General S-REITs Discussion Thread

[direbmem]

I'm sure warren like the billions of dividends his companies gives out. I think when pple say they are dividends investors most of the time doesn't mean they only use dividend payouts as the only metric to make the investment la. Just that they prefer stocks to provide income/ cashflow. Just like pple buy property for rental and price appreciation. If the property cannot be rented out, don't think anybody will want to buy? Same mindset for property investors and many others when they buy stocks, want capital gain and income. But doesn't mean ONLY use the dividend payout to value or decide which stock to buy...

 

[d5dude]

Those angmor indices pays lesser dividends as investors favors share buybacks than dividend payout for obvious reasons.

Not really... FTSE100's dividend yield is nearly 4%, UK is considered angmo or Asian?

So talk one big round…..basically 2 major sch of thoughts lah….

Index investing Vs Stock picking

Yes its basically pick your own stocks (active) or index to a certain benchmark (passive) and accept market returns, theres no such thing as "dividend investing" or "growth investing". Many stocks pay dividends and they are able to grow their earnings at the same time, so how do we classify these stocks? Also many active investors hold all sorts of stocks, both div payers and non-div payers.

In the end only total returns matter, the kind of stocks invested in or strategy employed to obtain the returns are irrelevant, outside of indexing none of the other strategies are easily replicable anyway...

Long term DCA index investing is actually a discipline. Not many people can follow through.

Likewise at property subforum, mostly buy sell flip for quick profits within 5-10years (including 4years of construction) or shorter as long they sit on decent profits.

Very rarely hear investors who subscribe to buy hold and rent out until mortgage fully paid (only me i guess whahahaha). Similar theory to save a big portion of yr salary and DCA to index funds until retirement.

Thats hard to say, some people find it easy, while others find it tough to invest long term in anything. There are people who feel the urge to trade in and out of the stock market everyday, if thats their retirement plan and it works then more power to them, not going to judge.

 

[d5dude]

I'm sure warren like the billions of dividends his companies gives out. I think when pple say they are dividends investors most of the time doesn't mean they only use dividend payouts as the only metric to make the investment la. Just that they prefer stocks to provide income/ cashflow. Just like pple buy property for rental and price appreciation. If the property cannot be rented out, don't think anybody will want to buy? Same mindset for property investors and many others when they buy stocks, want capital gain and income. But doesn't mean ONLY use the dividend payout to value or decide which stock to buy...

But Buffet doesnt call himself a "dividend investor", he also has no preference for companies that pay dividends, in fact he has publicly stated that he loves the fact that Apple reduces the total share count via stock buybacks, because that boosts his stake in the company over time. And btw Apple has a "massive" 0.51% dividend yield and it makes up 40% of Berkshire's portfolio.

Agree that div payout is a useful financial metric (just as rental yield is for property) but I dunno who came up with this superfluous nomenclature of labeling an investor based on a single financial metric, I'm sure most investors arent looking at only one financial metric (div payout for example), so it makes no sense to label any investor based on this.

 

[TehSi99]

have u heard of this person called warren buffet? i heard he is quite a successful investor

Not sure if you get my point. If you use him as a benchmark, there is no point for discussion.

 

[limster]

Not sure if you get my point. If you use him as a benchmark, there is no point for discussion.

yup, like that I might as well as 'have you heard of ASSI, I heard he collected $200k dividends last year and some obscure youtubers made 2 youtube videos about it' (I am not going to post links and give them click count)

 

[direbmem]

But Buffet doesnt call himself a "dividend investor", he also has no preference for companies that pay dividends, in fact he has publicly stated that he loves the fact that Apple reduces the total share count via stock buybacks, because that boosts his stake in the company over time. And btw Apple has a "massive" 0.51% dividend yield and it makes up 40% of Berkshire's portfolio.

Agree that div payout is a useful financial metric (just as rental yield is for property) but I dunno who came up with this superfluous nomenclature of labeling an investor based on a single financial metric, I'm sure most investors arent looking at only one financial metric (div payout for example), so it makes no sense to label any investor based on this.

Ya la so when people say they are dividends investors, probably they mean they love dividends ba. I believe no one will like dividends when the stock is bad on all other metrics. Love dividends doesn't mean is dividends investors, whatever that may mean. Personally I prefer stocks that give dividends, but doesn't mean I blindly invest in stocks that pays dividends. Then if you tell me if a stock don't give dividend can 10x within 2 years, then of course I would love to invest too (but who would have such a crystal ball?).

 

[stanlawj]

REITS investors, .... I finally know the secret.
just watch the 10-yr bond yields: US and Japan (JGB).

This thing need to come down. If not, REITS all continue to get slaughtered.

JGB10-yr yield is steadily climbing up.
UST10-yr yield... suppose to top out but Powell only cares about 2% inflation target. Meaning UST10-yr yield still has room to run up.

 

[demoforce1]

REITS investors, .... I finally know the secret.
just watch the 10-yr bond yields: US and Japan (JGB).

This thing need to come down. If not, REITS all continue to get slaughtered.

JGB10-yr yield is steadily climbing up.
UST10-yr yield... suppose to top out but Powell only cares about 2% inflation target. Meaning UST10-yr yield still has room to run up.

can share the link?

 

[stanlawj]

can share the link?

https://ycharts.com/indicators/10_year_treasury_ratehttps://ycharts.com/indicators/japan_10_year_government_bond_interest_rate
or just google. This is public info.

 

[TehSi99]

Those angmor indices pays lesser dividends as investors favors share buybacks than dividend payout for obvious reasons.

So talk one big round…..basically 2 major sch of thoughts lah….

Index investing Vs Stock picking

Long term DCA index investing is actually a discipline. Not many people can follow through.

