Dispute with PC Dreams

[Aloof_guy]

All wording in bold are quoted from PC Dreams

Please note that this thread is not meant to fault PC Dreams but to find out if there was an overcharge or misinformation.

Last week, I went to PC Dreams to inquire about my 3 yr old Asus laptop with a black screen. I met a guy called 'Elfi' and he quoted me $180-$250 for the repair of a graphic card, depending on the number of chips needed to be replace.

I asked, why was it so expensive and is this price the standard for repair shops around SLS. I said I did not want to waste time checking prices as I heard 'good reviews' about the shop. He said other shops might take your graphic card and repair it by molding. This can take a few months. Our price is +- around there.. I told him, if its too expensive to repair, I would rather buy a new laptop first. So I asked him to call me about the price and what change was needed before he repair..

Yesterday, I received a call saying my laptop was ready for collection. I was surprised as I did not receive a call about the price and repair needed as requested.

The price quoted was $200 for 1 graphic card chip replacement.

I suspecting something was amiss and I went to SLS to check with 4 other repair shops about the price for the same repair. I was quoted $110-140. PC Clinic, a reputable repair shop, quoted me $120. I inquired about the 'molding taking a few months' that was told my PC Dreams and they said they have not heard of such practice.

This meant an overcharge of $90 from PC Dreams. (almost 50% more).

I went to PC Dreams and told them the situation. They claimed that they use new parts while other shops might use old ones and that explained why they charged 50% more.. Take note that this is despite other shops giving a longer warranty period then PC Dreams. A guy name Sam went to speak to his manager and then told me I could get it at $180 instead or he could unrepair the computer and I can take it to another shop. As I am due to fly off soon, I paid the $180 and left.

Also at the shop was another guy who I overheard was sold a faulty laptop and that it was his 3rd time to the shop.

My question is, does $200 justify a graphic card single chip replacement? What are your opinions?

===

1. I have no intention of going to CASE. Please this is a small issue. I only mentioned CASE as someone mentioned that it is ok to be charged a premium of 50% for repairs.. actually, its about close to 100%. Unfortunately, I disagree.

2. We are not talking about 10-20% premium. What could have been done at $100 is now charged at $200. I think it is reasonable to be unhappy when a customer is paying twice the amount for service when the $100 even gives you a longer warranty.

Is it ok for a repair shop to charge you the highest repair service cost when there were actually cheaper alternatives available? Shouldn't there be some choices given to the customer first?

3. I dont get why people mention buying stuff from mustafa as compared to apple etc. This is not ASUS repair center. I am comparing apple for apple. PC dreams and 4 other reputable repair centers. PC Clinic is one of them. Is it justifiable for PC dreams to charge $200 instead of $100+- that the rest quoted?

4. As for the call, I called PC Dreams first to inquire about the price. Went down to the shop and told a guy there that I did not check with other shops as given PC dreams reputation, I trust that they will give a sound price. Told them to call me first about the quote. $200 and $250 is quite a large gap for repairs. If its $250, I would have rather have bought a new Asus laptop selling at $699 at the Asus shop below, with even better specs then mine + 1 year warranty. Get my drift? Unfortunately, there was no call. PC dreams, for your info, the 2nd time I spoke to you was Sunday 8pm+

Hopefully everyone can look at it objectively. I understand many are PC dreams loyal customers but please put yourself in my shoes. Would you pay double for the same repair on an old laptop?

 

[cscs3]

You are unreasonable. You can you do not want to take the trouble to find out who is cheaper. And now this shop repaired within the range of price quote to you. You then find out from other it can be cheap and make a "complain" here.

Be more reasonable. Even other shop may quote you at a cheaper price initially. It may ended up paying more when they start to tell you this and that also need to change !!!

Very common in Sim Lim especially those shops at the back land.

 

[trento]

The guy with the faulty laptop brought it bk for one to one exchange? I guess its just unlucky n if pc dreams were willing to xchg, then is ok.

As for yr case, some ppl quote high price so its just too bad. If u din shop ard, then its not really the expensive shops fault.

 

[Aloof_guy]

You are unreasonable. You can you do not want to take the trouble to find out who is cheaper. And now this shop repaired within the range of price quote to you. You then find out from other it can be cheap and make a "complain" here.

