Gaming Keyboard and Controller Latency

[Phen8210]

Well, that is interesting.

The "rapid trigger" feature would be immensely beneficial due to the fact that the switch physically bottoms out at a deep 4.0mm. It would also be beneficial for switches that exhibits a mushy feel, causing them to rise slowly, such as the Outemu browns.



Switches with a shorter distance to bottoming out typically do not encounter such an issue. Therefore, when such "technology" actually come into play, it means that one might feel more benefits opting for a switch with a shorter bottom out distance instead. Allow me to elaborate.

Firstly, I am uncertain about how others or elm feel when typing and gaming with switches that bottom out at 4.0mm. I personally do not bottom out on keys with a 4.0mm travel distance. Instead, I would press the key until it reaches its actuation point, and then intuitively release the key before it bottoms out. This is because my mind has already registered the input.

For several years, I have been utilizing such switches in that peculiar manner, and this is with numerous switches. I would be able to achieve near silent typing due to not bottoming out those switches, but there is actually a huge drawback to this which i did not realize at that point. I found out that I never quite developed a rhythm to typing, as I was constantly lifting/pressing the keys before its done resetting. Despite this, my WPM actually was still around 120, so I did not perceive it as a problem at the time.

After years of this unconventional typing approach, I decided to give other switches with higher actuation points and also lesser total travel distances a go. To my surprise, I was actually able to quickly adapt to those switches, and my typing style became normal. I no longer lift or press keys at the halfway point. As a result, my typing speed also permanently increased by ~15 WPM, and this is for the first time after many years, where I felt that the keyboard was on the same wavelength as me.

As a result, that 'rapid fire' wouldn't have been much use for me since i already eliminated the problem that puts me in scenarios where it would be useful.

I also don't think I will prefer pressing or lifting keys midway ever again

 

[elmariachi]

Well, that is interesting.

The "rapid trigger" feature would be immensely beneficial due to the fact that the switch physically bottoms out at a deep 4.0mm. It would also be beneficial for switches that exhibits a mushy feel, causing them to rise slowly, such as the Outemu browns.

View attachment 39729

Switches with a shorter distance to bottoming out typically do not encounter such an issue. Therefore, when such "technology" actually come into play, it means that one might feel more benefits opting for a switch with a shorter total travel distance instead. Allow me to elaborate.

Firstly, I am uncertain about how others or elm feel when typing and gaming with switches with 4.0mm. I personally do not bottom out on keys with a 4.0mm travel distance. Instead, I would press the key until it reaches its actuation point, and then intuitively release the key before it bottoms out. This is because my mind has already registered the input.

For several years, I have been utilizing 4.0mm switches in that peculiar manner, and this is with numerous switches. I would be able to achieve near silent typing due to not bottoming out those switches, but there is actually a huge drawback to this which i did not realize at that point. I found out that I never quite developed a rhythm to typing, as I was constantly lifting/pressing the keys before its done resetting. Despite this, my WPM actually was still around 120, so I did not perceive it as a problem at the time.

After years of this unconventional typing approach, I decided to give other switches with higher actuation points and also lower total travel distances a go. To my surprise, I was actually able to quickly adapt to those switches, and my typing style actually became normal. I no longer felt myself lifting or pressing the keys at halfway point. As a result, my typing speed also permanently increased by ~15 WPM, and this is for the first time after many years, where I felt that the keyboard was on the same wavelength as me.

As a result, that 'rapid fire' wouldn't have been much use for me since i already eliminated the problem that puts me in scenarios where it would be useful.

I also don't think I will prefer pressing or lifting keys midway ever again

Maximum actuation point is 4mm but mine is set to 1.3mm on all keys except WASD and a couple of others which I set to 0.7mm. I only set 4mm to my windows key so that I don't actuate that accidentally when gaming.

The reset point is great for strafing or peeking and taking cover. Something I noticed that helps alot than to wait for it to go back to the fixed actuation point on conventional switches. With rapid trigger, the minute I'm intending to get off the key, it resets. I can also advanced configure the upstroke and downstroke actuation and reset points manually but so far I didn't feel the need to do that it's plenty fast for what I use it for. I think depends on the games you play. With games that have very low TTK, you can almost certainly appreciate it.

Having said that I do admit that my brain still used to fully actuating the key even if it's not 4mm, it's certainly more than even what I've set at 0.7mm. Main difference that benefited me is actually rapid trigger more than anything.

 

[Phen8210]

Maximum actuation point is 4mm but mine is set to 1.3mm on all keys except WASD and a couple of others which I set to 0.7mm. I only set 4mm to my windows key so that I don't actuate that accidentally when gaming.