Likewise at property subforum, mostly buy sell flip for quick profits within 5-10years (including 4years of construction) or shorter as long they sit on decent profits.

Very rarely hear investors who subscribe to buy hold and rent out until mortgage fully paid (only me i guess whahahaha). Similar theory to save a big portion of yr salary and DCA to index funds until retirement.

Property investments are normally on leverage, means you borrow money and pay interest monthly.
If fully paid and then sell, then basically there is no leverage and you fully paid the interest.

Not sure about the spread between interest and rent collected now.

Just my thoughts.

 

[DevilPlate]

Property investments are normally on leverage, means you borrow money and pay interest monthly.
If fully paid and then sell, then basically there is no leverage and you fully paid the interest.

Not sure about the spread between interest and rent collected now.

Just my thoughts.

For property once fully paid, means u start to enjoy the fruits of yr labor for past 20-30years
Can choose to sell or keep as cashcow. As some have said, no free lunch.....tenants helps to "DCA" but u goto manage yr property and upkeep periodically.

As for nett rental yield vs mortgages rates, right now most pte properties nett yield are lower by around 1%. So really bang on capital appreciation nia....else invest elsewhere

Imo if u are earning good income and under 40yo, can try to study the property market now and at least get yourself prepared once opportunity arises. (spotted a good undervalued resale unit and/or when u feel interest rates starts to come down)

Too much work, no interest? just monitor stock market lor haha

 

[d5dude]

Ya la so when people say they are dividends investors, probably they mean they love dividends ba. I believe no one will like dividends when the stock is bad on all other metrics. Love dividends doesn't mean is dividends investors, whatever that may mean. Personally I prefer stocks that give dividends, but doesn't mean I blindly invest in stocks that pays dividends. Then if you tell me if a stock don't give dividend can 10x within 2 years, then of course I would love to invest too (but who would have such a crystal ball?).

I think its not too productive to waste time on nomenclature, its not going to help anyone in the end. One can choose to call himself anything but in the end only the P&L matters.

I've done some work on dividend yield/policy and what they mean for future returns, my conclusion is that its a legit stock screening metric, but like every other tool out there its not the holy grail (nothing is), its really no better than FCF yield, PEG, etc.

 

[d5dude]

REITS investors, .... I finally know the secret.
just watch the 10-yr bond yields: US and Japan (JGB).

This thing need to come down. If not, REITS all continue to get slaughtered.

JGB10-yr yield is steadily climbing up.
UST10-yr yield... suppose to top out but Powell only cares about 2% inflation target. Meaning UST10-yr yield still has room to run up.

I think its not a whole lot different from non-REIT stocks, there is going to be huge dispersion. I see many REITs getting killed but some are actually not doing too poorly, probably because these REITs have better balance sheets and better pricing power when it comes to leasing out their properties.

Its the same thing for tech stocks, some are languishing near multi year lows while others are trading near multi year highs or even making fresh record highs e.g Nvidia.

 

[stanlawj]

I think its not a whole lot different from non-REIT stocks, there is going to be huge dispersion. I see many REITs getting killed but some are actually not doing too poorly, probably because these REITs have better balance sheets and better pricing power when it comes to leasing out their properties.

Its the same thing for tech stocks, some are languishing near multi year lows while others are trading near multi year highs or even making fresh record highs e.g Nvidia.

You're probably right,... Parkway Life REIT (hospital) and Keppel DC REIT (datacentre) seems to the safe haven for funds/investors forced to buy REITS. I suppose some insurance funds and pension funds are forced to buy REITS as part of investment strategy.

 

[DevilPlate]

You're probably right,... Parkway Life REIT (hospital) and Keppel DC REIT (datacentre) seems to the safe haven for funds/investors forced to buy REITS. I suppose some insurance funds and pension funds are forced to buy REITS as part of investment strategy.

Forced?

i believe pension funds must have fixed income allocation (such as sovereign bonds) but reits shd fall under stocks?

 

[sohguanh]

You're probably right,... Parkway Life REIT (hospital) and Keppel DC REIT (datacentre) seems to the safe haven for funds/investors forced to buy REITS. I suppose some insurance funds and pension funds are forced to buy REITS as part of investment strategy.

I would think for some funds it is mandated to provide monthly payout so if you are the fund manager won't you consider some "fail-safe" investment instruments that can generate periodic income so as to pay the investors? REIT are mandated to give up to 90% which is very high indeed. And some funds dip into the capital to give out instead etc. So just put oneself in the shoes of a fund manager. The fund you managed are like REIT mandated to give out monthly payout how would you take the millions/billions to invest to ensure monthly consistent payout and at the same time eke out positive capital gains in the long run?

 

[stanlawj]

Forced?

i believe pension funds must have fixed income allocation (such as sovereign bonds) but reits shd fall under stocks?

Pension funds don't buy the stock directly. They give the money to fund managers and pay them to do the task. So one can't see the pension fund name, but only see the asset manager name in the shareholder list.

 

[DevilPlate]

Pension funds don't buy the stock directly. They give the money to fund managers and pay them to do the task. So one can't see the pension fund name, but only see the asset manager name in the shareholder list.

I think similar to our GIC funds? Someone have to give a mandate (asset allocation pie)?
I gained abit more clarity after following NKS social media haha

 

[stanlawj]

New record high JGB-10yr yields: 0.70%

Japan stocks are down!!

GIC is selling its Grade-A Tokyo office tower!

Smart money sees what's coming to Japan real estate !

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/in...ighs-sale-tokyo-office-tower-more-us2-billion

 

[TehSi99]

All the reits under STI components in red and STI in slight red but our 3 banks in green holding up STI.
Unbelievable.