Endowus Cash Smart

[zoneguard]

I've got about $200k from HSBC that I will have to switch out. Would this be a good option to park the money for a few months as compared to a savings account?

If the expectation is capital guaranteed, then the answer is a No.

 

[oinkoink1999]

i thought of parking some funds in core and enhanced starting tomorrow 1 Aug. Has anyone started investing so far and how's the portfolio doing?

 

[reddevil0728]

If you need a referral link you can PM me.

You'd probably want to create an account on 3 Aug instead of 1 Aug because even if you create a buy order for either Core and/or Enhanced on Saturday, the buy order will not be executed until 4 Aug earliest (because of the weekend).

If I recall correctly, the onboarding does not require much time.

I'm seeing gains so far (i.e. always positive and stable). There is very little volatility. As the products just launched recently, it is steadily increasing in value so far.

Actually should create an account over the weekend when fee rather than on a work day unless do at night, which means drag another day.

Cause still need wait for them to one they UOBKH’s account for you

 

[Han Shot First]

i thought of parking some funds in core and enhanced starting tomorrow 1 Aug. Has anyone started investing so far and how's the portfolio doing?

If you need a referral link you can PM me.

I'm seeing gains so far (i.e. always positive and stable). There is very little volatility. As the products just launched recently, it is steadily increasing in value so far.

If I recall correctly, the account signup does not require much time (on the client's side). However, Endowus needs a few business days for their partner, UOB Kay Hian, to create a (new) securities trading account for the client. This occurs during business days and not on weekend.

Even if your account is ready and onboarded (like mine), if you create a buy order for either Core and/or Enhanced on Saturday, the buy order will not be executed until 4 Aug earliest (because of the weekend).

 

[s0crates]

Hope you have set up your account. I referred a friend to Endowus and he says the onboarding process takes like a week or so.

Probably business too good and kayhian side taking longer hahaha

i thought of parking some funds in core and enhanced starting tomorrow 1 Aug. Has anyone started investing so far and how's the portfolio doing?

 

[Han Shot First]

Hope you have set up your account. I referred a friend to Endowus and he says the onboarding process takes like a week or so.

It takes a few business days. If I recall correctly about 3 business days. Definitely less than a week.

The issue is that one cannot fund the account unless there is a securities trading account number to transfer money to. And UOB Kay Hian takes some time to provide that account number on one's Endowus platform.

 

[oinkoink1999]

If you need a referral link you can PM me.

I'm seeing gains so far (i.e. always positive and stable). There is very little volatility. As the products just launched recently, it is steadily increasing in value so far.

If I recall correctly, the account signup does not require much time (on the client's side). However, Endowus needs a few business days for their partner, UOB Kay Hian, to create a (new) securities trading account for the client. This occurs during business days and not on weekend.

Even if your account is ready and onboarded (like mine), if you create a buy order for either Core and/or Enhanced on Saturday, the buy order will not be executed until 4 Aug earliest (because of the weekend).

thanks bro. i already signed up few months ago but did not use it .

 

[ydnar1]

Just my view and a rough calculation

For Endowus Core:

Fullerton SGD Cash Fund is effectively a 1-year fixed deposit account, less 0.15% TER and 0.4% Endowus annual fee. How much can 1 year fixed deposit yield now? Say 1.1% gross. Net for this fund is probably 0.6% to 0.7%

LionGlobal SGD Enhanced Liquidity Fund:
Invest in very short term corporate bonds (0.75 years). Though very short term, the number of holding is small say 70+, and being bonds there is default risk esp for small holdings.
45% Singapore Bonds, 36% China Bonds. I believe the Chinese bonds are the one providing the better yield for this fund.
Jun 2020: YTM 2.32%, TER say max 0.35%, Endowus annual fee 0.4%, net roughly 1.6% pa before trailer fee rebate

And thus, this Endowus core fund can generate 1.1% to 1.3% pa net


---

For Endowus Enhanced:

UOB United SGD Fund, 80 issues
Another bond fund with short duration (less than 2 years)
July 2020 YTM 2.81%, Apr 2020 Dividend yield 3.5%, TER 0.33% to 0.63%, Endowus AF 0.4%, Apr 2020 net probably 2.8% before trailer fee rebate. Net yield probably will fall further as July 2020 YTM is lower.
37% Singapore, 25% China

Together with LionGlobal SGD Enhanced Liquidity Fund, this Endowus Enhance fund could thus generate say 2.1% (and probably will fall further)

 

[supersnail0]

how does it differ from stashaway tho

 

[ydnar1]

how does it differ from stashaway tho

Bro,


Your one question, and I have to research another 20 minutes.


