General S-REITs Discussion Thread

[Andrew833]

I was not vested in both. Now also not vested in Manulife Reit.

Everytime we go AGM, no matter how unfair the resolution is, somehow always go through with high votes. The ESR-Sabana merger was like the only corporate action voted down. So it was very interesting.

Also learn new things eg how custodians vote on behalf of their holders.

Yes, majority will go through. Only situation like Sabana, one of the major shareholders QUARZ Capital and Black Crane Capital refuse to accept the merger.

 

[vsvs24]

Yes, majority will go through. Only situation like Sabana, one of the major shareholders QUARZ Capital and Black Crane Capital refuse to accept the merger.

They even bought more in order to vote it down.

But I thought the reasons they gave were valid.

Hope they pull through again this time with Manulife REIT

 

[Andrew833]

But let’s say even if rental is $2,000, then 20 years lo. Even if HDB is 50 year old, still got 30 years. But again nothing wrong to cash out if you have plans with the money

To be fair, both have pro and cons.
When old tenant leave, may need time for new tenant to come in, money loss during this time.
Tenant problem may cause increase of expenses. Etc…
What he does is use all the money to buy REITs, particularly Mapletree REITs which are the most stable. 5% dividend + potential capital gain during the period of investment. He don’t have to worry on other loss, if the stock market crash, he will know what to do since we been through it in 2020.

 

[Andrew833]

They even bought more in order to vote it down.

But I thought the reasons they gave were valid.

Hope they pull through again this time with Manulife REIT

Yes but for the ESR side, it’s an opportunity loss. I’m one of them

 

[elvintay07]

Aiya! No need to talk so much cock one la. How much can you lost buying a property at $2m. If one got balls and dare to spend these $2m on equities, can go ahead. But I think not many have balls to go all out on equities. Imagine you spend $2m on a stock then it went bankrupt. I never seen property drop to $0 one

But good to diversify. Got property, equities, reits etc then perfect

 

[zeroX26]

Aiya! No need to talk so much cock one la. How much can you lost buying a property at $2m. If one got balls and dare to spend these $2m on equities, can go ahead. But I think not many have balls to go all out on equities. Imagine you spend $2m on a stock then it went bankrupt. I never seen property drop to $0 one

But good to diversify. Got property, equities, reits etc then perfect

In all seriousness, do you have experience being a land lord b4, even if its just renting 1 room out? There's quite a fair bit of hidden cost which your paper simulation doesn't show one.

 

[havetheveryfun]

Aiya! No need to talk so much cock one la. How much can you lost buying a property at $2m. If one got balls and dare to spend these $2m on equities, can go ahead. But I think not many have balls to go all out on equities. Imagine you spend $2m on a stock then it went bankrupt. I never seen property drop to $0 one

But good to diversify. Got property, equities, reits etc then perfect

can whack on ETFs instead, ETFs 99% chance wont go to 0 or bankrupt

 

[elvintay07]

You go see where are the china etf, STI etf, ark etf etc.

can whack on ETFs instead, ETFs 99% chance wont go to 0 or bankrupt

 

[elvintay07]

In all seriousness, do you have experience being a land lord b4, even if its just renting 1 room out? There's quite a fair bit of hidden cost which your paper simulation doesn't show one.

Yes of course. I understand there is hidden cost. But what I am trying to say is don’t worry about all these small things. When you are young, focus on growing your portfolio.

Many ppl have different concepts but to me, I prefer a more diversify approach.
(1) Property not more than 2. 1 for self stay (renovate nice nice), 1 for investment. If you got 2, you have options. Can sell 1 when price is high and buy when price is low. Having 1 you don’t really have the flexibility
(2) Reits is good if you don’t want to manage your property. For those who has only 1 property, reits can be an interesting option. But have to be caution because of share dilution and also investing in the wrong reit
(3) Equities is a good mix into portfolio but will be volatile. When you retire, you won’t want ur etf to suddenly drop by 50-60% because of a huge market crash.
So no right or wrong. But no matter which option you take, there is no free lunch. You still have to spend time managing all ur portfolio.

 

[TehSi99]

Yes of course. I understand there is hidden cost. But what I am trying to say is don’t worry about all these small things. When you are young, focus on growing your portfolio.

