Desktop 2.0 & 2.1 speaker discussion thread VI [consolidated]

[dreamaurora]

No worries, updated the firmware since I got it. Sounds quite good and not thinking of whether I should add a subwoofer or not. Mostly for music and pc gaming only.

If you can afford it, definitely add a good sub down to road even if your speakers could go quite low. But also must see if your family and neighbours can take it lar.

 

[BanEle]

Thanks LiLAsN. Seems like I have to spend some money on LS50 wireless 2. Sub woofer may have to wait. Lol. Otherwise wife may complain.

 

[dreamaurora]

I'm browsing Fujiya Avic website now and Dali's Epicon range are obscenely cheaper in Japan, 1/3 or 1/4th the local Singapore price.

https://www.fujiya-avic.co.jp/shop/goods/search.aspx?search=x&keyword=dali&search=search

A pair of Epicon 2 only cost $2.5K SGD versus $10k SGD local price, lol. BanEle, you might consider importing this then pair it with an integrated amplifier. It is the flagship bookshelf model for Dali.

 

[wwenze]

The reason for tweeters at ear level is not entirely because of higher directivity... If that alone contributed this much then horizontally we would not have a listening window and reflected sound would not be enjoyable, and we wouldn't be caring about directivity control vs frequency. Which btw, funnily enough, often aims to narrow the tweeter even more than it naturally is lol.

The reason for the narrow vertical window is because this happens when you have point sources arranged in a line:

Which is why sometimes you will see Amir comment in his center channel speaker reviews that the MTM speakers have narrow horizontal directivity.

Additional evidence: Compare vertical vs horizontal directivity of typical two-way speakers. Then look at directivity of LS50. That is the directivity without having to worry about multiple point sources.

 

[GotBetrayed]

If you can afford it, definitely add a good sub down to road even if your speakers could go quite low. But also must see if your family and neighbours can take it lar.

Actually I got 7x Sonos sub gen 3 in my house right now, total have 20 Sonos speakers, no one complain yet so far lol.

Recently bought Klipsch the fives to use for desktop pc use, and also to listen to some music etc, so not sure whether to commit or not. Also, read that Svs has sealed vs ported speakers, I mainly use my sonos setups with my oled TVs for movies, so the fives are just meant to play music and games mainly, not for watching shows. Not sure whether should get SVS SB 1000 pro, 2000 pro or 3000 pro, or micro 3000? Quite confusing for me as I’m new to this.

currently the below are my setup:

3x 65 LG oled TVs (65CX, 65GX, 65G1) with Sonos arc + 2 subwoofers + 2 ones each, all connected to one PS5 each.

1x 48C1 with Sonos beam + sub + 2 one, this one is connected to my gaming PC and PS5.

1x Alienware AW3423 DWF monitor with Klipsch the fives for desktop use in my bedroom as my second pc gaming setup. Wish to mention that this bedroom also has the 65GX tv with 2x Sonos subwoofers inside, for me is I wish to improve the music quality of the fives when I am using this computer as the 2 speakers are left and right of the AW3423DWF, Sonos setup is only good when listening from my bed.

 

[GotBetrayed]

I'm browsing Fujiya Avic website now and Dali's Epicon range are obscenely cheaper in Japan, 1/3 or 1/4th the local Singapore price.

https://www.fujiya-avic.co.jp/shop/goods/search.aspx?search=x&keyword=dali&search=search

A pair of Epicon 2 only cost $2.5K SGD versus $10k SGD local price, lol. BanEle, you might consider importing this then pair it with an integrated amplifier. It is the flagship bookshelf model for Dali.

Sigh…. Audio gear in sg are insanely overpriced. I may ask my in laws to help me ship stuff from JP to sg next time.

 

[dreamaurora]

Actually I got 7x Sonos sub gen 3 in my house right now, total have 20 Sonos speakers, no one complain yet so far lol.

Recently bought Klipsch the fives to use for desktop pc use, and also to listen to some music etc, so not sure whether to commit or not. Also, read that Svs has sealed vs ported speakers, I mainly use my sonos setups with my oled TVs for movies, so the fives are just meant to play music and games mainly, not for watching shows. Not sure whether should get SVS SB 1000 pro, 2000 pro or 3000 pro, or micro 3000? Quite confusing for me as I’m new to this.

currently the below are my setup:

3x 65 LG oled TVs (65CX, 65GX, 65G1) with Sonos arc + 2 subwoofers + 2 ones each, all connected to one PS5 each.