The reset point is great for strafing or peeking and taking cover. Something I noticed that helps alot than to wait for it to go back to the fixed actuation point on conventional switches. With rapid trigger, the minute I'm intending to get off the key, it resets. I can also advanced configure the upstroke and downstroke actuation and reset points manually but so far I didn't feel the need to do that it's plenty fast for what I use it for. I think depends on the games you play. With games that have very low TTK, you can almost certainly appreciate it.

Having said that I do admit that my brain still used to fully actuating the key even if it's not 4mm, it's certainly more than even what I've set at 0.7mm. Main difference that benefited me is actually rapid trigger more than anything.

I understand that with "rapid trigger", it allows you to register the key at any point before it resets. However, it's better to identify the root cause of the problem that has to do with the physical keys not being fully returned on time because switches that bottom out with 4.0 mm are physically impossible for rapid key presses.

A better solution would be to use a switch that doesn't physically bottom out as deep, as this would result in faster return times, which makes it more suitable for rapid key presses. With a switch that bottoms out at 3.x mm, I no longer encounter the problem of pressing a key that is only midway up physically because it resets much faster compared to a 4.0mm switch. By doing this, you can press as fast as you want, and every press would be a full stroke from top to bottom, which is way better than sometimes pressing from the midway point and relying on "rapid trigger" to workaround the problem.

I understand the issue that you are having, but it may be better to address the root cause from the physical perspective, which resolves the problem altogether. I faced this problem myself quite some years ago, was hardcore gamer, and GE in CS:GO, so those strafing concerns you have I am fully aware of.

 

[elmariachi]

I understand that with "rapid trigger", it allows you to register the key at any point before it resets. However, it's better to identify the root cause of the problem that has to do with the physical keys not being fully returned on time because switches that bottom out with 4.0 mm are physically impossible for rapid key presses.

A better solution would be to use a switch that doesn't physically bottom out as deep, as this would result in faster return times, which makes it more suitable for rapid key presses. With a switch that bottoms out at 3.x mm, I no longer encounter the problem of pressing a key that is only midway up physically because it resets much faster compared to a 4.0mm switch. By doing this, you can press as fast as you want, and every press would be a full stroke from top to bottom, which is way better than sometimes pressing from the midway point and relying on "rapid trigger" to workaround the problem.

I understand the issue that you are having, but it may be better to address the root cause from the physical perspective, which resolves the problem altogether. I faced this problem myself quite some years ago, was hardcore gamer, and GE in CS:GO, so those strafing concerns you have I am fully aware of.

I kind of understand what you're saying but I can set the actuation point as low as 0.15mm to as high as 4mm. Obviously none of my keys are set to 4mm except the windows key. Unless you're trying to say that even with actuation points at 4mm, your brain still registers you to press it all the way down even if you've set your keys to actuate to say 0.7mm?

 

[Phen8210]

I kind of understand what you're saying but I can set the actuation point as low as 0.15mm to as high as 4mm. Obviously none of my keys are set to 4mm except the windows key. Unless you're trying to say that even with actuation points at 4mm, your brain still registers you to press it all the way down even if you've set your keys to actuate to say 0.7mm?

Nope, as I mentioned, when I used switches with total travel of 4.00 mm, I was always pressing and releasing midway too, but didn't have to anymore after I swapped to switches with 3.4 mm keys since it eliminated the problem altogether for me. it's possible to unrealistically spam keys CPS >>> 12 with no problem, and this is with a full-range motion, full up and full down. I never found myself pressing a key midway ever after making the right change.

However, there are other factors that can affect it.. such as the springs and lube used and overall switch construction. I know some switches do spring up slower than others.

Overall, you can try if you wish to, not saying you must, I'm just sharing and offering some possible alternatives

 

[elmariachi]

Nope, as I mentioned, when I used switches with total travel of 4.00 mm, I was always pressing and releasing midway too, but didn't have to anymore after I swapped to switches with 3.4 mm keys since it eliminated the problem altogether for me. it's possible to unrealistically spam keys CPS >>> 12 with no problem, and this is with a full-range motion, full up and full down. I never found myself pressing a key midway ever after making the right change.

However, there are other factors that can affect it.. such as the springs and lube used and overall switch construction. I know some switches do spring up slower than others.

Overall, you can try if you wish to, not saying you must, I'm just sharing and offering some possible alternatives

Ah okay I get what you mean. My spare keyboard Cherry Reds are also 4mm total travel. I think the only one that's quite interesting so far is the K65 Mini with Speed Silvers with 1.2mm actuation and 3.4mm total travel. Need to try it out to see the difference but I get where you're coming from now.