Be more reasonable. Even other shop may quote you at a cheaper price initially. It may ended up paying more when they start to tell you this and that also need to change !!!

Very common in Sim Lim especially those shops at the back land.

Are you saying that any shop can overcharge its customer and it is the on the onus of the customer to do his research before purchase? If that is so, I want to talk to CASE to see what they think about it.

 

[watzup_ken]

I suppose even if the price was higher, we can't shrug off our personal responsibility to do our home work. Can't penalize others if we assume right? Do note replacing parts will cost u, and don't include diagnostic charge. U never know how much a shop will charge u until the laptop is fixed right? That is when u are most vulnerable, since most will pay. Don't be taken in by cheap prices "some shops" is telling u. Talk is cheap. I can quote u 50 bucks at the start and when u are collecting, sing a different tune with excuses like dif to find parts, workmanship, and other lame hidden cost. At least the shop was upfront to tell u the cost. Live with it man.

 

[Gribber]

Are you saying that any shop can overcharge its customer and it is the on the onus of the customer to do his research before purchase? If that is so, I want to talk to CASE to see what they think about it.

this is what "CASE" will do to you
(taken from friend's fb)

To clarify your query, the Biz Profile is a pre-requisite document for your submission to of documents at Small Claims (SCT). The lodgement fee plus the Biz Profile printout cost about $15. The process for a straightforward case will take around 3 weeks. In the event that if the company representative does not turn up, yeas a default judgement can be obtained. The Tribunals naturally have to ascertain your provided company address is correct, thus the necessity of getting the Biz Printout. If any other reason why the Tribunals has such pre-requisite, you may wish to query with the counter during the submission. Kindly note that we are a separate entity with SCT and we do not lodge on consumer’s behalf.

We wish to inform that CASE is not a law enforcement agency. We do not establish the Lemon Law. The law is passed in the judiciary and must be approved by the President of Singapore. The full documents are recorded at the Attorney’s General Chambers. CASE promotes and create the awareness but are not in any legal authority to judge a case as we are not a law enforcement agency.

We are able to assist either through a one time letter which you will need to bring down your full documents to CASE office and do a walk in, obtain a one time letter ($10 admin fee) and bring the letter to negotiate with the company direct and give them 2 weeks to response to you direct. You can also file the case online with us ($35 admin + membership fee) but however this process can take up to 3 to 4 months. In the event the company did not reply or did not provide an improved offer by 2 letters, we have to proceed to close the case.

Yes, in the event that negotiation has failed to reach a settlement, you will need to bring the case to SCT to litigate against the said company. That if you go through the full course, probably may take you 4 months. Our advice for SCT is based on your need to expedite a settlement. We hope this clarifies and which such information be able to aid you in an expeditious decision and settlement.

in other words, they are just there for "show"(your own interpretion).

 

[Gribber]

TS post and tio:

 

[PC_Dreams]

Hi,

Sorry to hear about your experience.
Perhaps there is a need for us to do some explanation here.
We are very transparent on our charges and what we do, so let us keep this discussion open.

Firstly, we definitely are not the cheapest repairer in Singapore and we never aim to be that. We sought to be a reliable and transparent repairer with integrity and quality repairs.
With regards to the "molding" issue, there should be some misunderstanding. To put is correctly, some repairers just do a re-heat on the motherboard and failure can come back a short period. This method only solve the problem temporarily.

There are a few ways to save cost on repairs:

1) Re-work: Not changing the IC but just re-heating the IC. For rework, there are 2 methods:
a) Cheapest method, just use a hot air gun and blow the motherboard on the affected IC chip.
b) Insulate the unaffected area, then use a proper BGA machine to reheat the affect IC.
Method a is the cheapest. Some shops actually do it for just $80 and give long warranty. If your unit fail within warranty period, all they have to do is to reheat until the warranty is over.

2) Re-ball: Take out the old IC, and re-ball the IC back. This process is more tedious, longer time to do it properly.

3) Change IC - 2 methods
a) Change a used IC - (can be purposely or unpurposely).
This is more expensive than 1 & 2, but the cost of the IC can be relatively low, especially if the IC is stripped from old boards. There are also cases where the IC are thought to be new, but are actually refurbished ones. In China, there are plenty of unreliable sources which tout refurbished ICs and sell as new.
b) Change a new IC - We only used ICs direct from the factory OR from reliable certified sources.

