General S-REITs Discussion Thread

revhappy

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Your definitions seem to be all jumbled up and give the impression that u have encountered these financial terms somewhere, and then imposed your own interpretation on them without finding out their actual meanings.

Growth companies are not necessary the ones that don't need to generate profits immediately to pay dividends. Nvidia and Apple are examples of growth companies that are highly profitable.

And index investing is not growth investing. Most indices are a blend of growth and value stocks. There is also a large body of academic research and empirical studies dedicated to value investing through low-cost funds and ETFs.

And sure, REITs tend to be value stocks, with healthy cashflow, and in fact REITs performance are generally in-line with value stocks performance, so I have never said REITs are necessary bad companies to invest in. My point of contention is people using dividend payout as a (primary) criterion for selecting stocks, which was shown to have no bearings on stock performance. Using Ben Felix analogy, choosing stock that pay dividends is no different from choosing only stocks with a name that start with A in your portfolio. There are great companies with name that start with A, but it doesn't mean the criterion is meaningful.

The other issue is that most REIT investors are ultimately stocks pickers, which is a fool's errand, although i understand most people have a cognitive bias to think they are special and better than most other people. And even if you put in a lot of effort and build a "diversified" portfolio of 10-20 REITs, you are still effectively betting on the real estate sector and subject to concentration risk.

And yea, there are many schools of thought and investment approaches, but some are backed by data and research, others are based on cumulation of misconceptions and appeals to psychological satisfactions.
In the end, everyone follows their own investment journey and the aim here is not who get the maximum returns with the least effort. Everyone has a personal preference to investing based on what suits them. You prefer index investing and your basis is past performance and if that is sufficient for you then good for you. But that may not be sufficient for others. By stock picking they are not trying to beat the index. They are just trying to invest in companies directly which appeal to them. What is the problem?
 

Mephist0pheLes

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In the end, everyone follows their own investment journey and the aim here is not who get the maximum returns with the least effort. Everyone has a personal preference to investing based on what suits them. You prefer index investing and your basis is past performance and if that is sufficient for you then good for you. But that may not be sufficient for others. By stock picking they are not trying to beat the index. They are just trying to invest in companies directly which appeal to them. What is the problem?
I think there are alot of problems, but if the argument for selecting stocks is "i like it" then of cos there's nothing i can say to refute that.
 

DevilPlate

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I think there are alot of problems, but if the argument for selecting stocks is "i like it" then of cos there's nothing i can say to refute that.
No point arguing and trying to win or convince who has the best strategy.

U based on simi empirical data…..However, past performance is not an indicator of future performances…..this disclaimer is way too commonly seen whahaha
 

sohguanh

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No point arguing and trying to win or convince who has the best strategy.
Relax after a while you know some reader investment preferences in MM. After sometime no need to engage any further since some are hard fixed to their own investment strategy. If you read my posts I share but I never comment bad as I respect their strategy even if it differs from mine.

This remind me back when FSMOne still have forums. During that time ETF vs mutual fund was great debate many pages but during that time ETF investment was not so easily available at least based on the platform available during that time. It is only much later FSMOne included ETF. And now I have them both as it is now more easily accessible through various platform and both have their pro and con.
 

stanlawj

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The other issue is that most REIT investors are ultimately stocks pickers, which is a fool's errand
Are you dissing stock pickers? By the way, REITS investors cannot sit back and just collect dividend from rental income and expect to coast. There is no free lunch.

If residential property owners have to contend with troublesome tenants & repairs, REITS investors have to contend with management and public market psychology. Choose the game to suit your personality.

Fire incident vs market gap down
Tenant disappear vs share placement at discount
Bank recall loan vs insider fraud
Structural damage vs asset impairment charge

Your residential property has alot of risks too especially if the bank still holds the deed.
 
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limster

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Are you dissing stock pickers? By the way, REITS investors cannot sit back and just collect dividend from rental income and expect to coast. There is no free lunch.
Some people think that there is only one way to invest and that everyone that don't follow their way is wrong. :ROFLMAO:.

If these people are correct, then most of the financial sector shouldn't exist...
 

revhappy

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Relax after a while you know some reader investment preferences in MM. After sometime no need to engage any further since some are hard fixed to their own investment strategy. If you read my posts I share but I never comment bad as I respect their strategy even if it differs from mine.

This remind me back when FSMOne still have forums. During that time ETF vs mutual fund was great debate many pages but during that time ETF investment was not so easily available at least based on the platform available during that time. It is only much later FSMOne included ETF. And now I have them both as it is now more easily accessible through various platform and both have their pro and con.
I and @churnmaster came from FSM forums :)
That time it was crazy. FSM used to say bad about US stocks and super gungho about Asia stocks and China stocks and most people were buying Asia funds like crazy. This was around 2010-2011 period when Asia and China had a long bull market and US had stagnated for a decade.
 

revhappy

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The funny thing is most of the pages in this thread is filled with for and counter arguments from Non REIT investors. The seasoned REIT investors like @Dividends Warrior are not even bothered by this. :)
 

DevilPlate

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The funny thing is most of the pages in this thread is filled with for and counter arguments from Non REIT investors. The seasoned REIT investors like @Dividends Warrior are not even bothered by this. :)
He esteemed blogger mah…..no point downgrade himself to argue with naysayers right?
All these banter is for me to kill time de whahahaha

Js like i noticed some Minister FB page, they js ignore naysayers comments :)
 

Mephist0pheLes

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Are you dissing stock pickers? By the way, REITS investors cannot sit back and just collect dividend from rental income and expect to coast. There is no free lunch.

