[GE2025] Punggol GRC

[hdsouza]

You said oppo is not good enough yet to rule the country.

Dont you think that it is a risk to vote oppo for the sake of voting oppo?
What if there is a freak result and all oppo win the seats?

This freak result came about on 30 May 1959. What track record did the lot who won that election have at that point?

 

[Ec7171]

This freak result came about on 30 May 1959. What track record did the lot who won that election have at that point?

In my view , freak result is when your mind and action dont align.

I dont consider that 30 May 1959 as a freak result.
---------------------------------from wikipedia
The current opposition party, People's Action Party, announced to contest 51 seats in the election; they released their election manifesto entitled "The Tasks Ahead", and outlined the party's five-year plan to address acute problems faced by Singapore. It called for a series of policies and programmes such as the provision of low-cost housing, the strengthening of education, as well as the development of industries thus improving employment opportunities for the local population. These were in addition to the goal of attaining independence for Singapore through a merger with the Federation of Malaya.
------------------------------------------------
Back then PAP
1 ) has a 5 year plan.
2) Has a goal to attain independence.
3) contest all 51 seats to be able to rule the country.

Today
1) no 5 year plan
2) goal is to provide alternative views
3) contest not enough seats to rule the country

 

[carlongerdidu93]

 

[hdsouza]

In my view , freak result is when your mind and action dont align.

I dont consider that 30 May 1959 as a freak result.
---------------------------------from wikipedia
The current opposition party, People's Action Party, announced to contest 51 seats in the election; they released their election manifesto entitled "The Tasks Ahead", and outlined the party's five-year plan to address acute problems faced by Singapore. It called for a series of policies and programmes such as the provision of low-cost housing, the strengthening of education, as well as the development of industries thus improving employment opportunities for the local population. These were in addition to the goal of attaining independence for Singapore through a merger with the Federation of Malaya.
------------------------------------------------
Back then PAP
1 ) has a 5 year plan.
2) Has a goal to attain independence.
3) contest all 51 seats to be able to rule the country.

Today
1) no 5 year plan
2) goal is to provide alternative views
3) contest not enough seats to rule the country

What's your point?

You don't consider it a freak election result with hindsight shaping your argument? Or are you suggesting it's not freak just because they had a "plan"?

Well, every party running in this GE has a manifesto too. So are you discounting them (since you cited a freak election result could happen) then because they don't run in enough constituencies to form a government?

Therein lies the inherent paradox of how you perceive a freak election result...

 

[Ec7171]

What's your point?

You don't consider it a freak election result with hindsight shaping your argument? Or are you suggesting it's not freak just because they had a "plan"?

Well, every party running in this GE has a manifesto too. So are you discounting them (since you cited a freak election result could happen) then because they don't run in enough constituencies to form a government?

Therein lies the inherent paradox of how you perceive a freak election result...

First part, what is your definition of a freak result.

I already stated that a freak result is when Voters wanted incumbent to rule the country but vote for oppo.

Second part is in 1959 PAP had that ambitious to take over and lead Singapore . As far as i hear most oppo , i dont feel that there is anyone that want to lead Singapore other than provide an alternative voice.

What is the point of an oppo party if they openly say that they dont think or dont want to lead Singapore?

 

[hdsouza]

First part, what is your definition of a freak result.

I already stated that a freak result is when Voters wanted incumbent to rule the country but vote for oppo.

And how would you determine this group beyond the propaganda PAP churns out? Let's be honest - does anyone genuinely vote for the candidate(s) he wants to lose?

If I vote for the opposition (notwithstanding my vote being constrained to my constituency), I am voting for the opposition (without consideration for the PAP) and am fully cognizant this could lead to a transfer of power however remote the odds may be.

Second part is in 1959 PAP had that ambitious to take over and lead Singapore . As far as i hear most oppo , i dont feel that there is anyone that want to lead Singapore other than provide an alternative voice.

What is the point of an oppo party if they openly say that they dont think or dont want to lead Singapore?

This twofold argument is inherently contradictory, but I will address this point by point.

PAP may have had a "plan" in 1959 even if they contested in all the seats, but how could you be sure how effective they would be in each of the following 3 scenarios:
(i) They don't win the election and remain the opposition
(ii) They lead a minority government (does not command the majority, but is the party with the most seats in parliament)
(iii) They form a majority government (which was what happened)

You do realize the 3 distinct outcomes would have had significantly different levels of success in terms of them being able to roll out their agenda right? Once again, if you voted for the PAP in 1959, how do you know for a fact (iii) would happen? What if you voted for PAP and (i) happened?

As for the fact the opposition says they are not forming the government - what on earth do you seriously expect? You expect the WP to say they will form the government when only contesting 26 seats? If they did, would you take them seriously then?