 

[Hafi]

nice got USB passthrough port for my Yubikey, on my hoot list.

hooted Steelseries Apex 9 TKL (0.7ms on Rtings) on Prime Deal for $113, have to give up the USB passthru for the speed. The rest of other Steelseries models... TKL Pro, Apex 7 have red switches on the arrow keys, their OmniPoint switches doesn't cover all the switches on the kb (arrow keys excluded) and I was almost fooled if I have not looked at the layout manual.

Cannot pass off this deal since I already missed the Corsair K65 LUX and Rapidfire when they were on sales around $110 (now $160).

 

[Yongkit]

Prime days sales end in 2 hours

 

[Phen8210]

Prime days sales end in 2 hours

View attachment 39812

how come mini more expensive than tkl

 

[Yongkit]

how come mini more expensive than tkl

Oh is it which TKL?

 

[Yongkit]

Best price however it's clicky blue switch

 

[elmariachi]

View attachment 39814

Best price however it's clicky blue switch

https://www.amazon.sg/ASUS-ROG-NX-M...d=1683258158&sprefix=rog+azot,aps,370&sr=8-19
This one also a good board. No need Armoury Crate once you save to profiles. And you have 6 profiles you can save to. Very good wireless keyboard for both wired and wireless. 1.3ms wired and 3.7ms wireless. Fantastic battery life too. 5000mah battery onboard.

https://www.rtings.com/keyboard/reviews/asus/rog-falchion

 

[Phen8210]

View attachment 39814

Best price however it's clicky blue switch

Nowadays its normal to remove button and replace with silly LCD? I thought gamers like to take screenshots, but they removed the prtscrn button lol

 

[Yongkit]

Nowadays its normal to remove button and replace with silly LCD? I thought gamers like to take screenshots, but they removed the prtscrn button lol

its in the shortcut key P + FN

 

[Yongkit]

https://www.amazon.sg/ASUS-ROG-NX-M...d=1683258158&sprefix=rog+azot,aps,370&sr=8-19
This one also a good board. No need Armoury Crate once you save to profiles. And you have 6 profiles you can save to. Very good wireless keyboard for both wired and wireless. 1.3ms wired and 3.7ms wireless. Fantastic battery life too. 5000mah battery onboard.

https://www.rtings.com/keyboard/reviews/asus/rog-falchion

Looks good, looking at the Keystrokes data :


I have a few MX red kb now, after experience the MX Speed (Corsair K65 RGB mini) I have difficult time to go back MX red due to latency I currently experiments.
(I do on the research to get a wireless TKL for backup though)

 

[Phen8210]

its in the shortcut key P + FN

View attachment 39822

I am aware but it's not for me. There shouldn't be a need to require additional modifiers for basic things.

75 layout already only has bare minimum keys so further replacing keys with a silly LCD doesn't even make sense.

If I were the developer, I would integrate a hot-swap profile that can be activated with the FN key which is way faster and there are a lot of ways to let the user know which profile and setting they are using without an LCD.

I won't consider these types of keyboard that sacrifice functionality on a compact keyboard. Apex 9 tkl also has same problem, literally cutting off 3 key when there is obviously space to put them on the bottom row.

I know kb manufacturer want to make their kb standout from the rest so they do this. Next time they going to put LCD on their mice? .

Looks good, looking at the Keystrokes data :
View attachment 39823

I have a few MX red kb now, after experience the MX Speed (Corsair K65 RGB mini) I have difficult time to go back MX red due to latency I currently experiments.
(I do on the research to get a wireless TKL for backup though)

View attachment 39824

I will never go back to those dinosaur mx switches too,

 

[Yongkit]

I am aware but it's not for me. There shouldn't be a need to require additional modifiers for basic things.

75 layout already only has bare minimum keys so further replacing keys with a silly LCD doesn't even make sense.

If I were the developer, I would integrate a hot-swap profile that can be activated with the FN key which is way faster and there are a lot of ways to let the user know which profile and setting they are using without an LCD.

I won't consider these types of keyboard that sacrifice functionality on a compact keyboard. Apex 9 tkl also has same problem, literally cutting off 3 key when there is obviously space to put them on the bottom row.

I know kb manufacturer want to make their kb standout from the rest so they do this. Next time they going to put LCD on their mice? .

60% kb now

I will never go back to those dinosaur mx switches too,

ya only on necessary basis for dinosaur mx switches

 

[Phen8210]

Ya i mean ppl buy 75 cos they want the key but they go remove it

 

[Yongkit]

Ya i mean ppl buy 75 cos they want the key but they go remove it

Opps icic what you mean now

 

[jkohlc2]

anyone order wooting two he direct before?