After repair, we also run a full comprehensive test to ensure that all other components are working properly. There are always chances that a particular IC (say IC 1), spoil due to a intermittently faulty IC (say IC 2). Thus during preliminary test and repairs, many repairers will just change IC 1. We have proper oscilloscope to test for this kind of failures so as to minimize it from happening.

We also have qualified engineers to do the repairs. Our technicians range for Electronics graduates/Diplomas holders with proper certification. (Do note that we were once Dell service centre, and now we are MSI service centre, and also authorized service centre for Courts/Harvey Norman & Challenger).

Manpower cost is higher on our side. We believe in hiring quality manpower to provide quality repairs. A dishonest technician can easily 'cheat' the money out of consumers, without the companies' knowledge. To quote an example, say a customer send in a laptop with HDD failure, the technician can claim there are multiple failures, and the RAM also fail and ask the customer to pay for the RAM. If the customer refuse to change, the technician will put in a faulty RAM and pocket the working RAM.

We also a customer service team in place for customer recovery, provide a platform in HWZ to listen to our customers, and even refunds are possible for our repairs. All these are business cost.

To all customers out here, if a cheaper repair method list here, please do let us know. We will do a internally discussion to see whether it is necessary to start budget repair option using the cheaper repair methods list above. However, repair quality cannot be guaranteed.

Finally, to TS, we did offer you to refund for the repair and return the unit to the original state. That is the best we can do already. Also for what you have overheard, I think it is best to leave it out of the discussion here. Different scenarios have different cases. Failures can also happen, most important we are always here to take up the responsibility.

If you need us to call you privately to explain, please kindly pm us. We will get our customer service team to give you a satisfactory answer.

 

[Aloof_guy]

I suppose even if the price was higher, we can't shrug off our personal responsibility to do our home work. Can't penalize others if we assume right? Do note replacing parts will cost u, and don't include diagnostic charge. U never know how much a shop will charge u until the laptop is fixed right? That is when u are most vulnerable, since most will pay. Don't be taken in by cheap prices "some shops" is telling u. Talk is cheap. I can quote u 50 bucks at the start and when u are collecting, sing a different tune with excuses like dif to find parts, workmanship, and other lame hidden cost. At least the shop was upfront to tell u the cost. Live with it man.

I can most definitely live with it.

Higher price its ok, but 50% higher is definitely not ok.

I checked with 4 reliable SLS shops. Not those dodgy backlane ones. These are shops with reputations similar to PC Dreams.

FYI, I told them to inform me FIRST about final repair cost before commencing repair but unfortunately, they didn't.

 

[ArcticCheetah]

Actually I think it is only right for the repair shop to call the customer if he wants to proceed after telling him the price.
Btw what is the GFX IC?

 

[Aloof_guy]

Thanks for your reply PC Dreams.

Firstly, my issue was you guys not informing me about final repair cost before repair commencement as requested by me. Yes you did offer to unrepair it but like I explained earlier, I am due overseas soon and I cant afford to go to another shop.

Secondly, you must understand that technical jargon aside, 4 reliable shops quoted the same repair (replacement of chip) at a 50% lower cost. Yes, you can say that these shops are unreliable etc but I'm telling you that I have heard of these 4 shops and they are most definitely reliable. Even if 1 or 2 isnt, what are the chances of 4 shops quoting the same price?

Lastly, As for you charging a premium over others due to your extra services, yes I can understand. But 50% is not considered a premium. Imagine buying an Ipod for $150 instead of $100.

Hi,

Sorry to hear about your experience.
Perhaps there is a need for us to do some explanation here.
We are very transparent on our charges and what we do, so let us keep this discussion open.

Firstly, we definitely are not the cheapest repairer in Singapore and we never aim to be that. We sought to be a reliable and transparent repairer with integrity and quality repairs.

There are a few ways to save cost on repairs:

1) Re-work: Not changing the IC but just re-heating the IC. For rework, there are 2 methods:
a) Cheapest method, just use a hot air gun and blow the motherboard on the affected IC chip.
b) Insulate the unaffected area, then use a proper BGA machine to reheat the affect IC.
Method a is the cheapest. Some shops actually do it for just $80 and give long warranty. If your unit fail within warranty period, all they have to do is to reheat until the warranty is over.

