EndowUs Roboadvisor: investing using CPF

[Joseph99]

Hi all, I just opened endowus account a few days ago and waiting for account to open. I know min amount is 10k . Can I put that 10k in cash account while deciding which investment portfolio to place ? Tia.

 

[Mr. Wood]

Hi all, I just opened endowus account a few days ago and waiting for account to open. I know min amount is 10k . Can I put that 10k in cash account while deciding which investment portfolio to place ? Tia.

can open accnt and leave it dormant with $0 until u are ready to invest.
dats wht i did. den evy week dey juz send email reminders and commentaries.

 

[Mr. Wood]

Typically take 5-6 days. My cash smart is like dat. So if u plan a trade, the 5-6 days movement may affect yr vuy price.

thks

But if long term then maybe ok. U tell me time in the market and not time the market wor.

dis is one of the thing i dun get abt endowus. dey say long term the price doesnt matter. but last time i ask why dun directly buy spdr frm sgx, dey say the spread is wide. ok, but if long term doesnt matter, why wud a few ticks spread matter? (at least for lump sum. if dca, maybe affect more, but den again, with such volatility, the move in 5-6 days likely will be more significant than the spread)

i totally get the endowus low fee, global diversify, rebate. but their other reasoning, i hesitate.

Btw, anyway to see the prospectus of all the funds in fund smart? Could not find the entire range on endowus website.

Now simi sai also all time high. Dun dare to jump in now.

prospectus or fund factsheet?
after u select a fund can see 3 links there. one of the links is prospectus
https://cdn.endowus.com/endowus-funddocs/SG9999000392_Aberdeen%20Standard%20European%20Opportunities%20Fund_Prospectus_20200707.pdf

https://cdn.endowus.com/endowus-funddocs/SG9999000392_Aberdeen%20Standard%20European%20Opportunities%20Fund_PHS_20200417.pdf

https://endowus.com/support/900002712123

i more interested in reading fund fact sheet.

 

[RedsYWNA]

thks
dis is one of the thing i dun get abt endowus. dey say long term the price doesnt matter. but last time i ask why dun directly buy spdr frm sgx, dey say the spread is wide. ok, but if long term doesnt matter, why wud a few ticks spread matter? (at least for lump sum. if dca, maybe affect more, but den again, with such volatility, the move in 5-6 days likely will be more significant than the spread)

i totally get the endowus low fee, global diversify, rebate. but their other reasoning, i hesitate.

I would consider Endowus for their CPF and perhaps SRS, but definitely not for my cash investment. They are really unmatched for their CPF options I feel.

 

[hwmook]

I would consider Endowus for their CPF and perhaps SRS, but definitely not for my cash investment. They are really unmatched for their CPF options I feel.

That's what I do. Endowus for CPF. Cash investments put elsewhere.

 

[tidalstorm]

Hi all, I just opened endowus account a few days ago and waiting for account to open. I know min amount is 10k . Can I put that 10k in cash account while deciding which investment portfolio to place ? Tia.

Answer is can. U deposit money into yr account. Got interest from uob kh one. But I think interest is low though.

Then u set investment goal and see how much u wan to invest then endowus will draw the money from yr account to invest in that goal

 

[s0crates]

Actually if you want to invest in relatively safe investments like bonds endowus is a good choice also, especially with SGD denominated fixed income solution being so damn expensive (A35) or low yield.

They have this webinar with PIMCO tonight, can sign up and have a listen. Will probably listen in when I am free and ask a few qns.

https://www.eventbrite.sg/e/meet-th...a-2-trillion-heavyweight-tickets-128982980567

That's what I do. Endowus for CPF. Cash investments put elsewhere.

 

[tidalstorm]

I would consider Endowus for their CPF and perhaps SRS, but definitely not for my cash investment. They are really unmatched for their CPF options I feel.

I got put cash into cash smart. Keep it as liquid as the interest in banks like sheet.

Can ask now us index at all time high, who still jumping in?

 

[s0crates]

dis is one of the thing i dun get abt endowus. dey say long term the price doesnt matter. but last time i ask why dun directly buy spdr frm sgx, dey say the spread is wide. ok, but if long term doesnt matter, why wud a few ticks spread matter? (at least for lump sum. if dca, maybe affect more, but den again, with such volatility, the move in 5-6 days likely will be more significant than the spread)

Still unnecessary cost leh - you can do it through Ibkr for ucits etfs lo. Anyway the Sgx spdr is really low volume and has 30%DWT, with expensive Sgx brokerage. No point if you ask me.