Many ppl have different concepts but to me, I prefer a more diversify approach.
(1) Property not more than 2. 1 for self stay (renovate nice nice), 1 for investment. If you got 2, you have options. Can sell 1 when price is high and buy when price is low. Having 1 you don’t really have the flexibility
(2) Reits is good if you don’t want to manage your property. For those who has only 1 property, reits can be an interesting option. But have to be caution because of share dilution and also investing in the wrong reit
(3) Equities is a good mix into portfolio but will be volatile. When you retire, you won’t want ur etf to suddenly drop by 50-60% because of a huge market crash.
So no right or wrong. But no matter which option you take, there is no free lunch. You still have to spend time managing all ur portfolio.

Can also consider rule of 100 in investing.

 

[focus1974]

But let’s say even if rental is $2,000, then 20 years lo. Even if HDB is 50 year old, still got 30 years. But again nothing wrong to cash out if you have plans with the money

lets just say.. most people will fare better with property and collecting rental than investing in stocks and collecting dividends.

 

[DevilPlate]

In all seriousness, do you have experience being a land lord b4, even if its just renting 1 room out? There's quite a fair bit of hidden cost which your paper simulation doesn't show one.

A good rough calculation of nett rental yield for condo will be only taking 8 months of the rental divide by property price.

4 months cost which mainly include 1/2 month commission, property tax, maint fee, 1 month vacancy period for sourcing new tenant.

For HDB can use 9.5 months for every 1 year.

 

[DevilPlate]

Investing in properties is all about cashflow and finding the right property to buy.

Every month surely have unprofitable transactions even when property prices ATH.
https://www.asiaone.com/money/39-condo-units-sold-loss-february-biggest-268m?amp=

 

[elvintay07]

Investing in properties is all about cashflow and finding the right property to buy.

Every month surely have unprofitable transactions even when property prices ATH.
https://www.asiaone.com/money/39-condo-units-sold-loss-february-biggest-268m?amp=

This group of people probably lost money in everything they do. Just like in school, some exams is like a stroll in the park but you still see ppl failing that exam. If one lost money in every ventures, just put your money inside the bank

 

[focus1974]

Investing in properties is all about cashflow and finding the right property to buy.

Every month surely have unprofitable transactions even when property prices ATH.
https://www.asiaone.com/money/39-condo-units-sold-loss-february-biggest-268m?amp=

Property wisdom from a mostly inactive forum I went to last time.
The wisdom stood the test of time.. and I totally regret selling properties or not holding them.
I visited the forum in 2007.

The nugget of wisdom is called..

Singapore Properties are Always Bought, Never Sold!

once you sell.. you will regret big time.
from 1950s..til now.. it is true. Over long term... just like the US stock market (not SGX.hehe) ... it performs like clockwork until it doesnt. When? I donno, if you can convince yourself buy stocks for the long term based on history, then you should be more convinced buying sg properties over the long term.

 

[churnmaster]

Investing in properties is all about cashflow and finding the right property to buy.

Every month surely have unprofitable transactions even when property prices ATH.
https://www.asiaone.com/money/39-condo-units-sold-loss-february-biggest-268m?amp=

Interesting article. The original buyers seem to have had the FOMO moment when they bought the properties in the peak market.

 

[elvintay07]

Interesting article. The original buyers seem to have had the FOMO moment when they bought the properties in the peak market.

Quite strange how they will lose money after holding for 10 years. 1 thing I can think of is CCR property is really for investment. You can see ppl anyhow dispose and making a loss is peanuts to them because they have more opportunities for the money

 

[churnmaster]

Quite strange how they will lose money after holding for 10 years. 1 thing I can think of is CCR property is really for investment. You can see ppl anyhow dispose and making a loss is peanuts to them because they have more opportunities for the money

Well, everything boils down to timing. Best of assets bought at a wrong time will lead to notional / real losses.

In Singapore, we have seen lean periods (from 1996/97 to 2005/6 and more recently 2013/14 to 2017/18) in the property market.

But, as you said these investors are probably looking at better opportunities for their money now and thus sold these properties.

 

[elvintay07]

Well, everything boils down to timing. Best of assets bought at a wrong time will lead to notional / real losses.

In Singapore, we have seen lean periods (from 1996/97 to 2005/6 and more recently 2013/14 to 2017/18) in the property market.

But, as you said these investors are probably looking at better opportunities for their money now and thus sold these properties.

I would say buy the wrong thing rather than wrong timing. Just like those who bought sembcorp marine instead of apple. If buy wrong project, then simi timing also useless.
As investor, u need to be ready for all timing. Warren Buffet also can make money/ lose money in bull/ bear market. Quite common also. I believe property investors also same thing

 

[Dividends Warrior]

Business update from ParkwayLife. Not too shabby.