2) Re-ball: Take out the old IC, and re-ball the IC back. This process is more tedious, longer time to do it properly.

3) Change IC - 2 methods
a) Change a used IC - (can be purposely or unpurposely).
This is more expensive than 1 & 2, but the cost of the IC can be relatively low, especially if the IC is stripped from old boards. There are also cases where the IC are thought to be new, but are actually refurbished ones. In China, there are plenty of unreliable sources which tout refurbished ICs and sell as new.
b) Change a new IC - We only used ICs direct from the factory OR from reliable certified sources.

After repair, we also run a full comprehensive test to ensure that all other components are working properly. There are always chances that a particular IC (say IC 1), spoil due to a intermittently faulty IC (say IC 2). Thus during preliminary test and repairs, many repairers will just change IC 1. We have proper oscilloscope to test for this kind of failures so as to minimize it from happening.

We also have qualified engineers to do the repairs. Our technicians range for Electronics graduates/Diplomas holders with proper certification. (Do note that we were once Dell service centre, and now we are MSI service centre, and also authorized service centre for Courts/Harvey Norman & Challenger).

Manpower cost is higher on our side. We believe in hiring quality manpower to provide quality repairs. A dishonest technician can easily 'cheat' the money out of consumers, without the companies' knowledge. To quote an example, say a customer send in a laptop with HDD failure, the technician can claim there are multiple failures, and the RAM also fail and ask the customer to pay for the RAM. If the customer refuse to change, the technician will put in a faulty RAM and pocket the working RAM.

We also a customer service team in place for customer recovery, provide a platform in HWZ to listen to our customers, and even refunds are possible for our repairs. All these are business cost.

To all customers out here, if a cheaper repair method list here, please do let us know. We will do a internally discussion to see whether it is necessary to start budget repair option using the cheaper repair methods list above. However, repair quality cannot be guaranteed.

Finally, to TS, we did offer you to refund for the repair and return the unit to the original state. That is the best we can do already. Also for what you have overheard, I think it is best to leave it out of the discussion here. Different scenarios and different cases. Failures can also happen, most important we are always here to take up the responsibility.

If you need us to call you privately to explain, please kindly pm us. We will get our customer service team to give you a satisfactory answer.

 

[PC_Dreams]

I can most definitely live with it.

Higher price its ok, but 50% higher is definitely not ok.

I checked with 4 reliable SLS shops. Not those dodgy backlane ones. These are shops with reputations similar to PC Dreams.

FYI, I told them to inform me FIRST about final repair cost before commencing repair but unfortunately, they didn't.

Hi Aloof_guy,

As mention, if you like us to reverse the repair, we can do it for you.
With regards about informing on the repair cost, did a check with our colleague, YES, we did call you before proceeding with the repair. Repair charges quote is $200. However, after repair, during collection, you reflected that you found out that other shops are cheaper. Thus we gave another $20 discount out of good will.

Even if there is a genuine miscommunication, we had also offer you to reverse the repair. This is as much as we can do.

Due to the intense competition in Sim Lim Square by those Chinese and Indian repairers, many repairers in Singapore have to choose the cheaper repair options. However, this is not our belief. Cheap does not always mean good, especially in the service scene.

By way, since the discussion have extend to CASE, we work closely with CASE and have many times give them advice and information about hardware repairs scene. Our rates are definitely along the median range. We can also PM you privately on some other shops that charge much higher than us if you need to make a reference.

 

[PC_Dreams]

Thanks for your reply PC Dreams.

Firstly, my issue was you guys not informing me about final repair cost before repair commencement as requested by me. Yes you did offer to unrepair it but like I explained earlier, I am due overseas soon and I cant afford to go to another shop.

Secondly, you must understand that technical jargon aside, 4 reliable shops quoted the same repair (replacement of chip) at a 50% lower cost. Yes, you can say that these shops are unreliable etc but I'm telling you that I have heard of these 4 shops and they are most definitely reliable. Even if 1 or 2 isnt, what are the chances of 4 shops quoting the same price?

Lastly, As for you charging a premium over others due to your extra services, yes I can understand. But 50% is not considered a premium. Imagine buying an Ipod for $150 instead of $100.

Well, a good technician's pay is easily 50% more than a unreliable one.
As mention, not that these shops are not reliable, just that they might choose a cheaper option of repair.