 

[carlongerdidu93]

Jackson Au 區致銘's FB Post:

[Army Buddies]
One of the best parts of this campaign is reconnecting with long-lost friends.
Bumped into my old buddy Wen Jun during our walkabout at One Punggol this morning — he even sent me a throwback photo of us in Charlie Company, 46th batch of ASLC at SISPEC. Miss my brothers in green!

Incidentally, one of WP’s manifesto proposals is to better recognise the sacrifices of NSFs: and provide a median NS “salary” (not allowance) at a living wage of at least $1,600, with CPF contributions.
It’s the least we can do for those who give up so much for the rest of us.

This would only amount to an overall tiny amount in MINDEF’s 2025 budget, the largest in Singapore’s national budget, projected at $23.44B (about 3% of our GDP).
There is room for stronger scrutiny of defence spending too - especially when $22B went towards a single line-item estimate named “Military Expenditure”!

P.S. I’m the one seated in No.4 on the right!

#GE2025 #wpsg #WorkingforSingapore

 

[Jinyu]

You said oppo is not good enough yet to rule the country.

Dont you think that it is a risk to vote oppo for the sake of voting oppo?
What if there is a freak result and all oppo win the seats?

That would not be the freak then...it mean no one like pap anymore.

 

[28cMostlyCloudy]

Jackson Au 區致銘's FB Post:

[Army Buddies]
One of the best parts of this campaign is reconnecting with long-lost friends.
Bumped into my old buddy Wen Jun during our walkabout at One Punggol this morning — he even sent me a throwback photo of us in Charlie Company, 46th batch of ASLC at SISPEC. Miss my brothers in green!

Incidentally, one of WP’s manifesto proposals is to better recognise the sacrifices of NSFs: and provide a median NS “salary” (not allowance) at a living wage of at least $1,600, with CPF contributions.
It’s the least we can do for those who give up so much for the rest of us.

This would only amount to an overall tiny amount in MINDEF’s 2025 budget, the largest in Singapore’s national budget, projected at $23.44B (about 3% of our GDP).
There is room for stronger scrutiny of defence spending too - especially when $22B went towards a single line-item estimate named “Military Expenditure”!

P.S. I’m the one seated in No.4 on the right!

#GE2025 #wpsg #WorkingforSingapore

And previously someone try to fake news here by saying he never serve a single day of NS. Trying to sow discord and stir sai.

Luckily mod do the needful and ban him

 

[Ec7171]

And how would you determine this group beyond the propaganda PAP churns out? Let's be honest - does anyone genuinely vote for the candidate(s) he wants to lose?

If I vote for the opposition (notwithstanding my vote being constrained to my constituency), I am voting for the opposition (without consideration for the PAP) and am fully cognizant this could lead to a transfer of power however remote the odds may be.

Look at how most oppo is campaigning about?

Quote from CNA
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/sin...-pritam-singh-stress-tested-5086856?cid=FBcna
He also reiterated the point that there was "no way" the WP could form the next Government as it was not even contesting one-third of the seats.

"The PAP will certainly govern for the next five years. So give Singapore a chance to build - to grow - a more balanced political system," he said, adding that the WP is working towards a "balanced political system to check the PAP and prevent it from acting however it wishes".

This twofold argument is inherently contradictory, but I will address this point by point.

PAP may have had a "plan" in 1959 even if they contested in all the seats, but how could you be sure how effective they would be in each of the following 3 scenarios:
(i) They don't win the election and remain the opposition
(ii) They lead a minority government (does not command the majority, but is the party with the most seats in parliament)
(iii) They form a majority government (which was what happened)

You do realize the 3 distinct outcomes would have had significantly different levels of success in terms of them being able to roll out their agenda right? Once again, if you voted for the PAP in 1959, how do you know for a fact (iii) would happen? What if you voted for PAP and (i) happened?

(i) If there is a goal , and you believe in it, you will stick to it the next time round.
(ii) As voter, you just hope that your vote make them rule the country. So even a minority , they still rule the country.

As for the fact the opposition says they are not forming the government - what on earth do you seriously expect? You expect the WP to say they will form the government when only contesting 26 seats? If they did, would you take them seriously then?

If im an oppo party today , i dont really like us to use immigration to build up numbers to cover for our shortfall in TFR. My ultimate goal will be on how to increase TFR to a certain number in 10 yrs time.

My plan will be how to achieve it in 2 terms of 5yr plan. Today i might be having 26 seats. Next election , i will plan to contest more so that i can achieve that goal.

That is what i want from an oppo party with a goal to lead a country. Whats the point of asking 9% to 7% etc... making small tweaks like this.

 

[hdsouza]

Look at how most oppo is campaigning about?

Quote from CNA
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/sin...-pritam-singh-stress-tested-5086856?cid=FBcna
He also reiterated the point that there was "no way" the WP could form the next Government as it was not even contesting one-third of the seats.