 

[tidalstorm]

thks



dis is one of the thing i dun get abt endowus. dey say long term the price doesnt matter. but last time i ask why dun directly buy spdr frm sgx, dey say the spread is wide. ok, but if long term doesnt matter, why wud a few ticks spread matter? (at least for lump sum. if dca, maybe affect more, but den again, with such volatility, the move in 5-6 days likely will be more significant than the spread)

i totally get the endowus low fee, global diversify, rebate. but their other reasoning, i hesitate.



prospectus or fund factsheet?
after u select a fund can see 3 links there. one of the links is prospectus
https://cdn.endowus.com/endowus-funddocs/SG9999000392_Aberdeen%20Standard%20European%20Opportunities%20Fund_Prospectus_20200707.pdf

https://cdn.endowus.com/endowus-funddocs/SG9999000392_Aberdeen%20Standard%20European%20Opportunities%20Fund_PHS_20200417.pdf

https://endowus.com/support/900002712123

i more interested in reading fund fact sheet.

Thanks. Too many funds but price at all time high...

 

[Mr. Wood]

Actually if you want to invest in relatively safe investments like bonds endowus is a good choice also, especially with SGD denominated fixed income solution being so damn expensive (A35) or low yield.

They have this webinar with PIMCO tonight, can sign up and have a listen. Will probably listen in when I am free and ask a few qns.

https://www.eventbrite.sg/e/meet-th...a-2-trillion-heavyweight-tickets-128982980567

heard pimco presentation be4. i thot dey explained quite well how dey are diff. dats why i thinking juz buy the 100% bond and forget abt the equity funds.

Still unnecessary cost leh - you can do it through Ibkr for ucits etfs lo. Anyway the Sgx spdr is really low volume and has 30%DWT, with expensive Sgx brokerage. No point if you ask me.

yah the part abt brokerage, i thot uobkh can literally buy frm sgx at $0 becoz alrdy earn frm endowus 0.4% fee. vol got market maker oso no prob. but dunno lah.

 

[Han Shot First]

dis is one of the thing i dun get abt endowus. dey say long term the price doesnt matter. but last time i ask why dun directly buy spdr frm sgx, dey say the spread is wide. ok, but if long term doesnt matter, why wud a few ticks spread matter? (at least for lump sum. if dca, maybe affect more, but den again, with such volatility, the move in 5-6 days likely will be more significant than the spread)

I think it is just an excuse.

The issue is that Endowus does not know how to do or implement (via their platform) or have the ability or capability to automate buying and selling of ETFs (on SGX, LSE (London Stock Exchange) or any stock exchange). ETF is a listed product i.e. listed and traded on a stock exchange. There are ETFs that are suitable for Singapore citizens to invest in (e.g. no estate tax or reduced withholding tax). However, I think because of the issue, Endowus promotes the use of actively managed unit trusts (which are expensive in Singapore even after the trailer fee rebate plus Access Fee = wrap fee) and downplays passively managed ETFs (e.g. Ireland-domiciled index ETFs).

The evidence also suggests that most actively managed unit trusts underperform passively managed (low cost) unit trusts and ETFs after expenses are taken into account.

Unit trusts are unlisted products. Processing of unit trusts is easier for Endowus (to implement via their platform) because Endowus just acts as a middleman, sending instructions (on client's behalf) to UOB Kay Hian to execute. I think Endowus depends on UOBKH to send the trades (i.e. buy and sell orders) to the unit trust fund managers. Because of the additional layer, that is why transactions take many business days to complete.

i totally get the endowus low fee, global diversify, rebate. but their other reasoning, i hesitate.

Low fee is good. But it could be lower (e.g. compare with other countries) especially for cash investments. This applies to all Singapore robo advisers.

I hesitate to use their actively managed equity unit trusts because as a financial adviser, Endowus is giving bad advice (i.e. advice that reduces the returns for clients but improves the returns for Endowus). As mentioned above, the evidence also suggests that most actively managed unit trusts underperform passively managed (low cost) unit trusts and ETFs after expenses are taken into account.

That said, I think it is good that Endowus exists and hope that they continue to survive and prosper. Hopefully the competition will improve the investing returns for all residents of Singapore.

 

[Okenba]

DFA has started etfs. Funds are increasingly a thing of the past.

If endowus is so big on DFA, they should be following how DFA is setting up etfs, though for now, I guess they can still use the reason that the etfs are not ucits compliant and therefore tax disadvantaged for SG.

 

[YouHeypiCanLiao]

I think it is just an excuse.

The issue is that Endowus does not know how to do or implement (via their platform) or have the ability or capability to automate buying and selling of ETFs (on SGX, LSE (London Stock Exchange) or any stock exchange). ETF is a listed product i.e. listed and traded on a stock exchange. There are ETFs that are suitable for Singapore citizens to invest in (e.g. no estate tax or reduced withholding tax). However, I think because of the issue, Endowus promotes the use of actively managed unit trusts (which are expensive in Singapore even after the trailer fee rebate plus Access Fee = wrap fee) and downplays passively managed ETFs (e.g. Ireland-domiciled index ETFs).