Also do they have someone to listen and solve your issues with an open platform like this? The fact that we have to resolve customer issues, answer to customers even after working hours already show how different our commitment is to our customer.

If you like a find some higher quotes, we can easily point you to these shops.

Finally in the service scene, someone providing good services can easily charge 100-200% more.
Moreover, the 50% more is not just on service, it is also about a different method of approaching the repair.

Just something for everyone to ponder, how do you measure the cost of good service? Using the ipod analogy might not an appropriate example.

 

[PC_Dreams]

Actually I think it is only right for the repair shop to call the customer if he wants to proceed after telling him the price.

Yes we totally agree. We call customer on repair cost.
Just confirmed with our colleague that we DID call TS before repairing. It is recorded on our service sheet that we made the call.

 

[PC_Dreams]

All wording in bold are quoted from PC Dreams

Please note that this thread is not meant to fault PC Dreams but to find out if there was an overcharge or misinformation.

Last week, I went to PC Dreams to inquire about my 3 yr old Asus laptop with a black screen. I met a guy called 'Elfi' and he quoted me $180-$250 for the repair of a graphic card, depending on the number of chips needed to be replace.

I asked, why was it so expensive and is this price the standard for repair shops around SLS. I said I did not want to waste time checking prices as I heard 'good reviews' about the shop. He said other shops might take your graphic card and repair it by molding. This can take a few months. Our price is +- around there.. I told him, if its too expensive to repair, I would rather buy a new laptop first. So I asked him to call me about the price and what change was needed before he repair..

Yesterday, I received a call saying my laptop was ready for collection. I was surprised as I did not receive a call about the price and repair needed as requested.

The price quoted was $200 for 1 graphic card chip replacement.

I suspecting something was amiss and I went to SLS to check with 4 other repair shops about the price for the same repair. I was quoted $110-140. PC Clinic, a reputable repair shop, quoted me $120. I inquired about the 'molding taking a few months' that was told my PC Dreams and they said they have not heard of such practice.

This meant an overcharge of $90 from PC Dreams. (almost 50% more).

I went to PC Dreams and told them the situation. They claimed that they use new parts while other shops might use old ones and that explained why they charged 50% more.. Take note that this is despite other shops giving a longer warranty period then PC Dreams. A guy name Sam went to speak to his manager and then told me I could get it at $180 instead or he could unrepair the computer and I can take it to another shop. As I am due to fly off soon, I paid the $180 and left.

Also at the shop was another guy who I overheard was sold a faulty laptop and that it was his 3rd time to the shop.

My question is, does $200 justify a graphic card single chip replacement? What are your opinions?

Quoting down your first post in case of further disputes.

 

[trento]

Are you saying that any shop can overcharge its customer and it is the on the onus of the customer to do his research before purchase? If that is so, I want to talk to CASE to see what they think about it.

Im afraid tats the case. If u go best denki for eg to buy tv, dun xpect the same price in mustafa. The only one i confidently say all same price is Apple. Left right centre north south east west except applestore all same price. So really must shop ard if not cant complain if kena burn

 

[Gribber]

Im afraid tats the case. If u go best denki for eg to buy tv, dun xpect the same price in mustafa. The only one i confidently say all same price is Apple. Left right centre north south east west except applestore all same price. So really must shop ard if not cant complain if kena burn

my company exclusive with apple could get it cheaper.

only drawback - 1 item per year.

 

[xiaosinsinful]

my company exclusive with apple could get it cheaper.

only drawback - 1 item per year.

how much "cheaper" is the question. cheaper as in discount like education?

 

[mistersatki_]

tio pwn dip dip ah ts
cheapo then feel that he tio tock
then buay song come online rant

 

[Vincym]

All wording in bold are quoted from PC Dreams

So I asked him to call me about the price and what change was needed before he repair..

Yesterday, I received a call saying my laptop was ready for collection. I was surprised as I did not receive a call about the price and repair needed as requested.

I think the whole drama started from here.
If for me, the price will not be that big of an issue. If what TS said was true, PC Dream could have call him up and inform him abt the charges.

This gives him options to
1. Compare Price
2. Decide new laptop purchase
3. Agree on the repair cost (Commitment)

I have not dealt with PC Dreams yet but they have a good reputation. This is probably just communication gap between TS and PC Dreams.

Just my 2cents. No need bring in CASE all leh...