"The PAP will certainly govern for the next five years. So give Singapore a chance to build - to grow - a more balanced political system," he said, adding that the WP is working towards a "balanced political system to check the PAP and prevent it from acting however it wishes".


(i) If there is a goal , and you believe in it, you will stick to it the next time round.
(ii) As voter, you just hope that your vote make them rule the country. So even a minority , they still rule the country.

With your mindset, I am not surprised why Pritam Singh and the WP needs to spell it out factually. They cannot form a WP government - which part of this do you not understand?

If you want to go into the permutations for a coalition government, Pritam Singh may still not neccessarilly be the PM even if PAP were to lose power. What if WP wins 10 seats and PSP wins all 13 they contest in? In this scenario, Leong Mun Wai will be your PM.

If im an oppo party today , i dont really like us to use immigration to build up numbers to cover for our shortfall in TFR. My ultimate goal will be on how to increase TFR to a certain number in 10 yrs time.

My plan will be how to achieve it in 2 terms of 5yr plan. Today i might be having 26 seats. Next election , i will plan to contest more so that i can achieve that goal.

That is what i want from an oppo party with a goal to lead a country. Whats the point of asking 9% to 7% etc... making small tweaks like this.

Yeah, so let's go back to the point you harped about - your worry of a "freak election" result.

Let's consider this scenario - it is 30 May 1959 and you want PAP to form a government but not too strong a mandate (similar to the scenario you mentioned above), how would you vote? PAP? Opposition? Or spoil your vote?

It does not matter if PAP is contesting in all 51 seats because they do not have any track record to speak of (at the 1955 Legislative Assembly, they only won 3 seats - David Marshall's Labour Front won 10). So given PAP (let's assume you buy into PAP's vision hook, line and sinker) has no track record of governance (and merely won 3 seats in 1955), how would you vote to achieve your desired outcome (ie. PAP forming a majority government with a slim majority)?

This is akin to sitting for an exam as a straight A-student, but wanting to score the lowest possible marks to get your A. How are you going to achieve that (let's assume you are that perfect you can individually control your destiny for every question and achieve any specific score - ie. if the cut-off for A is 75, you want to score exactly 75 - as intended)? How do you know how others will perform in the exam to know what the minimum score for an A is?

This is the sort of silly examples PAP is using to win the votes of this group of individuals.

Evidently, given you cannot divide your vote into 0.6 for PAP and 0.4 for opposition (let's assume that's your intended representation), you basically just have a simple consideration - which of these is more likely: (i) an opposition wipeout or (ii) a freak election result that leads to a transfer of power? The best you can do is estimate this and cast your vote accordingly.

 

[deemax]

Yesterday PAP Punggol rally by the 4 actual candidates felt more like a year end self appraisal. Both YWL and SXL at least able to have some accounts of their contribution and achievement at the ground level in their zone.

Put2cherry has none of that to talk about, had to resort to sell snake oil about the malls, the parks, the SIT.

GKY probably first time in his life stepping into Punggol on nomination day, can't fault him for selling snake oil only.

Pretty underwhelming rally made worse by all the irrelevant NPCs talking at the start of the rally.

 

[Ec7171]

With your mindset, I am not surprised why Pritam Singh and the WP needs to spell it out factually. They cannot form a WP government - which part of this do you not understand?



Yeah, so let's go back to the point you harped about - your worry of a "freak election" result.

Let's consider this scenario - it is 30 May 1959 and you want PAP to form a government but not too strong a mandate (similar to the scenario you mentioned above), how would you vote? PAP? Opposition? Or spoil your vote?

It does not matter if PAP is contesting in all 51 seats because they do not have any track record to speak of (at the 1955 Legislative Assembly, they only won 3 seats - David Marshall's Labour Front won 10). So given PAP (let's assume you buy into PAP's vision hook, line and sinker) has no track record of governance (and merely won 3 seats in 1955), how would you vote to achieve your desired outcome (ie. PAP forming a majority government, but not making a clean sweep)?

This is akin to sitting for an exam as a straight A-student, but wanting to score the lowest possible marks to get your A. How are you going to achieve that? How do you know how others will perform in the exam to know what the minimum score for an A is?

This is the sort of silly examples PAP is using to win the votes of this group of individuals...

Because oppo want to be alternative voice. The talk but not do type of people.

There is no two minds kind of thing in me and thats the difference we have. I will say most if not all countries/people will vote for the party that you want them to lead the country.

Who do you vote in a singing competition ? you vote for the one who you want believe is the best singer just like all voting events. The best if not the most suitable.

We are probably the only country that vote for an alternative voice for alternative voice sake.

 

[hdsouza]

Because oppo want to be alternative voice. The talk but not do type of people.

