mouth to feed. Financially that's helpful, not harmful.
for me is very easy to define. do you have dependents or not full stop (Regardless what age you are, if you are working and have income or not etc etc)
If you have no income from work then whatever family members you have are not your financial dependents. They can't be: you have no income.
 

BBCWatcher

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....OK, now let's illustrate the one exception I can think of. If you're retired, have a single life annuity, and a material part of the life annuity is supporting dependents' basic lifestyles THEN maybe you could make an argument for some life insurance. That's because death terminates the single life annuity income stream, the income stream that one or more people also depend on (besides you). But in this case you'd probably be better off buying a joint/survivor or joint/contingent life annuity if that's an option. That's a life annuity that continues paying as long as your dependent (usually a spouse or partner) lives.
 

xiaosinsinful

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The government crematorium costs $100 (adult), and the government cemetery charges $320 for ash scattering in a particular designated area. Do you know of any other minimum expenses?

...But let's suppose you want to double that figure to $840. Are you proposing that people buy an insurance policy to prevent a charity from possibly paying $840 to dispose of their body? How about just keeping $1,000 in a Singapore Savings Bond? (For example.)

Yes, if you spend more than minimum required. Typical spending is not minimum spending.

Yes, and there's no obligation whatsoever to have a funeral.

But OK, let's suppose you want a funeral.(*) It will take you only 7 months earning $2,000 per month to accumulate enough CPF savings to pay for a $5,000 funeral. This is just not a problem requiring life insurance!

(*) You expect other people to hold a funeral where you attend, if you attend, in a casket or urn.

The DPS is term life insurance. It pays a death benefit to survivors, a cash benefit. It cannot bring you back.

Aside from the $420+ cost to dispose of your body (legally), once you die you are not a burden on anyone. You no longer need food, clothing, or medical care. Your expenses drop to zero. If you weren't generating any income then nothing changes in that respect either.

If, on the other hand, you are generating an income and using it to support survivors (dependents) then when you die that income stream is lost. If your survivors basic living standards would be seriously negatively impacted — if they wouldn't be able to pay for food, clothing, shelter, or other basic necessities — then a life insurance payout can help. But if they can get by then life insurance isn't needed, and by definition they had to get by when you're retired because you're not helping to support them financially with your income from work. (And when you die they presumably inherit whatever wealth you had accumulated and not spent.)

Isn't this pretty basic? Or is life insurance too confusing? I'm seeing some very strange arguments here trying to justify the need for life insurance even when no need exists.

No. There's no income loss when the retired person dies, but there is a reduction in household living expenses due to one less mouth to feed. Financially that's helpful, not harmful.

If you have no income from work then whatever family members you have are not your financial dependents. They can't be: you have no income.
There can be cases that people are retired aka they have enough money but they still have dependents or they are retrenched or they are taking a break or whatever other reasons

won’t this case DPS be useful to them since they still have dependents?

i don’t get why you guys keep on linking working , earning income with DPS

having an income and having a dependent are mutually exclusive

no income does not mean no dependent
 
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BBCWatcher

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There can be cases that people are retired aka they have enough money but they still have dependents or they are retrenched or they are taking a break or whatever other reasons
Retrenched is not the same thing as retired.

And no, not really. When you're (fully) retired there's no income from work. Thus there's no income to replace when a retired person passes on. People living with that retired person are not financial dependents, and that's the only thing an insurance payout provides (financial support).

You could make an argument that if the retired person is providing caregiving services — at home nursing care, for example — then there's some sort of dependency that's comparable to a financial dependency. (Another caregiver could be hired, hypothetically.) But "more information required."
won’t this case DPS be useful to them since they still have dependents?
"Useful" isn't the right word here. The DPS costs money to buy, and money that isn't spent on insurance premiums is also quite useful. The relevant question is whether life insurance (insurance that pays a death benefit to survivors) is necessary in these circumstances. No, not usually.

Besides, most people don't retire until near the end of the DPS term. So it's kind of a moot point since the DPS isn't available (or available very long) to most retired policyholders.
i don’t get why you guys keep on linking working , earning income with DPS
I don't get why you don't. What else does the DPS provide if it pays out? Foot massages?!? It pays money, if it pays. When do you need money? When you don't have enough of it to support a decent, basic lifestyle. When is that? Well it's not when a retiree dies, not usually. When a retiree dies that's ordinarily a good thing financially. It means whatever wealth is left over only has to support the survivors, not the retiree.
having an income and having a dependent are mutually exclusive
No, not really. They go together. If you have no income then how is anyone your financial dependent? Non-trivial caregiving excepted perhaps.
no income does not mean no dependent
Yes, it really does, in general anyway. (The caregiving exception could apply if your survivor has to replace you with paid caregiving.) With no income you're supporting yourself and anyone else from accumulated wealth. If you die then the other people living off that accumulated wealth can live longer on the accumulated wealth thanks to your death.
 

BBCWatcher

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Since a retiree dying "early" is generally financially beneficial for survivors what about a retiree dying "late"? Isn't that the opposite problem, that it's financially bad for survivors? Yes! Is there any insurance available to handle that risk, the risk of living "too long"? Why yes, yes there is: longevity insurance, a.k.a. life annuities. CPF LIFE is the most popular example of longevity insurance in Singapore. In a sense you can think of it as "reverse life insurance."
 

tatose

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Take note that DPS terminates quite early (up to 65 years old).

It is one of the cheaper barebone term life insurance that is payable via CPF-OA.

But it is not the cheapest term life for up to age 65, and the sum assured is limited.

It is meant for people who are gainfully employed (and hence have CPF-OA), but lacks a solid term life plan.
 

reddevil0728

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Isn't this pretty basic? Or is life insurance too confusing? I'm seeing some very strange arguments here trying to justify the need for life insurance even when no need exists.

In case you have not realised yet, maybe that’s where your blind spot is, or your expectation doesn’t align with reality.

It’s definitely not pretty basic, and it can be quite confusing.

People has the perception that there’s windfall effect from life insurance.

It takes time for people to be educated and change their way of thinking.

So let’s keep it to educating rather than disparaging people for not getting it.
 

harky

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want to check this sagain..


this is coverage till age 65

mean if anything happen after 65... i got nth???


even i pay Xxxxxxxxxxx
 

reddevil0728

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want to check this sagain..


this is coverage till age 65

mean if anything happen after 65... i got nth???


even i pay Xxxxxxxxxxx
Technically it just means congrats! You are alive and kicking that your dependants don't have to depend on this payout to tide them over your untimely demise.
 

harky

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Technically it just means congrats! You are alive and kicking that your dependants don't have to depend on this payout to tide them over your untimely demise.
ahhhhhhhh so this insurance will still there or gone
 

reddevil0728

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anyone here opt out DPS?
people who have no financial dependent can technically opt out. even if they have. might actually be worthwhile keeping.

shouldn't opt out on a whim
it is cheap so just pay till 65yo
but the rationale for keeping shouldn't just be cheap ma. it must serve its purpose
 

~sabaisabai~

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people who have no financial dependent can technically opt out. even if they have. might actually be worthwhile keeping.

shouldn't opt out on a whim

but the rationale for keeping shouldn't just be cheap ma. it must serve its purpose
must have the purpose to keep, not because it is so cheap:p
 
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