StashAway Simple™ allocates 50% of its assets to the LionGlobal SGD Money Market Fund ("MMF") and 50% to LionGlobal SGD Enhanced Liquidity Fund SGD Class I Acc ("ELF")

LionGlobal SGD Enhanced Liquidity Fund:
Invest in very short term corporate bonds (0.75 years). Though very short term, the number of holding is small say 70+, and being bonds there is default risk esp for small holdings.
Accumulation
45% Singapore Bonds, 36% China Bonds. I believe the Chinese bonds are the one providing the better yield for this fund.
Jun 2020: YTM 2.32%, TER say max 0.35%, 0% Stashaway platform fee, net roughly 2% pa before trailer fee rebate


LionGlobal SGD Money Market Fund:
Singapore Govt Bonds 37%, Financial institutions 20%
Holding small
AUM $200m
Jun 2020 YTM 1.48%, less 0.33% TER, 0% Stashaway platform fee, net roughly 1.1% pa before trailer fee rebate

Though stashaway is projecting 1.9% returns, I expect the returns to fall to 1.5% going forward.



I think Stashaway is probably (or definitely) better than Endowus Core, due to absence of platform fee



You probably get slightly higher returns with Endowus Enhanced with slightly higher risk, but stashaway simple looks good still.

 

[undergrd]

Thank you for the breakdown.

Bro,


Your one question, and I have to research another 20 minutes.


StashAway Simple™ allocates 50% of its assets to the LionGlobal SGD Money Market Fund ("MMF") and 50% to LionGlobal SGD Enhanced Liquidity Fund SGD Class I Acc ("ELF")

LionGlobal SGD Enhanced Liquidity Fund:
Invest in very short term corporate bonds (0.75 years). Though very short term, the number of holding is small say 70+, and being bonds there is default risk esp for small holdings.
Accumulation
45% Singapore Bonds, 36% China Bonds. I believe the Chinese bonds are the one providing the better yield for this fund.
Jun 2020: YTM 2.32%, TER say max 0.35%, 0% Stashaway platform fee, net roughly 2% pa before trailer fee rebate


LionGlobal SGD Money Market Fund:
Singapore Govt Bonds 37%, Financial institutions 20%
Holding small
AUM $200m
Jun 2020 YTM 1.48%, less 0.33% TER, 0% Stashaway platform fee, net roughly 1.1% pa before trailer fee rebate

Though stashaway is projecting 1.9% returns, I expect the returns to fall to 1.5% going forward.



I think Stashaway is probably (or definitely) better than Endowus Core, due to absence of platform fee



You probably get slightly higher returns with Endowus Enhanced with slightly higher risk, but stashaway simple looks good still.

 

[hwmook]

Bro,


Your one question, and I have to research another 20 minutes.


StashAway Simple™ allocates 50% of its assets to the LionGlobal SGD Money Market Fund ("MMF") and 50% to LionGlobal SGD Enhanced Liquidity Fund SGD Class I Acc ("ELF")

LionGlobal SGD Enhanced Liquidity Fund:
Invest in very short term corporate bonds (0.75 years). Though very short term, the number of holding is small say 70+, and being bonds there is default risk esp for small holdings.
Accumulation
45% Singapore Bonds, 36% China Bonds. I believe the Chinese bonds are the one providing the better yield for this fund.
Jun 2020: YTM 2.32%, TER say max 0.35%, 0% Stashaway platform fee, net roughly 2% pa before trailer fee rebate


LionGlobal SGD Money Market Fund:
Singapore Govt Bonds 37%, Financial institutions 20%
Holding small
AUM $200m
Jun 2020 YTM 1.48%, less 0.33% TER, 0% Stashaway platform fee, net roughly 1.1% pa before trailer fee rebate

Though stashaway is projecting 1.9% returns, I expect the returns to fall to 1.5% going forward.



I think Stashaway is probably (or definitely) better than Endowus Core, due to absence of platform fee



You probably get slightly higher returns with Endowus Enhanced with slightly higher risk, but stashaway simple looks good still.