The evidence also suggests that most actively managed unit trusts underperform passively managed (low cost) unit trusts and ETFs after expenses are taken into account.

Unit trusts are unlisted products. Processing of unit trusts is easier for Endowus (to implement via their platform) because Endowus just acts as a middleman, sending instructions (on client's behalf) to UOB Kay Hian to execute. I think Endowus depends on UOBKH to send the trades (i.e. buy and sell orders) to the unit trust fund managers. Because of the additional layer, that is why transactions take many business days to complete.



Low fee is good. But it could be lower (e.g. compare with other countries) especially for cash investments. This applies to all Singapore robo advisers.

I hesitate to use their actively managed equity unit trusts because as a financial adviser, Endowus is giving bad advice (i.e. advice that reduces the returns for clients but improves the returns for Endowus). As mentioned above, the evidence also suggests that most actively managed unit trusts underperform passively managed (low cost) unit trusts and ETFs after expenses are taken into account.

That said, I think it is good that Endowus exists and hope that they continue to survive and prosper. Hopefully the competition will improve the investing returns for all residents of Singapore.

one silly and simple question, so say Schroder Asia at Endowus vs FSM.. long run endow will cheaper due to trailer rebate? Thanks

 

[YouHeypiCanLiao]

is it possible to compare the performance since EndowUs inception

max equity : SRS/Cash vs CPF vs Lion S&P500 ? (due to different allocation)

 

[RouK3ziLa]

DFA has started etfs. Funds are increasingly a thing of the past.

If endowus is so big on DFA, they should be following how DFA is setting up etfs, though for now, I guess they can still use the reason that the etfs are not ucits compliant and therefore tax disadvantaged for SG.

Tax is one .. another is currency impact

 

[Mr. Wood]

one silly and simple question, so say Schroder Asia at Endowus vs FSM.. long run endow will cheaper due to trailer rebate? Thanks

fsm still charge 0.8% platform fee? so platform fee endowus alrdy win. add rebate. so think endowus is better.

unless got really those no platform fee, no sales charge, no div handling fees, no anything then will win endowus.

 

[Mr. Wood]

is it possible to compare the performance since EndowUs inception

max equity : SRS/Cash vs CPF vs Lion S&P500 ? (due to different allocation)

asked be4. no such feature.

 

[YouHeypiCanLiao]

asked be4. no such feature.

actually they can la.. else how they can simulate one by one

 

[w1rbelw1nd]

I think it is just an excuse.

The issue is that Endowus does not know how to do or implement (via their platform) or have the ability or capability to automate buying and selling of ETFs (on SGX, LSE (London Stock Exchange) or any stock exchange). ETF is a listed product i.e. listed and traded on a stock exchange. There are ETFs that are suitable for Singapore citizens to invest in (e.g. no estate tax or reduced withholding tax). However, I think because of the issue, Endowus promotes the use of actively managed unit trusts (which are expensive in Singapore even after the trailer fee rebate plus Access Fee = wrap fee) and downplays passively managed ETFs (e.g. Ireland-domiciled index ETFs).

I hesitate to use their actively managed equity unit trusts because as a financial adviser, Endowus is giving bad advice (i.e. advice that reduces the returns for clients but improves the returns for Endowus). As mentioned above, the evidence also suggests that most actively managed unit trusts underperform passively managed (low cost) unit trusts and ETFs after expenses are taken into account.

I hesitate to use their actively managed equity unit trusts because as a financial adviser, Endowus is giving bad advice (i.e. advice that reduces the returns for clients but improves the returns for Endowus). As mentioned above, the evidence also suggests that most actively managed unit trusts underperform passively managed (low cost) unit trusts and ETFs after expenses are taken into account.

That is a big statement to make on their behalf. I don't know if there is any reason behind it, but I would not lump Dimensional funds in the same category of the standard actively managed unit trusts that are sold by Financial Advisors or Bank RMs. All of these Dimensional funds are low cost, even more diversified than index funds in terms of underlying holdings, and have been invested in a consistent manner.

Same goes for bond funds. If you actually think that holding A35 or MBH is a good deal at the current low interest rate environment, with their high duration risk, then you are pretty misinformed...

Low fee is good. But it could be lower (e.g. compare with other countries) especially for cash investments. This applies to all Singapore robo advisers.

We can all stick to IBKR + UCITs ETFs if we just look at it from a cost angle. What is stopping Tiger Brokers from launching a low cost RSP using VWRA with low minimum transaction cost, or even fractionalising the ETF for retail investors? Nothing.

As a owner of a >US$100k IBKR account I don't think any roboadvisors is going to make the cut (unless they charge <0.1%p.a.) unless they have good fixed income products (which Endowus happen to have). I don't want something that is not broken for me to be fixed. The existing broker + ETF experience works well. I rather have better and lower cost CPF and SRS investment option. And so happens that trade execution speed for those
matters a lot less.