There is no two minds kind of thing in me and thats the difference we have. I will say most if not all countries/people will vote for the party that you want them to lead the country.

Who do you vote in a singing competition ? you vote for the one who you want believe is the best singer just like all voting events. The best if not the most suitable.

We are probably the only country that vote for an alternative voice for alternative voice sake.

You just answered your own question - individuals vote for the candidate that best represent their interests however misguided they are.

If you cannot control the scenario you described, how is it possible for you to identify this group (much less raise the spectre of a freak election given this is their will)?

If anything, you have protest voters precisely based on this scenario because the opposition - individually - cannot form a government. What makes you think they have even bothered considering a "freak election result" as PAP likes to harp?

Furthermore, what rational basis do you have to suggest "freak election results" are not necessarily better? The Nordic nations - with no exception - are all run by coalition governments (and have been for decades). What gives PAP any business to determine what are "freak election results" just because the outcome is not in their favour?

 

[Ec7171]

You just answered your own question - individuals vote for the candidate that best represent their interests however misguided they are.

If you cannot control the scenario you described, how is it possible for you to identify this group (much less raise the spectre of a freak election given this is their will)?

If anything, you have protest voters precisely based on this scenario because the opposition - individually - cannot form a government. What makes you think they have even bothered considering a "freak election result" as PAP likes to harp?

i said the best singer. Not the singer that sing the songs you liked most.

There is a difference in choosing the best in class and the best represent their interests. But then again , everyone has their own right to use whatever method they deem fit to choose.

To me , if one day there is a freak result. I will just accept it . But by then it is too late. And sometimes we learn our lesson by our ears / mind , sometimes we have to do it head on.

Some ppl like LKY has a good record in his vision. I am not saying everything he say is 100% right. But what is the chances that he is wrong? We have to judge ourselves.

 

[Jinyu]

Because oppo want to be alternative voice. The talk but not do type of people.

There is no two minds kind of thing in me and thats the difference we have. I will say most if not all countries/people will vote for the party that you want them to lead the country.

Who do you vote in a singing competition ? you vote for the one who you want believe is the best singer just like all voting events. The best if not the most suitable.

We are probably the only country that vote for an alternative voice for alternative voice sake.

U dare to bring out the only country word.....we are the only country that is govern by one party for many years!
Alternative voice is always being the minority and finally pap listen more because of more opp voters.

So don't use this as an example. Your so called of freak result is not substantiated. Past few election it has always been 60 40 kind of mandate. Hardcore pap supporter will always be hardcore. Take it as a test result pap score 60 percent to me is Abit too high but I don't think it will fail to below 50 percent.

Why not think of another way where pap to be more listening to people and try to win those hardcore opp over. Don't worry when times come pap is as good as 1959 leadership you will see healthy pap margin again.

 

[hdsouza]

That would not be the freak then...it mean no one like pap anymore.

This tyrant will beg to differ

 

[hdsouza]

i said the best singer. Not the singer that sing the songs you liked most.

There is a difference in choosing the best in class and the best represent their interests. But then again , everyone has their own right to use whatever method they deem fit to choose.

The best by whose standards? Your best singer may be different from mine? My point is, given you have no definitive way of qualifying best, what business have you got to call an undesired outcome a "freak election"? So only your desired outcome is "normal"?

To me , if one day there is a freak result. I will just accept it . But by then it is too late. And sometimes we learn our lesson by our ears / mind , sometimes we have to do it head on.

Some ppl like LKY has a good record in his vision. I am not saying everything he say is 100% right. But what is the chances that he is wrong? We have to judge ourselves.

You will accept it when that day comes. Many have been accepting it since 3 June 1959 and can't wait for this nightmare to end.

 

[tanbrave]

SXL alone can win any Oppo

Can win by selucing ?Give moi mandate.I straight hot,no man date for me.The church will scold me ,by the Father.

 

[Ec7171]

U dare to bring out the only country word.....we are the only country that is govern by one party for many years!
Alternative voice is always being the minority and finally pap listen more because of more opp voters.

So don't use this as an example. Your so called of freak result is not substantiated. Past few election it has always been 60 40 kind of mandate. Hardcore pap supporter will always be hardcore. Take it as a test result pap score 60 percent to me is Abit too high but I don't think it will fail to below 50 percent.

Why not think of another way where pap to be more listening to people and try to win those hardcore opp over. Don't worry when times come pap is as good as 1959 leadership you will see healthy pap margin again.

They did not listen to you or you did not understand what they said?

As far as im concerned, they do explain alot of things with alot of datas out there than in 1959 or even 2001.

And if i read it right , you think PAP is good in leading the country. And you think they will listen to you more because you vote others? Just like Trump who thinks that i raise tariffs so all countries will come and offer deals?