Endowus has make sure to package it such that trailer fees rebate is more than the fees they charged so you can ignore the fees.

 

[cfleee]

I think Stashaway is probably (or definitely) better than Endowus Core, due to absence of platform fee

I'm not sure if "absence of platform fee" by itself will make one better than the other -- they're just structured differently. StashAway takes the trailer fee rebate and passes some unknown (and seems like varying) portion of it to you, compared to Endowus rebate all of it to you and then charge you an access fee.

Ultimately, the difference is in the amount of risk involved, and the overall amount of returns you get in exchange for the risk. What will be better for someone should depend on how much risk they actually have an appetite for, and whether they think the increased returns for increased risk is worth it?

 

[ydnar1]

It does seemed like the platform fee is higher than the trailer fee since TER is not particularly high for these funds

Ie Fullerton is not charging much due to partial waiver of fee. Also, I couldn’t apprehend why one would invest in a fund that invest in fixed deposit. Sales charge, management fee, trustee fee etc.

Endowus has make sure to package it such that trailer fees rebate is more than the fees they charged so you can ignore the fees.

 

[ydnar1]

StashAway simple rebate is about 33% of the management fee, which i think is fairly substantial.

Management fee for the funds aren’t that high, esp for institution investor tranches. So endowus platform fee of 0.4% does seem to outweigh the trailer fee rebate.

I'm not sure if "absence of platform fee" by itself will make one better than the other -- they're just structured differently. StashAway takes the trailer fee rebate and passes some unknown (and seems like varying) portion of it to you, compared to Endowus rebate all of it to you and then charge you an access fee.

Ultimately, the difference is in the amount of risk involved, and the overall amount of returns you get in exchange for the risk. What will be better for someone should depend on how much risk they actually have an appetite for, and whether they think the increased returns for increased risk is worth it?

 

[s0crates]

Endowus platform fee for cash smart is 0.05%.

I prefer endowus simply for transparency of projected returns - simple has been 1.9% since November last year- which is insanely unbelievable given interest rate environment.


https://newacademyoffinance.com/stashaway-simple-review/

StashAway simple rebate is about 33% of the management fee, which i think is fairly substantial.

Management fee for the funds aren’t that high, esp for institution investor tranches. So endowus platform fee of 0.4% does seem to outweigh the trailer fee rebate.

 

[hwmook]

StashAway simple rebate is about 33% of the management fee, which i think is fairly substantial.

Management fee for the funds aren’t that high, esp for institution investor tranches. So endowus platform fee of 0.4% does seem to outweigh the trailer fee rebate.

I have stashaway and endowus. Endowus is better.

Endowus charges an Access Fee of 0.05% per annum and rebates 100% of trailer fees it receives from the fund company, which are 0.09% for Cash Smart Core and 0.23% for Cash Smart Enhanced, respectively. 

Total cost after all fees per annum (analysis done in June 2020):
*Cash Smart Core at Endowus: 0.23%
Cash Smart Core replicated at FSM:  0.65%
Cash Smart Enhanced at Endowus: 0.35%
Cash Smart Enhanced replicated at FSM: 0.91%

 

[ydnar1]

I am sorry. Ya. The platform fee is 0.05%. I had confused with the 0.4% CPF SRS platform fee. my overlook..

For me, I would not go for Endowus Core as the fullerton fund is just a Fixed Deposit fund. No point for me to pay 0.15% management fee and 0.05% platform fee.

So it is either Stashaway simple or endowus enhanced.

 

[zoneguard]

Total cost after all fees per annum (analysis done in June 2020):
*Cash Smart Core at Endowus: 0.23%
Cash Smart Core replicated at FSM:* 0.65%
Cash Smart Enhanced at Endowus: 0.35%
Cash Smart Enhanced replicated at FSM: 0.91%

FSM is a distributor that charges platform fee for fixed income funds. Endowus should compare with other distributors (dollarDex, POEMS) that don't charge platform fees. BTW UOB Kay Hian that Endowus uses is also a UT distributor.

 

[hwmook]

FSM is a distributor that charges platform fee for fixed income funds. Endowus should compare with other distributors (dollarDex, POEMS) that don't charge platform fees. BTW UOB Kay Hian that Endowus uses is also a UT distributor.

I know, you obviously choose the worst one to make yourself look good right? Anyway its still better compared to dollardex and POEMS.