General S-REITs Discussion Thread

[lunafan]

Why no excitement?
so quiet

don’t need to be excited when the price goes up
don’t need to be sad when the price goes down
long term investing is all about holding power

 

[DevilPlate]

don’t need to be excited when the price goes up
don’t need to be sad when the price goes down
long term investing is all about holding power

But Sreits is bad for long term even for bluechips unless u buy at near crash lows.

Unlike VWRA js DCA

 

[homer123]

My Sreits portfolio return for the last 10 years probably less than 50% after accounting for annual 5% yield and massive capital loss for holding some foreign Sreits whcih never recovered

 

[elvintay07]

My Sreits portfolio return for the last 10 years probably less than 50% after accounting for annual 5% yield and massive capital loss for holding some foreign Sreits whcih never recovered

Very brilliant already in my opinion. My uncle explained to us many years back. REIT can stay flat but 20 years later, you will get a free money making machine” that provides you unlimited cashflow even if you shake leg. My grand uncle has proven it with all the boring STI REITs/ stocks and property. Left a great legacy for his direct family members.

Although many of his siblings talk cock, none beat his gains. But “if” he put all the money in US, probably would have many x more but life is not perfect. Haha!

This is REITs play and boring like ****. Personally I feel that crash time is the best time to buy reit and go sleep. After that is to wait for carrots to drive up the prices

 

[DevilPlate]

Very brilliant already in my opinion. My uncle explained to us many years back. REIT can stay flat but 20 years later, you will get a free money making machine” that provides you unlimited cashflow even if you shake leg. My grand uncle has proven it with all the boring STI REITs/ stocks and property. Left a great legacy for his direct family members.

Although many of his siblings talk cock, none beat his gains. But “if” he put all the money in US, probably would have many x more but life is not perfect. Haha!

This is REITs play and boring like ****. Personally I feel that crash time is the best time to buy reit and go sleep. After that is to wait for carrots to drive up the prices

Provided u buy Sreits at low lah.
Yr uncle biggest gains likely from SG physical properties and 3 local banks.

buy Sreits at peak 2019 hold 10-20years maybe breakeven after dividends

Also moving forward im hoping CFA/CLR don’t suffer >1% capital erosion annually over 20years.
Stay flat is very good liao

 

[AST781]

Very brilliant already in my opinion. My uncle explained to us many years back. REIT can stay flat but 20 years later, you will get a free money making machine” that provides you unlimited cashflow even if you shake leg. My grand uncle has proven it with all the boring STI REITs/ stocks and property. Left a great legacy for his direct family members.

Although many of his siblings talk cock, none beat his gains. But “if” he put all the money in US, probably would have many x more but life is not perfect. Haha!

This is REITs play and boring like ****. Personally I feel that crash time is the best time to buy reit and go sleep. After that is to wait for carrots to drive up the prices

You have to understand the differences in the 2 models lah. US capital growth model as long as you don't take profit, its just paper growth, which means no real money in your pocket. So its great for those who don't mind to keep working, have a clearly defined time point in life where they want to stop working and from there just cash out their winnings. REITS model is once you build up a sizeable portfolio from reinvesting your past year's dividends, it gives you the amount you need for your expenditure, you can say bye bye to your job, best for those who don't like / want to work. So its not a matter of who talk cock or who sing song lah. Like strike lottery in US, you have the option of 1 time lump sum pay out or monthly payouts.

 

[highsulphur]

You have to understand the differences in the 2 models lah. US capital growth model as long as you don't take profit, its just paper growth, which means no real money in your pocket. So its great for those who don't mind to keep working, have a clearly defined time point in life where they want to stop working and from there just cash out their winnings. REITS model is once you build up a sizeable portfolio from reinvesting your past year's dividends, it gives you the amount you need for your expenditure, you can say bye bye to your job, best for those who don't like / want to work. So its not a matter of who talk cock or who sing song lah. Like strike lottery in US, you have the option of 1 time lump sum pay out or monthly payouts.

You do know you can sell shares and it works like a dividend payout right? From a pure finance point of view, there's no difference btw paying dividends and not paying dividends for a country like Singapore which doesn't tax capital gains or dividends

 

[fr33d0m]

You do know you can sell shares and it works like a dividend payout right? From a pure finance point of view, there's no difference btw paying dividends and not paying dividends for a country like Singapore which doesn't tax capital gains or dividends

The question will be whether you will afford to sell at worst time to raise cash when necessary and no one can foresee how long it will take for a comeback.

Dividend investing has its position not for no reason.

 

[sallybee]

Propnex rocketing today. I thought feds rates will only be out in mid Sep?

