General S-REITs Discussion Thread

[DevilPlate]

no, it dosnt make sense to me why paying dividend or not makes a difference in ur case. its the same as saying "i dunno how long the bear market will last, so i will put my money in XXX, then i will periodically sell a small portion of XXX to pay for the interest incurred."

What u said totally dont make any sense to me either....whahhahaa

 

[DevilPlate]

Very funny one....I go tcss at property sub forum.....some say stock market bo baojiak....property bestest.

Come here some said property high leverage high risk whahahah
And then got some DCA herd, got dividend herd and got some all put in FD, TBills type etc whahhaha

 

[revhappy]

Very funny one....I go tcss at property sub forum.....some say stock market bo baojiak....property bestest.

Come here some said property high leverage high risk whahahah
And then got some DCA herd, got dividend herd and got some all put in FD, TBills type etc whahhaha

Property, you need to be street smart, know the micro market supply demand dynamics very well and then you must be going after desperate sellers and strike a good deal. Same thing while buying cars also. Look for expats who want to quickly dispose their car and leave Singapore. Always get a good deal and don't become a carrot buying from showroom falling for the marketing gimmicks.

In case of stocks, you can take the average route of DCA and index funds, but again not everyone has the patience for it. People want to make quick money and buy BABA, NIO and SE and ARKK and then lose all their money.

So bottom line, asset class is not the problem, the people are the problem.

 

[DevilPlate]

Property, you need to be street smart, know the micro market supply demand dynamics very well and then you must be going after desperate sellers and strike a good deal. Same thing while buying cars also. Look for expats who want to quickly dispose their car and leave Singapore. Always get a good deal and don't become a carrot buying from showroom falling for the marketing gimmicks.

In case of stocks, you can take the average route of DCA and index funds, but again not everyone has the patience for it. People want to make quick money and buy BABA, NIO and SE and ARKK and then lose all their money.

So bottom line, asset class is not the problem, the people are the problem.

For property, my time make more sense to go for new launches vs resale because small price disparity.

Now probably hunt for resale EC imo make more sense.

 

[homer123]

so end up go buy a Freehold Landed in JB to make himself feel better

The funniest thing is when US stock market was booming for past decade....he was advocating 1M65 and then only after 2022 correction then decide to all in his CPF OA into SPY at age 50.

At age 50yo, then do 1 lump sum into stock market.....got enough runway anot?
He probably do not need the CPF OA monies for his retirement but what about his followers? LOL

It seems like he not only missed the boat on Spore private property but also the best bull run in US market during the long ZIRP years from GFC to 2022 by dumping most of his money in 2.5 to 4% CPF acounts to achieve 1M65..

 

[Mephist0pheLes]

It seems like he not only missed the boat on Spore private property but also the best bull run in US market during the long ZIRP years from GFC to 2022 by dumping most of his money in 2.5 to 4% CPF acounts to achieve 1M65..

there's a limit to how much u can put inside CPF, so i dun think what he has inside his cpf is most of his money. i think he mentioned his 1 mil in CPF-OA is less than 20% of his investible wealth or something. and i also dun think he didnt invest in S&P between GFC and 2022.

and he dont buy property dosnt mean he left his money sitting around. he used the money to buy businesses.

I think to criticize a person, u need to first know what he did.

 

[DevilPlate]

there's a limit to how much u can put inside CPF, so i dun think what he has inside his cpf is most of his money. i think he mentioned his 1 mil in CPF-OA is less than 20% of his investible wealth or something. and i also dun think he didnt invest in S&P between GFC and 2022.

and he dont buy property dosnt mean he left his money sitting around. he used the money to buy businesses.

I think to criticize a person, u need to first know what he did.

In the first place, he himself as a “public” figure with decent number of followers shdnt even criticise other asset classes and strategies without enough knowledge. like blind leading all the blinds

 

[Mephist0pheLes]

In the first place, he himself as a “public” figure with decent number of followers shdnt even criticise other asset classes and strategies without enough knowledge. like blind leading all the blinds

i think he dont have in depth knowledge in many areas, but i personally dont see any financially fatal views from him, and the ppl that follow him are typically the layman and probably the ones most likely to be scammed by financial advisors or self-proclaimed investment gurus and do much worse than putting their money in CPF.

 

[homer123]

https://dividendpassiveincome.blogspot.com/2023/09/reits-and-dividend-investment-strategy.html

 

[DevilPlate]

https://dividendpassiveincome.blogspot.com/2023/09/reits-and-dividend-investment-strategy.html

I have been talking about potential long secular bear market.
Historically, it can stretch up to 20years…..

How many 20 years we have yah? Yng adults benefit as they js started DCA. Accumulate cheap for 10-20 years and potentially see boom town for subsequent next 10-20years just nice for their retirement hahaha

 

[Mephist0pheLes]

https://dividendpassiveincome.blogspot.com/2023/09/reits-and-dividend-investment-strategy.html

Is this considered a public figure sharing his view without much knowledge too?

 

[DevilPlate]

Is this considered a public figure sharing his view without much knowledge too?

If u ask me which u didn’t, No.

I duno who this blogger s haha….not famous hahaha

To add: AK not considered a public figure…..
1M65 guy got simi endorsement from CPF right? (Just googled and he received public sector transformation award in 2018)

 

[stanlawj]

This guy has a habit of dissing other people .. For his age group, he completely missed the Spore property boom and has been sour grape about people of his age group with multiple properties ..

You miss out a big difference: He is not leveraged.
His age group that you mentioned with multiple properties are probably still leveraged and need to sell something to get cash. His bank loans are probably taken by his companies under company name, not under personal name.