1x 48C1 with Sonos beam + sub + 2 one, this one is connected to my gaming PC and PS5.

1x Alienware AW3423 DWF monitor with Klipsch the fives for desktop use in my bedroom as my second pc gaming setup. Wish to mention that this bedroom also has the 65GX tv with 2x Sonos subwoofers inside, for me is I wish to improve the music quality of the fives when I am using this computer as the 2 speakers are left and right of the AW3423DWF, Sonos setup is only good when listening from my bed.

If space not an issue, sub is of course larger the better. Larger enclosure and bigger magnet in driver will give better sound quality.

So many Sonos and now Fives, think TC Acoustics should give you top fan award, lol. Don't know how old you are, but as I got older got less stamina to play games. Now prefer to sit and read while listening to music. This hobby is addictive once you get started, and get very expensive real quick. Soon you will be like wusplay here who is spending thousands of dollars on stuff like an audiophile ethernet cable, lol.

 

[dreamaurora]

Sigh…. Audio gear in sg are insanely overpriced. I may ask my in laws to help me ship stuff from JP to sg next time.

Actually most of the audio shops do offer discounts from 10% to 30% off the listed price. Think our prices are not so bad compared to western markets though still quite ex.

 

[GotBetrayed]

If space not an issue, sub is of course larger the better. Larger enclosure and bigger magnet in driver will give better sound quality.

So many Sonos and now Fives, think TC Acoustics should give you top fan award, lol. Don't know how old you are, but as I got older got less stamina to play games. Now prefer to sit and read while listening to music. This hobby is addictive once you get started, and get very expensive real quick. Soon you will be like wusplay here who is spending thousands of dollars on stuff like an audiophile ethernet cable, lol.

Ya sia I think I am a top customer from tc acoustics. Haha I old Liao la. Early thirties.

yes I think audio is a very expensive hobby, Adelphi is a dangerous building. Used to buy iems and daps too, have 5x fitear iems

 

[GotBetrayed]

Actually most of the audio shops do offer discounts from 10% to 30% off the listed price. Think our prices are not so bad compared to western markets though still quite ex.

Generally electronics are quite expensive in sg vs US markets. See Svs sb1000 pro is only 500usd, usually go on sale quite often. Here is 1273 sgd lol. And honestly the 2000 pro is only like 100 usd more expensive, here is 1.8k+.

worse is 77-83 inch oled TVs, usa is like way cheaper. 77 inch same gen oled is 2.5k usd here 8.5k sgd, what a joke lol

 

[boxerfan]

Since we are on this topic of pricing... can someone help me understand why is this happening?

• Taking manufacturer list price as a reference ($X)
• Generally, reseller has between 25% to 50% margin (meaning their cost is 50%$X to 75%$X)
• Add shipping & insurance cost.
• Applicable taxes that impact cost is mainly GST, electronic goods has no custom duties or other mandated taxes.

• Isn't the general 25% to 50% margin sufficient to cover overhead/carrying cost & profit margin?
• But in SG, the local list price can stretch to 130% of $X; some niche products even more.
• That's a huge margin for local reseller...

What gives?

Is the local overhead and inventory carrying cost so crazy high?
Or, is it a volume problem?

 

[GotBetrayed]

Since we are on this topic of pricing... can someone help me understand why is this happening?

• Taking manufacturer list price as a reference ($X)
• Generally, reseller has between 25% to 50% margin (meaning their cost is 50%$X to 75%$X)
• Add shipping & insurance cost.
• Applicable taxes that impact cost is mainly GST, electronic goods has no custom duties or other mandated taxes.

• Isn't the general 25% to 50% margin sufficient to cover overhead/carrying cost & profit margin?
• But in SG, the local list price can stretch to 130% of $X; some niche products even more.
• That's a huge margin for local reseller...

What gives?

Is the local overhead and inventory carrying cost so crazy high?
Or, is it a volume problem?

Profits, rental, and yes volume matters. I’m not an expert but waiting for an expert to comment on this. Also, imperfect information.

 

[dreamaurora]

Since we are on this topic of pricing... can someone help me understand why is this happening?

• Taking manufacturer list price as a reference ($X)
• Generally, reseller has between 25% to 50% margin (meaning their cost is 50%$X to 75%$X)
• Add shipping & insurance cost.
• Applicable taxes that impact cost is mainly GST, electronic goods has no custom duties or other mandated taxes.