If residential property owners have to contend with troublesome tenants & repairs, REITS investors have to contend with management and public market psychology. Choose the game to suit your personality.

Fire incident vs market gap down
Tenant disappear vs share placement at discount
Bank recall loan vs insider fraud
Structural damage vs asset impairment charge

Your residential property has alot of risks too especially if the bank still holds the deed.

i dun think i need to diss stock pickers, there are even more evidences of stock pickers doing poorly relative to the market, but like i said, most stock-pickers think they are the special 1% that outperforms the market.
 

DevilPlate

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i dun think i need to diss stock pickers, there are even more evidences of stock pickers doing poorly relative to the market, but like i said, most stock-pickers think they are the special 1% that outperforms the market.
Maybe some aspire to be Adam Khoo?
Stock pick world bestest top 1% companies :)

I everytime see him show off his million dollar brokerage accts jin satki sia
 

DevilPlate

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I and @churnmaster came from FSM forums :)
That time it was crazy. FSM used to say bad about US stocks and super gungho about Asia stocks and China stocks and most people were buying Asia funds like crazy. This was around 2010-2011 period when Asia and China had a long bull market and US had stagnated for a decade.
totally relatable!
in 2008/09, i saw USD/SGD and SPY/QQQ chart i faintzzz hahaha.
At that time i really believe STI can surpass its previous peak upon recovery but it never…..
 
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stanlawj

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i dun think i need to diss stock pickers, there are even more evidences of stock pickers doing poorly relative to the market, but like i said, most stock-pickers think they are the special 1% that outperforms the market.
Well,... you become what you think of yourself.

Obviously you do not know how the game is played.

By the way, Public Service Announcement for REITS investors: on 24th Apr, Gabriel Yap say look at the FTSE ST REIT Index. I just learnt that this index existed. Then on 29 Aug, he makes another video asking whether is it time to buy? I have no idea... anyone knows?
 
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d5dude

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They are 2 different investment approaches. Growth investing is when companies dont need to make profit now to pay dividends. Index investing is pretty much growth investing.

Indices are not all the same so its definitely not true that index investing is all about growth. Many indices have very little growth and the index heavyweights in these indices tend to be large dividend payers.


But dividend investing is about picking stocks which are making profits NOW and not some promise of profits in future. Dividend investors typically put lots of effort and look into the company financials and then see if they have a positive cashflow which is paid out as dividends. So dividend investors seek solace in the real cashflow.

Your philosophy about index investing is totally different. We must respect different schools of thought and try to understand their perspective.

Positive cashflow can either be reinvested, paid out as dividends or used to buy back stock, so dividends pretty much has nothing to do with whether a company is generating strong cashflows or not. Also I dun think its right to assume that "dividend investors" are somehow always equipped with the skills to pick out the companies with good future positive cashflows (emphasis on FUTURE since past cashflows cannot pay out future divs), just as there are bad "growth investors", there are many bad "dividend investors" out there too.

My personal view is there is no such thing as a growth or dividend investor, there are only good and bad investors, dividend payout policy is just another financial metric (among others) that investors use to screen for good companies that are worth investing in.
 

TehSi99

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I wonder what why dividend haters think that is their mission in life to go to threads discussing dividends like this S-REIT thread to spread their message that dividends are irrelevant. 😅

there are many different investing strategies, dividend investing is only one of them. if you DYODD and choose a different strategy thats fine, but I don't go around attacking investing strategies that I don't like :cool:

The only comment I have is real successful dividend investor can show their success. Otherwise, please show me one successful investor who is non dividend investor.
 

Mephist0pheLes

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The only comment I have is real successful dividend investor can show their success. Otherwise, please show me one successful investor who is non dividend investor.
have u heard of this person called warren buffet? i heard he is quite a successful investor
 

limster

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DevilPlate

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Indices are not all the same so its definitely not true that index investing is all about growth. Many indices have very little growth and the index heavyweights in these indices tend to be large dividend payers.




Positive cashflow can either be reinvested, paid out as dividends or used to buy back stock, so dividends pretty much has nothing to do with whether a company is generating strong cashflows or not. Also I dun think its right to assume that "dividend investors" are somehow always equipped with the skills to pick out the companies with good future positive cashflows (emphasis on FUTURE since past cashflows cannot pay out future divs), just as there are bad "growth investors", there are many bad "dividend investors" out there too.

My personal view is there is no such thing as a growth or dividend investor, there are only good and bad investors, dividend payout policy is just another financial metric (among others) that investors use to screen for good companies that are worth investing in.
Those angmor indices pays lesser dividends as investors favors share buybacks than dividend payout for obvious reasons.

So talk one big round…..basically 2 major sch of thoughts lah….

Index investing Vs Stock picking

Long term DCA index investing is actually a discipline. Not many people can follow through.

Likewise at property subforum, mostly buy sell flip for quick profits within 5-10years (including 4years of construction) or shorter as long they sit on decent profits.

Very rarely hear investors who subscribe to buy hold and rent out until mortgage fully paid (only me i guess whahahaha). Similar theory to save a big portion of yr salary and DCA to index funds until retirement.
 
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