 

[snowcrabramyeon]

Propnex rocketing today. I thought feds rates will only be out in mid Sep?

The Fed controls interest rates related to USD. SGD interest rates have already dropped quite a bit.

 

[sallybee]

The Fed controls interest rates related to USD. SGD interest rates have already dropped quite a bit.

But the skyrocketing event only happen today 29 Aug when I understand that 1 Aug sgd interest rate already went down. How come now this then happen?

 

[TehSi99]

https://www.theedgesingapore.com/ca...weight-data-centre-reits-downgrades-mint-hold

 

[thretiredDad]

https://www.theedgesingapore.com/ca...weight-data-centre-reits-downgrades-mint-hold

Mapletree Industrial Trust (MINT SP/HOLD/Target: S$2.30)

• Limited exposure to hyperscale data centres. MINT owns 62 data centres located in Singapore (4), Japan (2), Canada (1) and the US (55). It did not disclose the power capacity of its data centres. Based on the latest FY 25 annual report, fitted hyperscale data centres accounted for 19.2% of MINT's rental income from its data centre portfolio as of Mar 25. MINT's US data centres are also geographically dispersed and fragmented across various states. Exposures to data centre hub Northern Virginia and Northern California are quite limited at 20.0% and 4.9% respectively of total portfolio valuation for data centres as of Mar 25.
• Susceptible to whims and fancies of enterprise tenants. Data centres serving enterprise customers, often smaller in size, are susceptible to non-renewals. Enterprise customers often prefer to outsource and migrate to the public cloud hosted by cloud service providers, such as AWS, Microsoft Azure and Google Cloud, which are better able to provide more cost-efficient solutions. Enterprise customers accounted for 26% of MINT'S rental income from its data centres as of Jun 25. Comparatively, cloud & hyperscale tenants accounted for a smaller 22% of total rental income.
• Downgrade to HOLD. Our new target price of S$2.30 is based on DDM (cost of equity:
  7.25% (previous: 7.0%), terminal growth: 1.5% (previous: 2.2%)).

 

[elvintay07]

Provided u buy Sreits at low lah.
Yr uncle biggest gains likely from SG physical properties and 3 local banks.

buy Sreits at peak 2019 hold 10-20years maybe breakeven after dividends

Also moving forward im hoping CFA/CLR don’t suffer >1% capital erosion annually over 20years.
Stay flat is very good liao

Sorry, I didn’t manage to reply this.
(1) Obviously he didn’t buy in 2019 but much earlier
(2) Even if he bought at peak, it doesn’t matter because after 20 years, the reit is literally free. For the next 20-30 years, it will still continue to generate dividends for his descendants (free money).
(3) Staying flat is already good in my opinion.

Reit is aka property play and at this moment, still quite robust. It is just like buying a HDB in 1990.

A 3 room HDB flat in Ang Mo Kio probably cost around $35,000. Today (after 35 years) will cost $400,000. Let’s assume that HDB cost $0 but has a lease of 60+ years. Rental income = $3000 x 12 x 60 =$2,160,000.00. Let’s assume we take a 50% haircut, it is still $1m+. This is the power of property play. REITs to me is same same but commercial property.

But someone will tell me. I put $35,000 in S&P500 for 99 years at > 10% gain, my $35,000 becomes $500million. Well, if it is that easy. Most would have sold it before 99 years. lol!

 

[fr33d0m]

Sorry, I didn’t manage to reply this.
(1) Obviously he didn’t buy in 2019 but much earlier
(2) Even if he bought at peak, it doesn’t matter because after 20 years, the reit is literally free. For the next 20-30 years, it will still continue to generate dividends for his descendants (free money).
(3) Staying flat is already good in my opinion.

Reit is aka property play and at this moment, still quite robust. It is just like buying a HDB in 1990.

A 3 room HDB flat in Ang Mo Kio probably cost around $35,000. Today (after 35 years) will cost $400,000. Let’s assume that HDB cost $0 but has a lease of 60+ years. Rental income = $3000 x 12 x 60 =$2,160,000.00. Let’s assume we take a 50% haircut, it is still $1m+. This is the power of property play. REITs to me is same same but commercial property.

But someone will tell me. I put $35,000 in S&P500 for 99 years at > 10% gain, my $35,000 becomes $500million. Well, if it is that easy. Most would have sold it before 99 years. lol!

staying flat is not bad with the condition that it pays out most of its earning as dividend, as it's the case for REITs. Also not a depreciating assets, which may not be the case for REITs.