Recall that liquidity is king. Property is much harder to sell at full or above valuation than stocks. Of course, if sell below valuation, property will be easy to sell.

Don't make the mistake of equating liquidity vs asset.
Ever heard of illiquid asset?

Also the survivor bias: for every successful property investor who made it, there are many more who lost money.

I could also point out, the majority of you high income Ivy-league grad slaves with properties still totally lost to Eric Chiew or Chicken Genius. The comparison never ends. Everyone is wired differently.

 

[DevilPlate]

You miss out a big difference: He is not leveraged.
His age group that you mentioned with multiple properties are probably still leveraged and need to sell something to get cash. His bank loans are probably taken by his companies under company name, not under personal name.

Recall that liquidity is king. Property is much harder to sell at full or above valuation than stocks. Of course, if sell below valuation, property will be easy to sell.

Don't make the mistake of equating liquidity vs asset.
Ever heard of illiquid asset?

Also the survivor bias: for every successful property investor who made it, there are many more who lost money.

I could also point out, the majority of you high income Ivy-league grad slaves with properties still totally lost to Eric Chiew or Chicken Genius. The comparison never ends. Everyone is wired differently.

U js dont get it.

It is just like we goto respect every race and religions and not going around bashing other religions even if u believe your God/belief is truly da best.

 

[revhappy]

no, it dosnt make sense to me why paying dividend or not makes a difference in ur case. its the same as saying "i dunno how long the bear market will last, so i will put my money in XXX, then i will periodically sell a small portion of XXX to pay for the interest incurred."

They are 2 different investment approaches. Growth investing is when companies dont need to make profit now to pay dividends. Index investing is pretty much growth investing.

But dividend investing is about picking stocks which are making profits NOW and not some promise of profits in future. Dividend investors typically put lots of effort and look into the company financials and then see if they have a positive cashflow which is paid out as dividends. So dividend investors seek solace in the real cashflow.

Your philosophy about index investing is totally different. We must respect different schools of thought and try to understand their perspective.

 

[stanlawj]

U js dont get it.

It is just like we goto respect every race and religions and not going around bashing other religions even if u believe your God/belief is truly da best.

The bashing is appropriate for someone who the time the purchase wrongly.

I don't know how you all can view the video and treat it as general bashing... i see it as directed towards those who don't know how to time the market appropriately. Anyone buying index ETFs also deserve to be bashed if DCA buy at near highs only. The basic common sense of buying after a severe deep correction is very basic timing method.

 

[DevilPlate]

The bashing is appropriate for someone who the time the purchase wrongly.

I don't know how you all can view the video and treat it as general bashing... i see it as directed towards those who don't know how to time correctly. Anyone buying index ETFs also deserve to be bashed if DCA buy at near highs only.

Hmm did we even watch the same video? LOL

 

[stanlawj]

Hmm did we even watch the same video? LOL

Go back and trace the thread,... I'm replying about the 1M65 REITs crashing comments.

A question for you: Why didn't you take equity loan to buy BTC or ETH or TSLA in 2015-2017 and 10X your portfolio? So should I say, you were silly to buy property?

Timing matters. That's the key point. Not about buying REITS is bad, indexing is worse than property, etc.

I used REITS & STI ETF from 2008 to 2021 to grow my CPF, not by buying private residential property. The total return will of course be worse, because the leverage is much lower.

 

[stanlawj]

They are 2 different investment approaches. Growth investing is when companies dont need to make profit now to pay dividends. Index investing is pretty much growth investing.

But dividend investing is about picking stocks which are making profits NOW and not some promise of profits in future. Dividend investors typically put lots of effort and look into the company financials and then see if they have a positive cashflow which is paid out as dividends. So dividend investors seek solace in the real cashflow.

Your philosophy about index investing is totally different. We must respect different schools of thought and try to understand their perspective.

Very good point, add to my long term knowledge toolbox.

 

[Mephist0pheLes]

They are 2 different investment approaches. Growth investing is when companies dont need to make profit now to pay dividends. Index investing is pretty much growth investing.

But dividend investing is about picking stocks which are making profits NOW and not some promise of profits in future. Dividend investors typically put lots of effort and look into the company financials and then see if they have a positive cashflow which is paid out as dividends. So dividend investors seek solace in the real cashflow.

Your philosophy about index investing is totally different. We must respect different schools of thought and try to understand their perspective.

Your definitions seem to be all jumbled up and give the impression that u have encountered these financial terms somewhere, and then imposed your own interpretation on them without finding out their actual meanings.

Growth companies are not necessary the ones that don't need to generate profits immediately to pay dividends. Nvidia and Apple are examples of growth companies that are highly profitable.

And index investing is not growth investing. Most indices are a blend of growth and value stocks. There is also a large body of academic research and empirical studies dedicated to value investing through low-cost funds and ETFs.

And sure, REITs tend to be value stocks, with healthy cashflow, and in fact REITs performance are generally in-line with value stocks performance, so I have never said REITs are necessary bad companies to invest in. My point of contention is people using dividend payout as a (primary) criterion for selecting stocks, which was shown to have no bearings on stock performance. Using Ben Felix analogy, choosing stock that pay dividends is no different from choosing only stocks with a name that start with A in your portfolio. There are great companies with name that start with A, but it doesn't mean the criterion is meaningful.

The other issue is that most REIT investors are ultimately stocks pickers, which is a fool's errand, although i understand most people have a cognitive bias to think they are special and better than most other people. And even if you put in a lot of effort and build a "diversified" portfolio of 10-20 REITs, you are still effectively betting on the real estate sector and subject to concentration risk.

And yea, there are many schools of thought and investment approaches, but some are backed by data and research, others are based on cumulation of misconceptions and appeals to psychological satisfactions.