• Isn't the general 25% to 50% margin sufficient to cover overhead/carrying cost & profit margin?
• But in SG, the local list price can stretch to 130% of $X; some niche products even more.
• That's a huge margin for local reseller...

What gives?

Is the local overhead and inventory carrying cost so crazy high?
Or, is it a volume problem?

I could help you answer this because one of my friends is a dealer.

Pretty much most of the high end stuff except the really popular stuff are on consignment basis. The rate for the dealer is around 40-60% listed SRP, though the brands might suggest different SRP depending on the regions. The dealer is then free to determine how much they are willing to sell the product depending on their overhead cost. Dealer only pays the freight charges and GST for stocks that are in Singapore.

This is why the prices in Singapore can differ so widely. Some brands here are cheaper than their listed SRPs because dealers do not mind lowering their commission rate, though usually their prices are high to begin with (like Audio Denmark Group stuff), while some are more expensive because of high overheads or more premium designation (like McIntosh).

 

[BanEle]

I will be going Japan in march. Where to buy cheap speakers?

 

[LiLAsN]

Thanks LiLAsN. Seems like I have to spend some money on LS50 wireless 2. Sub woofer may have to wait. Lol. Otherwise wife may complain.

But that price though. Oh my goodness. Like I said, you can consider the LS50 Wireless 1 too. Or get an Amp like Bluesound to power the cheaper passive LS50 Meta instead. The LS50 Wireless 2 is literally the LS50 Meta but with an Amp built-in.
That, or you can just consider the KEF LS50 Wireless 1. The highs are a bit higher similar to the Klipsch The Fives but overall, should still sound fine if you are slightly off-axis from its on-axis position. At the end of the day, the biggest improvement still comes from a subwoofer.

But then again, that is how it is with audio. You can get the best now even if it means you can't get the other components yet. But slowly, you can build up your setup over time. With the best gear for each component. So you may have the best speaker now. But over time, you will pair it with the best subwoofer and so on.

For the subwoofer, if you are really serious about audio, get one where it can go below 20Hz. The problem with a subwoofer that can do 20Hz at -3dB is because it is on the edge of our listening ability. If it was on my earlier graph, it is right at the edge of the blue line. So getting a subwoofer that can go below 20Hz, you are ensuring that at that 20Hz, the volume should be on par with the rest of the sub bass and mid bass frequencies. So can consider the SVS SB2000 Pro instead.

As for prices, the mark-up prices has been ridiculous. I bought my SB-3000 back in 2019 for $1,660.49. Now, $1900+. Similarly, the KEF KC62 was priced at around $1899 when it first launched in Singapore back in 2021. Now it too is close to $2399 SRP.

 

[dreamaurora]

I will be going Japan in march. Where to buy cheap speakers?

Fujiya Avic i mentioned above is one. The other one I know is Avac. You can browse their online stores first before dropping there.

I think a pair of Epicon 2 + a TEAC integrated amplifier ( I believe all TEAC amps are dual voltage) will cost almost same as a LS50 II in Singapore. This setup will certainly be superior to LS50 II. The only issue is a pair of Epicon 2 weights 20 kg lol.

Or you could go for a pair of Focal Aria 906 which cost around $1.5K SGD over there.

 

[BanEle]

Haha,...20kg i can still bring it back... oh mine.. i really should give it some thoughts..

so far KEF LS50 wireless does look sleek.. getting it because it take up less space and can be without cable.

 

[dreamaurora]

Haha,...20kg i can still bring it back... oh mine.. i really should give it some thoughts..

so far KEF LS50 wireless does look sleek.. getting it because it take up less space and can be without cable.

My mistake, I checked the listing again, the price is for actually one speaker. So a pair is around 5K SGD, still way cheaper than Singapore's local price though.

But, you can consider the smaller Dali Menuet SE, which cost like 1.7K SGD for a pair over there. Sleeker also.

Anyway nothing wrong with getting LS50 II, they will serve you well.

 

[dreamaurora]

Seems like Alpha has new stocks of Triangle Comete 40th in sycamore. During sale it would be around $2.2-2.3K after discount. I loved my Comete, kind of regret selling them. I still think they are the best speakers under $3K, even the new Mission 700 is not as good as them. The sycamore version is really beautiful, can match those muji style very nicely.

 

[GotBetrayed]

Wanna pair a sub with my Klipsch the fives

looking at: Svs sb 1000 pro, SVS 3000 micro

mainly for music and pc gaming, not movies