I don't believe in REITs as a perpetual holding. It should be more of mid to slightly longer term play. 20 years, maybe. 50 years, hell no.

On the other hand, bond fund can be a perpetual holding. Though there are ebb and flow with interest rate, it will always going toward lower in the long term.

 

[Euqorab]

staying flat is not bad with the condition that it pays out most of its earning as dividend, as it's the case for REITs. Also not a depreciating assets, which may not be the case for REITs.

I don't believe in REITs as a perpetual holding. It should be more of mid to slightly longer term play. 20 years, maybe. 50 years, hell no.

On the other hand, bond fund can be a perpetual holding. Though there are ebb and flow with interest rate, it will always going toward lower in the long term.

I agree with you

underlying reits is the asset… asset not performing or lease expiring (as with the case of many industrial buildings with short lease), then big trouble…

borrowed too much or need to borrow to aei and what have you, then face with high interest environment, then also big trouble…

I experience this years ago when I need my money (blame myself for using up emergency funds), had to cut throat losses

Then what more, don’t get me started with the double whammy of meeting sampan reits

Well I hope the day won’t come where these companies don’t give dividends

I had enough from sph, starhub, fu yu, and even those sampan reits soilbuild reit included… pui

Many people are lurking around in this forum leeching knowledge from gurus here

but without understanding the basics and just gone on to their social media and spout their half baked knowledge

sometimes they just need hard lessons, such as meeting sampan reits like soilbuild, lippo and what have you…

the former? dropped like grapes and I held on the belief the dividends could allow me to break even. What happened? It never happened because the sponsor lowballed and privatised it!

the latter? No expalantions needed.

 

[Euqorab]

I agree with you

underlying reits is the asset… asset not performing or lease expiring (as with the case of many industrial buildings with short lease), then big trouble…

borrowed too much or need to borrow to aei and what have you, then face with high interest environment, then also big trouble…

I experience this years ago when I need my money (blame myself for using up emergency funds), had to cut throat losses

Then what more, don’t get me started with the double whammy of meeting sampan reits

In short

it either buy blue chip reit like cap, Fraser, maple and what have you and/or don’t put all eggs on reit and hope the dividends let your holding be freehold holding

that not the point of investing because too much uncertainties

By the way even if buy blue chip reit like I buyed Mapletree commercial last time, it suddenly backside itchy went to merge with north Asia trust, I also kena hammered by such actions with continued depressed unit price

I only have confident in Vivo Harbourfront business city areas, not whatever is in north asia.. did I have a choice? Yes but I didn’t vote against such actions because my holdings less than 10k$

 

[yslvlys]

staying flat is not bad with the condition that it pays out most of its earning as dividend, as it's the case for REITs. Also not a depreciating assets, which may not be the case for REITs.

I don't believe in REITs as a perpetual holding. It should be more of mid to slightly longer term play. 20 years, maybe. 50 years, hell no.

On the other hand, bond fund can be a perpetual holding. Though there are ebb and flow with interest rate, it will always going toward lower in the long term.

I agree with you

underlying reits is the asset… asset not performing or lease expiring (as with the case of many industrial buildings with short lease), then big trouble…

borrowed too much or need to borrow to aei and what have you, then face with high interest environment, then also big trouble…

I experience this years ago when I need my money (blame myself for using up emergency funds), had to cut throat losses

Then what more, don’t get me started with the double whammy of meeting sampan reits

That's why need to choose only good blue chip REITS, not sampan REITS. Also need to manage portfolio risk with asset allocation. Always have emergency funds. If hold for 20 years already most likely already breakeven and/or profitable, not much point to sell. Can just collect dividends till eternity or the REITS go bust (unlikely).

 

[Euqorab]

That's why need to choose only good blue chip REITS, not sampan REITS. Also need to manage portfolio risk with asset allocation. Always have emergency funds. If hold for 20 years already most likely already breakeven and/or profitable, not much point to sell. Can just collect dividends till eternity or the REITS go bust (unlikely).

Thanks guru
Having said so much I still believe in good reit and ignore temptations especially unknown intentions
You guys still very insulation to me

 

[DevilPlate]

staying flat is not bad with the condition that it pays out most of its earning as dividend, as it's the case for REITs. Also not a depreciating assets, which may not be the case for REITs.

I don't believe in REITs as a perpetual holding. It should be more of mid to slightly longer term play. 20 years, maybe. 50 years, hell no.

On the other hand, bond fund can be a perpetual holding. Though there are ebb and flow with interest rate, it will always going toward lower in the long term.

Yes bond fund like MBH can hold forever. However getting more perps which i dislike especially added during low interest rate environment like now.